2023 Sportscar Thread (WEC, IMSA, NLS, GT World Challenge)
Discussion
flatlandsman said:
Not a bad final round in Bahrain, some idiotic driving early on in ypercar, some daft stuff between the Ferrari guys. but Toyota took the mick really, miles ahead.
Great win for the Dames in GTAm, finally getting some luck and also taking some pressure late on, amazing stuff.
Great win for Iron DamesGreat win for the Dames in GTAm, finally getting some luck and also taking some pressure late on, amazing stuff.
After an entire year with rival manufacturers BOP is still allowing Toyota to win at a canter
A shame Jota got the drive through, would have been a comfortable podium otherwise.
I’m not sure what is going on at Penske, but they shouldn’t be being outpaced that easily by a customer team
Porsche should bring DaCosta into the works WEC team, not fob him off to FE, what an absolute waste
I disagree he has proved himself to be rash in WEC, not a quality that is going to work. I think they have better drivers lined up, rumour is F1 guys, which is not always the best bet, but teams think F1 always means the best.
Felix is a very aggressive man like Felipe Alberquerque and that is not always the best quality in endurance, Estre has had to calm down too.
Jota have been in WEC more recently, understand the rules, tyres perhaps a little better so are able to maybe move quicker and with less restraint than Penske, who maybe also spent more time working in the USA (which eventually proved worthwhile)
Felix is a very aggressive man like Felipe Alberquerque and that is not always the best quality in endurance, Estre has had to calm down too.
Jota have been in WEC more recently, understand the rules, tyres perhaps a little better so are able to maybe move quicker and with less restraint than Penske, who maybe also spent more time working in the USA (which eventually proved worthwhile)
freedman said:
Great win for Iron Dames
After an entire year with rival manufacturers BOP is still allowing Toyota to win at a canter
A shame Jota got the drive through, would have been a comfortable podium otherwise.
I’m not sure what is going on at Penske, but they shouldn’t be being outpaced that easily by a customer team
Porsche should bring DaCosta into the works WEC team, not fob him off to FE, what an absolute waste
According to a story on the Porsche Instagram the Penske Porsche's were having issues with various sensors (didn't say which ones) and the air con system.After an entire year with rival manufacturers BOP is still allowing Toyota to win at a canter
A shame Jota got the drive through, would have been a comfortable podium otherwise.
I’m not sure what is going on at Penske, but they shouldn’t be being outpaced that easily by a customer team
Porsche should bring DaCosta into the works WEC team, not fob him off to FE, what an absolute waste
flatlandsman said:
I disagree he has proved himself to be rash in WEC, not a quality that is going to work. I think they have better drivers lined up, rumour is F1 guys, which is not always the best bet, but teams think F1 always means the best.
Felix is a very aggressive man like Felipe Alberquerque and that is not always the best quality in endurance, Estre has had to calm down too.
Jota have been in WEC more recently, understand the rules, tyres perhaps a little better so are able to maybe move quicker and with less restraint than Penske, who maybe also spent more time working in the USA (which eventually proved worthwhile)
Jota haven’t done anywhere close to the testing PP have, and the drivers are no better, absolutely no way should they be being beaten on pace by JotaFelix is a very aggressive man like Felipe Alberquerque and that is not always the best quality in endurance, Estre has had to calm down too.
Jota have been in WEC more recently, understand the rules, tyres perhaps a little better so are able to maybe move quicker and with less restraint than Penske, who maybe also spent more time working in the USA (which eventually proved worthwhile)
Yes the 6 was compromised by Bambers indiscretion, but they should have been able to overcome that in 8 hours
You seem to be forgetting the cars are pretty much the same and the drivers in both series are different too!
Not sure the tyres are the same either. I am not shocked at all that Jota have been quick, they were very quick at Le Mans, and seem to have found something in the car they have sustained since then.
The factory cars are maybe still getting up to speed, Jota are timeserved in WEC, so many just get things a little better, plus their lineup is solid, all experienced recent WEC drivers in LMP2.
Estre and Vanthoor are new to prototypes, as I think is Christensen, so I thnk to judge them so quickly is unfair.
Some of them simply might not be suited to this level!
Not sure the tyres are the same either. I am not shocked at all that Jota have been quick, they were very quick at Le Mans, and seem to have found something in the car they have sustained since then.
The factory cars are maybe still getting up to speed, Jota are timeserved in WEC, so many just get things a little better, plus their lineup is solid, all experienced recent WEC drivers in LMP2.
Estre and Vanthoor are new to prototypes, as I think is Christensen, so I thnk to judge them so quickly is unfair.
Some of them simply might not be suited to this level!
flatlandsman said:
You seem to be forgetting the cars are pretty much the same and the drivers in both series are different too!
Not sure the tyres are the same either. I am not shocked at all that Jota have been quick, they were very quick at Le Mans, and seem to have found something in the car they have sustained since then.
The factory cars are maybe still getting up to speed, Jota are timeserved in WEC, so many just get things a little better, plus their lineup is solid, all experienced recent WEC drivers in LMP2.
Estre and Vanthoor are new to prototypes, as I think is Christensen, so I thnk to judge them so quickly is unfair.
Some of them simply might not be suited to this level!
