2023 Sportscar Thread (WEC, IMSA, NLS, GT World Challenge)
Discussion
generationx said:
The races at Silverstone were great. I remember when Porsche returned with Mark Webber the pit walk was absolutely rammed. I think Hypercar could achieve similar levels.
The pit walk may have been but the overall crowd was tinyMaybe a tenth (if that) of what we used to get in the Group C era, and far less even than the old G5/6 days too
This is the big issue, we all know there is only one venue that can host it, and in reality they make sooooo much money from f1 at the moment that they are not interested in anything else.
They were unfortunate to be hosting it for years when it was very boom and bust, but really crowds were never big, I went there on race days with the Audi Toyota times and the crowd was about a BTCC crowd if that.
But a decision has clearly been made to move away from paying for big events that do not make money, a sad thing for the supposed home of British Motorsport that they really dont care about hosting anything unless it makes a big profit, I worry about motoGP quite honestly too as the crowds there have dropped hugely since Rossi stopped.
WEC was great there to see, but the Middle East are sportwashing everything these days and they will want it there and pay handsomely, it is up to the FIA and ACO to make the decision and I doubt Silverstone are even remotely interested in hosting it, they might be now, but it is far too late.
They were unfortunate to be hosting it for years when it was very boom and bust, but really crowds were never big, I went there on race days with the Audi Toyota times and the crowd was about a BTCC crowd if that.
But a decision has clearly been made to move away from paying for big events that do not make money, a sad thing for the supposed home of British Motorsport that they really dont care about hosting anything unless it makes a big profit, I worry about motoGP quite honestly too as the crowds there have dropped hugely since Rossi stopped.
WEC was great there to see, but the Middle East are sportwashing everything these days and they will want it there and pay handsomely, it is up to the FIA and ACO to make the decision and I doubt Silverstone are even remotely interested in hosting it, they might be now, but it is far too late.
Ah , but driving up the A43 wouldn't count as a (hateful expression ) road trip , it isn't always (ditto) beer o'clock at Copse and the good folk of Towcester probably get tight lipped about donuts.
Given how many people profess an interest in motor sport it is surprising how few actually attend it. Outside F1 and BTCC I see very few folk at most other events I go to. Sure, they might watch stuff on tv but to me that's just watching telly.
Given how many people profess an interest in motor sport it is surprising how few actually attend it. Outside F1 and BTCC I see very few folk at most other events I go to. Sure, they might watch stuff on tv but to me that's just watching telly.
ArnageWRC said:
Imagine if all the Brits that went over for Le Mans actually supported their home event? That would be a healthy crowd. Can't help but feel most go for the non race activities, and the actual race is a secondary concern.
IMHO you can't compare them.Silverstone is a short race, on an open airfield incorporating a hotel complex: https://www.silverstone.co.uk/visit-stay/hotel. Being an airfield the April weather experience is amplified.
If Silverstone was run over 24 HRs somewhere between the end of May and September, the attendance would grow. It might become an event, rather than a just a race.
The only endurance race in April worth attending is the EWC round at... Le Mans. The weather can be all over the shop, but it's a 24HR race AND an event.
boxedin said:
IMHO you can't compare them.
Silverstone is a short race, on an open airfield incorporating a hotel complex: https://www.silverstone.co.uk/visit-stay/hotel. Being an airfield the April weather experience is amplified.
If Silverstone was run over 24 HRs somewhere between the end of May and September, the attendance would grow. It might become an event, rather than a just a race.
The only endurance race in April worth attending is the EWC round at... Le Mans. The weather can be all over the shop, but it's a 24HR race AND an event.
The Silverstone race has been later in the year than that, the last few times, no, and normally was in May?Silverstone is a short race, on an open airfield incorporating a hotel complex: https://www.silverstone.co.uk/visit-stay/hotel. Being an airfield the April weather experience is amplified.
If Silverstone was run over 24 HRs somewhere between the end of May and September, the attendance would grow. It might become an event, rather than a just a race.
The only endurance race in April worth attending is the EWC round at... Le Mans. The weather can be all over the shop, but it's a 24HR race AND an event.
Also its historically been 6 hours, bar the last 1 or 2, which is long enough for the vast majority
It used to draw big crowds, from the late 70s, when it was easy enough to walk the circuit but the crowd was still far bigger than more recent years to the heyday of Group C, when it began getting really busy
Unfortunately it seems the majority, cant see anything beyond F1 or BTCC
freedman said:
The Silverstone race has been later in the year than that, the last few times, no, and normally was in May?
