2023 Sportscar Thread (WEC, IMSA, NLS, GT World Challenge)
Discussion
I don't think we can assume that both Toyotas will have a trouble free run over the 24hrs, so although they are favourites it is not a foregone conclusion.
Perhaps Peugeot's lack of wing means it will burn everyone off down the Mulsanne, but even I am not foolish enough to put money on that.
Perhaps Peugeot's lack of wing means it will burn everyone off down the Mulsanne, but even I am not foolish enough to put money on that.
I think, like most teams Peugeot have designed a car that will be quick at le Mans over other places, but it has not really been quick anywhere, the Ferrari si the closest to Toyota pace wise, but even yesterday was still a second or so off the ultimate pace of Toyota which you hardly ever see anyway!
I love the Peugeot, it looks amazing and I have always loved unique approaches and hoe they can get it to work but I fear by next year they might be redesigning it!
I love the Peugeot, it looks amazing and I have always loved unique approaches and hoe they can get it to work but I fear by next year they might be redesigning it!
No tyre warmers is very dangerous for some minor virtue signalling.
As commentary points out there is far more energy expended on new chassis etc and flying replacements around.
They make very little of the 100% renewable fuel in WEC
Warmers must be pretty small compared to air freight and sea freight plus all the personnel etc
Solar panels on OEM trucks and HGV motor homes for some power packs for warmers?
Great race on the whole at Spa though.
Can’t see F1 drivers putting up with risks of no tyre warmers
As commentary points out there is far more energy expended on new chassis etc and flying replacements around.
They make very little of the 100% renewable fuel in WEC
Warmers must be pretty small compared to air freight and sea freight plus all the personnel etc
Solar panels on OEM trucks and HGV motor homes for some power packs for warmers?
Great race on the whole at Spa though.
Can’t see F1 drivers putting up with risks of no tyre warmers
LukeBrown66 said:
I think, like most teams Peugeot have designed a car that will be quick at le Mans over other places, but it has not really been quick anywhere, the Ferrari si the closest to Toyota pace wise, but even yesterday was still a second or so off the ultimate pace of Toyota which you hardly ever see anyway!
I love the Peugeot, it looks amazing and I have always loved unique approaches and hoe they can get it to work but I fear by next year they might be redesigning it!
35 years ago this Peugeot-powered car managed to hit 400kph on the (chicaneless) Mulsanne.I love the Peugeot, it looks amazing and I have always loved unique approaches and hoe they can get it to work but I fear by next year they might be redesigning it!
Oddly enough it wouldn’t look dramatically out of place on a contemporary WEC grid..
Some Gump said:
moffspeed said:
35 years ago this Peugeot-powered car managed to hit 400kph on the (chicaneless) Mulsanne.
Oddly enough it wouldn’t look dramatically out of place on a contemporary WEC grid..
Are you saying the current HyperCars are unreliable? Oddly enough it wouldn’t look dramatically out of place on a contemporary WEC grid..
A decade earlier than the WM it was the Japanese who designed a car that, theoretically, should have been a rocket down the Mulsanne…
Slightly odd this, but bear with me.
So, a national championship, running only GT cars can have and use tyre heaters, which they all do at horrendous expense.
But, the world championship, with a bigger grid, far faster cars, multiple classes and probably the biggest championship in the world outside F1 can not?
WTF
So, a national championship, running only GT cars can have and use tyre heaters, which they all do at horrendous expense.
But, the world championship, with a bigger grid, far faster cars, multiple classes and probably the biggest championship in the world outside F1 can not?
WTF
LukeBrown66 said:
Slightly odd this, but bear with me.
So, a national championship, running only GT cars can have and use tyre heaters, which they all do at horrendous expense.
But, the world championship, with a bigger grid, far faster cars, multiple classes and probably the biggest championship in the world outside F1 can not?
WTF
Because SRO GT3 championships generally use heaters, especially in cooler climates. GTWC Asia doesn't. SRO GT4 championships generally don't heat but as BGT is mixed it would not be safe to have the slower class without heaters.So, a national championship, running only GT cars can have and use tyre heaters, which they all do at horrendous expense.
But, the world championship, with a bigger grid, far faster cars, multiple classes and probably the biggest championship in the world outside F1 can not?