As far as I am aware (I seem to remember this was briefly discussed during yesterdays race) the customer cars and factory cars have to be identical, including the tyres.Not sure the tyres are the same either. I am not shocked at all that Jota have been quick, they were very quick at Le Mans, and seem to have found something in the car they have sustained since then.
The factory cars are maybe still getting up to speed, Jota are timeserved in WEC, so many just get things a little better, plus their lineup is solid, all experienced recent WEC drivers in LMP2.
Estre and Vanthoor are new to prototypes, as I think is Christensen, so I thnk to judge them so quickly is unfair.
Some of them simply might not be suited to this level!
- Estre has raced GT cars since 2008. Prior to the 963 he raced an LMP2 Ligier at the 2015 Le Mans 24H.
- Vanthoor has raced GT cars (with the occasional touring/stock car race) since 2012. He has raced a LMP2 car at the 2015 & 2016 LM 24H & the ELMS Spa 4H in 2015.
- Christensen has raced GT cars since 2011 and hasn't raced a prototype prior to the 963.
This is part of the point.
The Jota team are used to WEC, as are the drivers, OK not in the top class.
I think Porsche are learning and have certainly picked up pace, what was interesting is that I think Jota got there quicker than Penske, but certainly in the US, Penske are very quick, arguably quicker than WEC but with totally different and maybe lesser opposition compared to Toyota and Ferrari.
As an aside Lilou was superbly quick today in a 499 as was a young driver who ended up quickest. Rossi also was decent in the LMP2 Arguably I think he ought to do ELMS next year and jump to Hyper soon
The Jota team are used to WEC, as are the drivers, OK not in the top class.
I think Porsche are learning and have certainly picked up pace, what was interesting is that I think Jota got there quicker than Penske, but certainly in the US, Penske are very quick, arguably quicker than WEC but with totally different and maybe lesser opposition compared to Toyota and Ferrari.
As an aside Lilou was superbly quick today in a 499 as was a young driver who ended up quickest. Rossi also was decent in the LMP2 Arguably I think he ought to do ELMS next year and jump to Hyper soon
freedman said:
Jota haven’t done anywhere close to the testing PP have, and the drivers are no better, absolutely no way should they be being beaten on pace by Jota
Yes the 6 was compromised by Bambers indiscretion, but they should have been able to overcome that in 8 hours
I think you underestimate Jota.Yes the 6 was compromised by Bambers indiscretion, but they should have been able to overcome that in 8 hours
They’ve been right at the sharp end of LMP2 over several rule sets in a row. When a team can do that despite the last few years being oreca cup, you know that they’re among the best LMP teams out there.
Given that LMDH / DPI is closer to LMP2 than old LMP1, I’d see no reason that Jota would not continue to excel in excellent company…
flatlandsman said:
Apparently some data coming from the weekend shows that the Jota car had the lowest top speed of any 963, so maybe they sacrificed speed (which was obvious from the factory cars passing the 499 on multiple occasions) for lap time.
Whilst it’s true the Jota car had a slower top speed, the bit about the factory cars passing the 499 based on top speed clearly isn’t The 5 never got into the fight with them at any stage, and the 6 was slower than both Ferraris
Commentary discussed the ‘apparent’ straight line advantage of the Ferraris on a number of occasions.
http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/Results/12_2023/0...
Nyck de Vries signs with Toyota hypercar for 2024, replacing Jose Maria Lopez https://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/nyck-de-vries-j...
He's also signed with the Mahindra Formula E team for 2024, that calendar is 16 races from January to July (not 16 weekends as some FE weekends are double headers).
He's also signed with the Mahindra Formula E team for 2024, that calendar is 16 races from January to July (not 16 weekends as some FE weekends are double headers).
Interesting. Personally, I think Jose Maria Lopez has been the weak link in that Toyota squad for years - talented bloke but too likely to be the one that puts it off..
Nick De Vries though? Unless I've missed something, he's a single seat guy, I'd be putting an endurance chap forward for the job at hand.
(I don't have a race team though, so my opinion is probably irrelevant!) =)
Nick De Vries though? Unless I've missed something, he's a single seat guy, I'd be putting an endurance chap forward for the job at hand.
(I don't have a race team though, so my opinion is probably irrelevant!) =)
Have to admit I have watched a fair bit of IMSA this year and Tandy has been a bit wold, showing a fair bit of daftness too, been unlucky but also extremely fast! He has made some daft moves though, but he is far from alone there, some of these guys make the stupidest moves at times for endurance racers,
ajprice said:
Nyck de Vries signs with Toyota hypercar for 2024, replacing Jose Maria Lopez https://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/nyck-de-vries-j...
He's also signed with the Mahindra Formula E team for 2024, that calendar is 16 races from January to July (not 16 weekends as some FE weekends are double headers).
Was signed up by Toyota over 3 years ago as a test and reserve driver and was a rising star in LMP2 a few years back - so it’s more like a promotion.He's also signed with the Mahindra Formula E team for 2024, that calendar is 16 races from January to July (not 16 weekends as some FE weekends are double headers).
Alpine have signed Mick Schumacher for 2024, he'll also keep the reserve driver role at Mercedes F1 https://www.planetf1.com/news/mick-schumacher-big-...
Another announcement. Robert Kubica has joined AF Corse, his role is to be announced yet but it's probably to drive a 499P hypercar https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/af-corse-signs...
Edited by ajprice on Wednesday 22 November 20:42
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