Also its historically been 6 hours, bar the last 1 or 2, which is long enough for the vast majority
It used to draw big crowds, from the late 70s, when it was easy enough to walk the circuit but the crowd was still far bigger than more recent years to the heyday of Group C, when it began getting really busy
Unfortunately it seems the majority, cant see anything beyond F1 or BTCC
I suspect the combination of Hypercar ( with Ferrari / BMW et al ) along with the likes of Rossi are going to change that. Then everyone will complain it's too popular ;-)Also its historically been 6 hours, bar the last 1 or 2, which is long enough for the vast majority
It used to draw big crowds, from the late 70s, when it was easy enough to walk the circuit but the crowd was still far bigger than more recent years to the heyday of Group C, when it began getting really busy
Unfortunately it seems the majority, cant see anything beyond F1 or BTCC
I know that forums have changed a lot in the past 10 or so years, but you only have to see the evidence on here, the vast majorly of topics are F1 or BTCC based (on current form two of the most predictable form's of racing currently around), Rally gets a looking more than it did, mainly due to a few very over enthusiastic folk but fair play to them.
Everything else is pretty much ignored.
here we have a sport dominated as usual in top level British sport not necessarily by British drivers but by a lot of British based teams a lot of cars, engines made here, yet nobody really is interested.
t is the same on other forums, F1 dominates and woe betide you speak against it.
I am the first to speak out on Silverstone, but you cannot argue with their logic, they ONLY care about money, that shop has sailed that they care about heritage, motorsport in general, they ONLY care about money, and at the moment with F1 they are making stacks of it, and you can see the outcome, Escapade (lol what a farce) hotels, kart tracks, museums etc etc etc. All of this is nothing whatsoever to do with anything but MONEY.
It has to be this way, it was probably going to close or at least suffer hugely due to the woeful mismanagement over the past 15 years, The total and utter waste of time the Wing was/is, the weather incidents, resurfacing and the cretin who aigned the escalating hosting deal for f1, that is the past, the future is money and nothing else.
WEC doesn't make any, so it was and will be cast aside, I would hope it might come back but WEC is very very cyclical, it has huge booms and busts, and they missed this boom.
Everything else is pretty much ignored.
here we have a sport dominated as usual in top level British sport not necessarily by British drivers but by a lot of British based teams a lot of cars, engines made here, yet nobody really is interested.
t is the same on other forums, F1 dominates and woe betide you speak against it.
I am the first to speak out on Silverstone, but you cannot argue with their logic, they ONLY care about money, that shop has sailed that they care about heritage, motorsport in general, they ONLY care about money, and at the moment with F1 they are making stacks of it, and you can see the outcome, Escapade (lol what a farce) hotels, kart tracks, museums etc etc etc. All of this is nothing whatsoever to do with anything but MONEY.
It has to be this way, it was probably going to close or at least suffer hugely due to the woeful mismanagement over the past 15 years, The total and utter waste of time the Wing was/is, the weather incidents, resurfacing and the cretin who aigned the escalating hosting deal for f1, that is the past, the future is money and nothing else.
WEC doesn't make any, so it was and will be cast aside, I would hope it might come back but WEC is very very cyclical, it has huge booms and busts, and they missed this boom.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I've never envied Silverstone's F1 dilemma. Have the finances changed much in the recent years? If they haven't (my late father was a BRDC member), then it will still be a constant battle to break even, whilst at the same time appeasing all the various factions that have starkly different visions.
All sorts of mistakes and missteps have been made there, but ultimately it still exists, at International level, unlike so many other circuits. And without any Government help. For that we ought to be thankful.
All sorts of mistakes and missteps have been made there, but ultimately it still exists, at International level, unlike so many other circuits. And without any Government help. For that we ought to be thankful.
flatlandsman said:
I know that forums have changed a lot in the past 10 or so years, but you only have to see the evidence on here, the vast majorly of topics are F1 or BTCC based (on current form two of the most predictable form's of racing currently around), Rally gets a looking more than it did, mainly due to a few very over enthusiastic folk but fair play to them.
Everything else is pretty much ignored.
here we have a sport dominated as usual in top level British sport not necessarily by British drivers but by a lot of British based teams a lot of cars, engines made here, yet nobody really is interested.
t is the same on other forums, F1 dominates and woe betide you speak against it.
I am the first to speak out on Silverstone, but you cannot argue with their logic, they ONLY care about money, that shop has sailed that they care about heritage, motorsport in general, they ONLY care about money, and at the moment with F1 they are making stacks of it, and you can see the outcome, Escapade (lol what a farce) hotels, kart tracks, museums etc etc etc. All of this is nothing whatsoever to do with anything but MONEY.
It has to be this way, it was probably going to close or at least suffer hugely due to the woeful mismanagement over the past 15 years, The total and utter waste of time the Wing was/is, the weather incidents, resurfacing and the cretin who aigned the escalating hosting deal for f1, that is the past, the future is money and nothing else.