WTF
The expense is not horrendous, by the way. Far from it. Diesel heaters will run for the better part of 10 hours on 15 litres on fuel, heating three or four sets of tyres simultaneously. Warming up cold tyres on track takes 3-4 laps on a good day, at around 3-3.5 litres of fuel per lap, so let's say a minimum of 9 litres of fuel per set of tyres used in each session. During a BGT practice/qualifying day they'll effectively start 5 sets of tyres from cold, or 45 litres of fuel used driving around and warming the tyres. That's quite a lot of expense before you factor in the extra KM of component life you're using, at about €30 per km for a GT3 car.
You miss the point
Why does a national series, maybe 3 or 4 levels below WEC do it, yet the primary endurance racing series int he world doesn't
it caused no end of problems at Spa last weekend, could easily do so at le Mans too.
Yet a series run largely for amateurs runs it!
I was staggered at the expense on show yesterday, I mean some of it is rather crass actually!
Why does a national series, maybe 3 or 4 levels below WEC do it, yet the primary endurance racing series int he world doesn't
it caused no end of problems at Spa last weekend, could easily do so at le Mans too.
Yet a series run largely for amateurs runs it!
I was staggered at the expense on show yesterday, I mean some of it is rather crass actually!
I suppose there’s an argument that, like traction control and abs, tyre warmers are more needed with a lower level of driver, it was ridiculous at times at Spa last weekend though, and tyre warmers are a negligible part of the carbon footprint of a world championship, especially one which is expected to start moving stuff around by air freight next year
LukeBrown66 said:
You miss the point
Why does a national series, maybe 3 or 4 levels below WEC do it, yet the primary endurance racing series int he world doesn't
it caused no end of problems at Spa last weekend, could easily do so at le Mans too.
Yet a series run largely for amateurs runs it!
I was staggered at the expense on show yesterday, I mean some of it is rather crass actually!
Because SRO writes the regulations for British GT, GT World Challenge Europe and GT World Challenge America, not the FIA. A Pro Am championship is the perfect place for heaters because the Am drivers need the confidence heated tyres give them at the start of a stint.Why does a national series, maybe 3 or 4 levels below WEC do it, yet the primary endurance racing series int he world doesn't
it caused no end of problems at Spa last weekend, could easily do so at le Mans too.
Yet a series run largely for amateurs runs it!
I was staggered at the expense on show yesterday, I mean some of it is rather crass actually!
By the way, British GT is not 3-4 levels below WEC. For the GT3 teams it is maybe one level. Bear in mind that some of Europe's top factory drivers and teams race in BGT - Jules, Lello etc - and that teams like Barwell and Garage 59 have had tremendous success in GTWC while the Beechdean Aston is of course run by Prodrive, who have won WEC in the very recent past. Any of these teams could comfortably step into the WEC paddock.
I don't understand what you mean by the crass expense comment. This is one of the top two championships in the UK, alongside BTCC, and it's far from cheap. Presentation has to be at the top level.
By the way you didn't acknowlege my paragraph that heaters are not horrendously expensive.
Edited by Ahonen on Sunday 7th May 21:19
I would argue that WEC is considerably higher in terms of manufacturer involvement, it is only one step from F1. The vast majority of drivers in British GT are rich amateurs. there are plenty in WEC too, but I do not think anyone would argue that British GT is several steps away from WEC, If I wanted to get there I wold be doing GTWC first, then ELMS then WEC.
Regarding the heaters, I think they look a bit crass in this modern era, that is all, I was walking around that paddock and the sheer amount of money on display with trucks, tyres, gear, staff was rather staggering for what is basically a national series.
I had been in the same paddock a few weeks earlier for BSB a similar level series and that seems to be a little more cosy, more how can we say friendly
I got a few looks of "what are you doing back here" in the GT paddock, not in BSB where people would say hello, smile etc.
This is all relative of course. But I am simply saying what I saw, and I think to be honest Ratel needs to maybe look at this, he runs several global series and maybe you need to be talking to Pirelli!
WRC got rid of this donkeys years go, so why can GT racing not/,
Regarding the heaters, I think they look a bit crass in this modern era, that is all, I was walking around that paddock and the sheer amount of money on display with trucks, tyres, gear, staff was rather staggering for what is basically a national series.
I had been in the same paddock a few weeks earlier for BSB a similar level series and that seems to be a little more cosy, more how can we say friendly
I got a few looks of "what are you doing back here" in the GT paddock, not in BSB where people would say hello, smile etc.
