2023 Formula E Thread
Discussion
GlobalRacer said:
I've seen plenty of far worse street circuits and a few worse permanent courses. At the end of the day the only way to make racing totally safe is to stop doing it.
I disagree. F1 have managed a good balance. I became a fan back in the day when the attrition rate was appalling. The Formula E circuits are a bit naff and come the next generation should migrate tom the same tracks as F1. Sadly i think that F1 will try and block that as the EV cars will ultimately be quicker and there is a huge industry trying to keep the Fossil Fuel industry going.
Nomme de Plum said:
I disagree. F1 have managed a good balance. I became a fan back in the day when the attrition rate was appalling.
The Formula E circuits are a bit naff and come the next generation should migrate tom the same tracks as F1. Sadly i think that F1 will try and block that as the EV cars will ultimately be quicker and there is a huge industry trying to keep the Fossil Fuel industry going.
Where did I mention F1? There are other forms of motor racing you know.The Formula E circuits are a bit naff and come the next generation should migrate tom the same tracks as F1. Sadly i think that F1 will try and block that as the EV cars will ultimately be quicker and there is a huge industry trying to keep the Fossil Fuel industry going.
Nomme de Plum said:
GlobalRacer said:
I've seen plenty of far worse street circuits and a few worse permanent courses. At the end of the day the only way to make racing totally safe is to stop doing it.
I disagree. F1 have managed a good balance. I became a fan back in the day when the attrition rate was appalling. The Formula E circuits are a bit naff and come the next generation should migrate tom the same tracks as F1. Sadly i think that F1 will try and block that as the EV cars will ultimately be quicker and there is a huge industry trying to keep the Fossil Fuel industry going.
When an electric car can beat an F1 car over a Grand Prix distance, then we can talk. It’s probably a decade away at least.
Agree on the tracks though, they need to run on proper circuits. They don’t at the moment, because they don’t want us to see how slow the cars are, and the regen system needs a lot of braking zones to work properly.
Sandpit Steve said:
Agree on the tracks though, they need to run on proper circuits. They don’t at the moment, because they don’t want us to see how slow the cars are, and the regen system needs a lot of braking zones to work properly.
(Apologies for just snipping this bit, Steve)I believe the reason FE haven't run full traditional circuits, and probably have very little intention to do so, is that that isn't the product they want to present, promoting EV and bring an extreme version of EV right into the cities. Wherever possible, their aim (again, all this is IMHO) is to bring EV racing into the cities and to almost develop an entirely new fanbase, which traditional tracks don't (yet) excite.
On the city based tracks, they control everything you see, they can control the message far far better than elsewhere and the product is how they want it presented it 99% of the time. Speed wise, I'm not sure they're that bothered. It's almost spec series (without being a spec series, if that makes sense) so what would faster cars given them over what they have now, except a steeper dev curve (and thus costs)? Again, that potentially comes back to a new fanbase who maybe aren't tuned in to faster must be better and enjoy something different.
Saying all that, I do think FE need to make their next leap very soon. It's become normal, which is not what they wanted to be and they need to be making headlines for things other than dumb crashes. They've had lots of change at the top of the organisation over the past couple of years which hasn't helped progress as well.
I tend to come across as a bit of a defender of FE at times, but when you dig behind the scenes of the product (for that is what it is) it is quite eye opening what they achieve (again, as part of 'The Product'). Is it the future of motor racing in its current form? Not at all. Is it a good way to develop technologies in not just the vehicles to further that journey? Absolutely yes. Horses for courses, innit.
Just don't look too hard at the large diesel generator farm....
Red Firecracker said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Agree on the tracks though, they need to run on proper circuits. They don’t at the moment, because they don’t want us to see how slow the cars are, and the regen system needs a lot of braking zones to work properly.
(Apologies for just snipping this bit, Steve)I believe the reason FE haven't run full traditional circuits, and probably have very little intention to do so, is that that isn't the product they want to present, promoting EV and bring an extreme version of EV right into the cities. Wherever possible, their aim (again, all this is IMHO) is to bring EV racing into the cities and to almost develop an entirely new fanbase, which traditional tracks don't (yet) excite.
On the city based tracks, they control everything you see, they can control the message far far better than elsewhere and the product is how they want it presented it 99% of the time. Speed wise, I'm not sure they're that bothered. It's almost spec series (without being a spec series, if that makes sense) so what would faster cars given them over what they have now, except a steeper dev curve (and thus costs)? Again, that potentially comes back to a new fanbase who maybe aren't tuned in to faster must be better and enjoy something different.
Saying all that, I do think FE need to make their next leap very soon. It's become normal, which is not what they wanted to be and they need to be making headlines for things other than dumb crashes. They've had lots of change at the top of the organisation over the past couple of years which hasn't helped progress as well.