WEC doesn't make any, so it was and will be cast aside, I would hope it might come back but WEC is very very cyclical, it has huge booms and busts, and they missed this boom.
Of course it all revolves around money .Everything else is pretty much ignored.
here we have a sport dominated as usual in top level British sport not necessarily by British drivers but by a lot of British based teams a lot of cars, engines made here, yet nobody really is interested.
t is the same on other forums, F1 dominates and woe betide you speak against it.
I am the first to speak out on Silverstone, but you cannot argue with their logic, they ONLY care about money, that shop has sailed that they care about heritage, motorsport in general, they ONLY care about money, and at the moment with F1 they are making stacks of it, and you can see the outcome, Escapade (lol what a farce) hotels, kart tracks, museums etc etc etc. All of this is nothing whatsoever to do with anything but MONEY.
It has to be this way, it was probably going to close or at least suffer hugely due to the woeful mismanagement over the past 15 years, The total and utter waste of time the Wing was/is, the weather incidents, resurfacing and the cretin who aigned the escalating hosting deal for f1, that is the past, the future is money and nothing else.
WEC doesn't make any, so it was and will be cast aside, I would hope it might come back but WEC is very very cyclical, it has huge booms and busts, and they missed this boom.
Without that bills don't get paid and you can kiss goodbye to Silverstone , unless you think the gov are going to pick it up and run it as some sort of national center piece ?
I think the issue I feel is that there has clearly been a sea change in the way the place is run now. WEC was a staple there for years in boom and bust times for the series.
There used to be all sorts of different events run there. BSB, WSBK, GTWC, WEC, MotoGP aswell as obviously f1
It seems to me now that anything that might risk breaking even or losing money is simply not run, whereas in the past they took a risk, probably to try and cater for the ridiculous situation F1 got them into,
That has now been largely avoided because for some reason half a million people seem perfectly happy to hand over half a grand a year to watch f1 plus all the other expense they fork out, so in reality Silverstone do not NEED to take any risks anymore,. as they make more than enough from f1 every year I would imagine, plus all the sundries they make for other meetings. ground rent for hotels, Uni and the Wing, testing.
I agree it has to be profitable, but in the past it did not seem to matter as much as it does now, and UK fans are suffering a little because of this. If they live near the place, no BSB, SBK, GTWC, WEC, that is the first time that has happened for a pong time quite honestly.
There used to be all sorts of different events run there. BSB, WSBK, GTWC, WEC, MotoGP aswell as obviously f1
It seems to me now that anything that might risk breaking even or losing money is simply not run, whereas in the past they took a risk, probably to try and cater for the ridiculous situation F1 got them into,
That has now been largely avoided because for some reason half a million people seem perfectly happy to hand over half a grand a year to watch f1 plus all the other expense they fork out, so in reality Silverstone do not NEED to take any risks anymore,. as they make more than enough from f1 every year I would imagine, plus all the sundries they make for other meetings. ground rent for hotels, Uni and the Wing, testing.
I agree it has to be profitable, but in the past it did not seem to matter as much as it does now, and UK fans are suffering a little because of this. If they live near the place, no BSB, SBK, GTWC, WEC, that is the first time that has happened for a pong time quite honestly.
I was at Silverstone a few weeks ago for Porter's book festival . It was held in the Wing and accessed via the bridge over the track from the 5th floor (or was it 4th ? ) of the Hilton . God it felt weird and I couldn't help trying to imagine where I was in relation to my first trip in , God , 1971 . Bleak old spot then but I have to say that the place feels like a permanent work in progress . It feels so temporary , like a hastily erected Amazon hub in Poznan . Museum (not bad, btw) apart , there is precious little sense of heritage . And huge grandstands, largely empty for 362 days a year , don't help, nor do the vast run offs.
But I am in the minority to raise an eyebrow as to most people F1 is now a sport in its own right. Judging by my last visit to the GP in 2022 (which I enjoyed) very , very few of the many people I'd chatted to had ever been to a club meeting , hillclimb or even British GT . If I'd shown them the picture I took in 1987 of the pit garage, mechanics working late on the Ferraris and me standing 10 feet away , they'd have assumed it was photoshopped or I had VIP access. .
But I am in the minority to raise an eyebrow as to most people F1 is now a sport in its own right. Judging by my last visit to the GP in 2022 (which I enjoyed) very , very few of the many people I'd chatted to had ever been to a club meeting , hillclimb or even British GT . If I'd shown them the picture I took in 1987 of the pit garage, mechanics working late on the Ferraris and me standing 10 feet away , they'd have assumed it was photoshopped or I had VIP access. .
flatlandsman said:
....I agree it has to be profitable, but in the past it did not seem to matter as much as it does now, and UK fans are suffering a little because of this. If they live near the place, no BSB, SBK, GTWC, WEC, that is the first time that has happened for a pong time quite honestly.