This is all relative of course. But I am simply saying what I saw, and I think to be honest Ratel needs to maybe look at this, he runs several global series and maybe you need to be talking to Pirelli!
WRC got rid of this donkeys years go, so why can GT racing not/,
LukeBrown66 said:
I would argue that WEC is considerably higher in terms of manufacturer involvement, it is only one step from F1. The vast majority of drivers in British GT are rich amateurs. there are plenty in WEC too, but I do not think anyone would argue that British GT is several steps away from WEC, If I wanted to get there I wold be doing GTWC first, then ELMS then WEC.
Regarding the heaters, I think they look a bit crass in this modern era, that is all, I was walking around that paddock and the sheer amount of money on display with trucks, tyres, gear, staff was rather staggering for what is basically a national series.
I had been in the same paddock a few weeks earlier for BSB a similar level series and that seems to be a little more cosy, more how can we say friendly
I got a few looks of "what are you doing back here" in the GT paddock, not in BSB where people would say hello, smile etc.
This is all relative of course. But I am simply saying what I saw, and I think to be honest Ratel needs to maybe look at this, he runs several global series and maybe you need to be talking to Pirelli!
WRC got rid of this donkeys years go, so why can GT racing not/,
I thought you were in favour of tyre warmers?Regarding the heaters, I think they look a bit crass in this modern era, that is all, I was walking around that paddock and the sheer amount of money on display with trucks, tyres, gear, staff was rather staggering for what is basically a national series.
I had been in the same paddock a few weeks earlier for BSB a similar level series and that seems to be a little more cosy, more how can we say friendly
I got a few looks of "what are you doing back here" in the GT paddock, not in BSB where people would say hello, smile etc.
This is all relative of course. But I am simply saying what I saw, and I think to be honest Ratel needs to maybe look at this, he runs several global series and maybe you need to be talking to Pirelli!
WRC got rid of this donkeys years go, so why can GT racing not/,
LukeBrown66 said:
I would argue that WEC is considerably higher in terms of manufacturer involvement, it is only one step from F1. The vast majority of drivers in British GT are rich amateurs. there are plenty in WEC too, but I do not think anyone would argue that British GT is several steps away from WEC, If I wanted to get there I wold be doing GTWC first, then ELMS then WEC.
Regarding the heaters, I think they look a bit crass in this modern era, that is all, I was walking around that paddock and the sheer amount of money on display with trucks, tyres, gear, staff was rather staggering for what is basically a national series.
You missed my point, which was that the top GT3 teams in BGT are good enough to be in a WEC paddock. After all, TF Sport were in BGT only a few years ago and they do very well in WEC. Remember that all GT cars in WEC have Am drivers - the Pro class ended last year.Regarding the heaters, I think they look a bit crass in this modern era, that is all, I was walking around that paddock and the sheer amount of money on display with trucks, tyres, gear, staff was rather staggering for what is basically a national series.
I told you before that this is one of the top two series in the UK so of course there is going to be an impressive display in terms of trucks, garage set-ups and equipment. Running a modern GT3 car is not cheap or easy and it requires equipment and staff.
I'm a bit bemused as to why you are okay with tyre heating as long as blankets are used but not the much cheaper tyre tents. You want the teams to spend even more money, purely for aesthetics?
I remain unconvinced that 4 or 5 of these portaloo things with dirty great electric heaters or diesel ones blowing hot air everywhere are cheaper than tyre blankets!
it would not be hard to restrict the use of any of this stuff, say only a couple of sets of blankets, otherwise you have to use cold tyres.
The point simply being that either WEC are going to have to get used to it, or bail on the idea and bring them back, I am not keen on them at all, anything to reduce footprint and unnecessary expense, the tyre manufacturers could make tyres that switch on better I'm sure.
Personally I think it adds to the challenge, if a little unsafe.
it would not be hard to restrict the use of any of this stuff, say only a couple of sets of blankets, otherwise you have to use cold tyres.
The point simply being that either WEC are going to have to get used to it, or bail on the idea and bring them back, I am not keen on them at all, anything to reduce footprint and unnecessary expense, the tyre manufacturers could make tyres that switch on better I'm sure.
Personally I think it adds to the challenge, if a little unsafe.
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