I tend to come across as a bit of a defender of FE at times, but when you dig behind the scenes of the product (for that is what it is) it is quite eye opening what they achieve (again, as part of 'The Product'). Is it the future of motor racing in its current form? Not at all. Is it a good way to develop technologies in not just the vehicles to further that journey? Absolutely yes. Horses for courses, innit.
Just don't look too hard at the large diesel generator farm....
Manufacturers wanted to be in on the hype, but really don’t want to be running what’s almost a spec series, hence Mercedes walking.
I would have a genuinely prototype drivetrain in a common chassis, and set the regulation weight of the car to not include the battery. That way, we’d see the world’s battery manufacturers get involved, who are already spending hundreds of millions on R&D, competing with each other. But “The Product” doesn’t want one car to be the fastest in any season, and probably doesn’t want to see any massive battery fires either, which are the almost-inevitable outcome of prototype batteries trying to get the weight down.
BUT trying to get the weight down, and energy density up, is exactly what the car manufacturers want to see. The new Mercedes road car EV prototype, with 1,200km range, is brilliant. No-one gets range anxiety with that much capacity. They couldn’t be bothered to charge it overnight, when running the Mille Miglia! https://youtube.com/watch?v=hFrKzH2UZ1c The battery was built by the F1 powertrains team in Brixworth. That’s what Mercedes wanted FE to be, a technology showcase.
No comment on the rows of diesel generators, but those who pay attention have all seen them!
Sandpit Steve said:
I do think that the original idea was a good one, but it’s got lost over time. The Mickey Mouse tracks are now too small for the cars, but they want to stay in cities rather than using proper motorsport venues, and so you end up with a hideous high-speed crash last weekend that was lucky not to have put anyone in the hospital.
Manufacturers wanted to be in on the hype, but really don’t want to be running what’s almost a spec series, hence Mercedes walking.
I would have a genuinely prototype drivetrain in a common chassis, and set the regulation weight of the car to not include the battery. That way, we’d see the world’s battery manufacturers get involved, who are already spending hundreds of millions on R&D, competing with each other. But “The Product” doesn’t want one car to be the fastest in any season, and probably doesn’t want to see any massive battery fires either, which are the almost-inevitable outcome of prototype batteries trying to get the weight down.
BUT trying to get the weight down, and energy density up, is exactly what the car manufacturers want to see. The new Mercedes road car EV prototype, with 1,200km range, is brilliant. No-one gets range anxiety with that much capacity. They couldn’t be bothered to charge it overnight, when running the Mille Miglia! https://youtube.com/watch?v=hFrKzH2UZ1c The battery was built by the F1 powertrains team in Brixworth. That’s what Mercedes wanted FE to be, a technology showcase.
No comment on the rows of diesel generators, but those who pay attention have all seen them!
The whole idea has always been to run in cities so the races are where the people are rather than them having to travel miles in private transport.Manufacturers wanted to be in on the hype, but really don’t want to be running what’s almost a spec series, hence Mercedes walking.
I would have a genuinely prototype drivetrain in a common chassis, and set the regulation weight of the car to not include the battery. That way, we’d see the world’s battery manufacturers get involved, who are already spending hundreds of millions on R&D, competing with each other. But “The Product” doesn’t want one car to be the fastest in any season, and probably doesn’t want to see any massive battery fires either, which are the almost-inevitable outcome of prototype batteries trying to get the weight down.
BUT trying to get the weight down, and energy density up, is exactly what the car manufacturers want to see. The new Mercedes road car EV prototype, with 1,200km range, is brilliant. No-one gets range anxiety with that much capacity. They couldn’t be bothered to charge it overnight, when running the Mille Miglia! https://youtube.com/watch?v=hFrKzH2UZ1c The battery was built by the F1 powertrains team in Brixworth. That’s what Mercedes wanted FE to be, a technology showcase.
No comment on the rows of diesel generators, but those who pay attention have all seen them!
Batteries are part of the roadmap but it's a carefully thought out long term plan to keep costs down. Originally batteries were to be open in the 2016/17 season but, at the time, there was little demand to do it. Since then there's been the pandemic and it's effect on costs and timelines.
Personally I don't see the need for a battery "war". The steps between the different types are so massive all the teams would end up running the same design of pack anyway. The potential publicity downsides for an experimental pack catching fire would be massive for the series as well.
Sam Bird moving to McLaren https://www.autosport.com/formula-e/news/sam-birds...
UK coverage moving to TNT Sport https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/486586/tnt-spo...
ajprice said:
UK coverage moving to TNT Sport https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/486586/tnt-spo...
So that's another motor racing series that will require a subscription to watch live? 
Pity. One more series that I won't be watching live.
Can only hope highights are on Ch4, Quest or a free streaming service.
Puddenchucker said:
ajprice said:
UK coverage moving to TNT Sport https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/486586/tnt-spo...
So that's another motor racing series that will require a subscription to watch live? Pity. One more series that I won't be watching live.
Can only hope highights are on Ch4, Quest or a free streaming service.
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