Comedy typo as Silverstone stinks 
I suspect they have no interest in running the 'mid-level' events as they will have all the faff of having to cope with crowds but not making much money, but are ok with club events as they can just ignore the spectators and not open any stands or put on any catering.
They seem to be making slow progress with the house building at Becketts. I can't imagine there's much interest in anything but the units with a direct track view.
coppice said:
But I am in the minority to raise an eyebrow as to most people F1 is now a sport in its own right. Judging by my last visit to the GP in 2022 (which I enjoyed) very , very few of the many people I'd chatted to had ever been to a club meeting , hillclimb or even British GT . If I'd shown them the picture I took in 1987 of the pit garage, mechanics working late on the Ferraris and me standing 10 feet away , they'd have assumed it was photoshopped or I had VIP access. .
I'm afraid you're right - and I don't think it's an accident that this has happened. Lots of general sports media have a section purely for 'F1'...and ignore the rest of motorsport. And this never used to be the case.Apparently 80% of the apartments have been sold! Well not really sold, as you cannot live in them, they are for corporate use and they are sort of a little akin to time share apparently.
I do understand the issues there, but in many ways the public are to blame, if they supported stuff like WEC or GTWC it would still be there, sadly the general public tend to think racing is just F1, and that happens to be one of the most predictable, lengthy, boring and massively expensive things in sport to watch. Yet God knows, why, but hundreds of thousands of them turn out every year, a fact that staggers and dumbfounds me in equal measure.
Still, a few years back 20 million people paid real money for The Sun, so nothing should shock you really
I do understand the issues there, but in many ways the public are to blame, if they supported stuff like WEC or GTWC it would still be there, sadly the general public tend to think racing is just F1, and that happens to be one of the most predictable, lengthy, boring and massively expensive things in sport to watch. Yet God knows, why, but hundreds of thousands of them turn out every year, a fact that staggers and dumbfounds me in equal measure.
Still, a few years back 20 million people paid real money for The Sun, so nothing should shock you really
I’m a latecomer to the thread, but it’s such a shame that the UK is losing world championship events, be it WEC or WRC. Aside from F1 (and maybe Rallycross?) is there any 4-wheel FIA international series that comes over now?
MotoGP or WSBK might be on my list for this year as at least the prices haven’t risen to F1 level, but I even look back to the relatively recent days of DTM at Donington and Brands with a bit of nostalgia. GT World Challenge at Brands this year might work, but without any disrespect to that series, I could go to British GT at Oulton and squint a bit.
MotoGP or WSBK might be on my list for this year as at least the prices haven’t risen to F1 level, but I even look back to the relatively recent days of DTM at Donington and Brands with a bit of nostalgia. GT World Challenge at Brands this year might work, but without any disrespect to that series, I could go to British GT at Oulton and squint a bit.
The problem is not necessarily what you think. IN reality there are very few tracks that can host the very big FIA events, I think only Silverstone can host WEC and they do not want it, at least for the moment as it makes no money, (the only thing they are remotely bothered about at the moment).
Brands hosts GTWC and has done for years but it used to also be at Silverstone but again they dropped it as it made no money. DTM used to be at Brands, and was responsible for the butchering of the long circuit for speccies, but that was quickly dropped too.
SBK goes to Donington, GP to Silverstone but that has suffered considerably dwindling crowds in recent years so its tenure might be wobbly if you look at that the management there do once events start losing popularity.
I am looking at doing some races in Europe but am not hugely keen on travelling alone or camping which makes it far dearer so will likely just watch them on tv!
Brands hosts GTWC and has done for years but it used to also be at Silverstone but again they dropped it as it made no money. DTM used to be at Brands, and was responsible for the butchering of the long circuit for speccies, but that was quickly dropped too.
SBK goes to Donington, GP to Silverstone but that has suffered considerably dwindling crowds in recent years so its tenure might be wobbly if you look at that the management there do once events start losing popularity.
I am looking at doing some races in Europe but am not hugely keen on travelling alone or camping which makes it far dearer so will likely just watch them on tv!
AnhBanhBao said:
Yes, very true, it’s Silverstone or nothing for many of the big series I suppose.
I think domesticallyIi may just bother with the historics this year, but like you I’d love to experience WEC at Spa or similar, as part of a group.
Trip to Spa for the WEC race is highly recommended, great weekend away.I think domesticallyIi may just bother with the historics this year, but like you I’d love to experience WEC at Spa or similar, as part of a group.
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