Dilano van 't Hoff 18 (RIP)

[bumskins]

ridds said:

Or, the race Directors make better calls given the conditions.

Terrible accident and loss but as we are always reminded. Motorsport is dangerous and short of stopping Motorsport there will always be a level of risk.

Hit the nail on the head IMO - look back at what Spa has been changed from, a beautiful road circuit that flowed for miles, had enormously high speeds and the run-off/protection offered varied from 20 foot grass bank drops to he walls of houses lining the circuit.

Any death in motor racing is sad, but at the end of the day we're currently witnessing some of the safest cars, circuits and operating procedures we've ever had in motor racing; fact of the matter is, any time you drive a motor vehicle you can die regardless of public road or race circuit. To suggest the circuit needs to change or must implement some form of safety measure to account for accidents such as these is wrong IMO, 'throwing the baby out with the bath water' if you will.

Drivers getting in to racing cars accept the risk of death, to believe anything else is foolhardy. At the end of the day, all competitors accept the risk, it's just a shame in this instance the officials at the helm decided to let the event go ahead in the face of dangerous/unacceptable weather conditions.

[Logistix]

bumskins said:

ridds said:

Or, the race Directors make better calls given the conditions.

Terrible accident and loss but as we are always reminded. Motorsport is dangerous and short of stopping Motorsport there will always be a level of risk.

Hit the nail on the head IMO - look back at what Spa has been changed from, a beautiful road circuit that flowed for miles, had enormously high speeds and the run-off/protection offered varied from 20 foot grass bank drops to he walls of houses lining the circuit.

Any death in motor racing is sad, but at the end of the day we're currently witnessing some of the safest cars, circuits and operating procedures we've ever had in motor racing; fact of the matter is, any time you drive a motor vehicle you can die regardless of public road or race circuit. To suggest the circuit needs to change or must implement some form of safety measure to account for accidents such as these is wrong IMO, 'throwing the baby out with the bath water' if you will.

Drivers getting in to racing cars accept the risk of death, to believe anything else is foolhardy. At the end of the day, all competitors accept the risk, it's just a shame in this instance the officials at the helm decided to let the event go ahead in the face of dangerous/unacceptable weather conditions.

The trouble is that corner is inherently dangerous due to it being blind. The conditions made it more likely that there was a crash, but even if it had been clear and sunny, a car crashing and rebounding onto the track would have been invisible to someone following at full speed. That’s an unacceptable risk now that it has been highlighted by two fatalities.

[SpeckledJim]

bumskins said:

Hit the nail on the head IMO - look back at what Spa has been changed from, a beautiful road circuit that flowed for miles, had enormously high speeds and the run-off/protection offered varied from 20 foot grass bank drops to he walls of houses lining the circuit.

Any death in motor racing is sad, but at the end of the day we're currently witnessing some of the safest cars, circuits and operating procedures we've ever had in motor racing; fact of the matter is, any time you drive a motor vehicle you can die regardless of public road or race circuit. To suggest the circuit needs to change or must implement some form of safety measure to account for accidents such as these is wrong IMO, 'throwing the baby out with the bath water' if you will.

Drivers getting in to racing cars accept the risk of death, to believe anything else is foolhardy. At the end of the day, all competitors accept the risk, it's just a shame in this instance the officials at the helm decided to let the event go ahead in the face of dangerous/unacceptable weather conditions.

So should motorsport get more dangerous, less dangerous, or has this latest deadly crash happened in the goldilocks zone where motorsport is exactly the right amount of dangerous?

Spa forces drivers to either drive very quickly into an area they can't see to be clear, or be intolerably slow in comparison to competitors who grit their teeth and risk their life, and those of their competitors, every lap.

[Olivera]

Logistix said:

The trouble is that corner is inherently dangerous due to it being blind. The conditions made it more likely that there was a crash, but even if it had been clear and sunny, a car crashing and rebounding onto the track would have been invisible to someone following at full speed. That’s an unacceptable risk now that it has been highlighted by two fatalities.

From what I've read the accident was further up the Kemmel straight and caused mainly by terrible visibility, so it's nothing to do with Eau Rouge and Raidillon. The circuit has also recently spent tens of millions of euros massively widening and improving the latter two corners.

[Gweeds]

Having watched the footage I’m of the opinion that the visibility was too poor for that race to have been run.

[Hammersia]

Gweeds said:

Having watched the footage I’m of the opinion that the visibility was too poor for that race to have been run.

Also having seen the footage, seems it was quite a bit down the straight, don't think the blind approach caused it as much as the weather.

Impact didn't look... all that hard, compared to other survived crashes. More development of side impact protection required I think.

[super7]

Gweeds said:

Having watched the footage I’m of the opinion that the visibility was too poor for that race to have been run.

Agree...... the issue wasn't the visibility due to the track layout, but the fact that nobody could see anything due to the spray kicked up by the other cars. This happened well down the Kemel straight. That race should not have started in those conditions, it's not like we don't all know the issues there with open wheel cars!!

But.... If anything needs to change there, it's some sort of soft, crash absorbing structure that captures the car and stops it bouncing straight off into the middle of the track. Back in the old days at Silverstone, they used to have wire catch fencing with wooden poles on the outside of woodcote which literally caught the car. Was a bugger to get the car out and wasn't the safest thing, but some modern interpretation of it would work well there.

https://www.motorsportimages.com/photo/1016177749-...

[Blib]

Girlfriend's perfect post.

[OnDaysLikeThese]

ridds said:

The trouble is that corner is inherently dangerous due to it being blind. The conditions made it more likely that there was a crash, but even if it had been clear and sunny, a car crashing and rebounding onto the track would have been invisible to someone following at full speed. That’s an unacceptable risk now that it has been highlighted by two fatalities.

It’s a very sad state of affairs, but it’s no excuse to vandalise an exciting and iconic corner on one of the few remaining classic F1 circuits.

Motorsport is dangerous, and the trade off for an incredibly exciting and potentially lucrative career. Drivers are more than welcome not to get in the car, they’re not conscripts.

Of course, you can take common sense measures like making the cars safe, yellow flags, etc. - but making everything a dull ‘Tilke drome’ would ruin the sport (and still not lead to perfect safety).

Edited by OnDaysLikeThese on Monday 3rd July 12:21

[WonkeyDonkey]

The crash wasn't at eau rouge/radillion, although the driver in P2 did lose it at the top but was thankfully avoided by everyone.

They need to stop the bunching up behind safety cars. Especially in conditions like this, they should use more VSCs or slow zones to reduce the speed but keep the gaps at a sensible distance.

[mat205125]

entropy said:

Ideally there should be massive run-off extending past Radillion, pit exit and past the kink onto the Kemmel Straight but I am aware of circuit specific issues. Currently it's a funnel section and we've seen cars bouncing back on the track and/or parked at the run off. There's not enough time react and dodge the ensuing carnage that occurs. Makes me wonder this will ever make a return in some form:

I'd put money on this kind of alteration being pushed forward before the F1 race this month.

[24lemons]

There was talk of tightening the apex of Eau Rouge last winter or the one before, as part of the works to improve safety. I remember seeing an onboard from a track day where a tighter line had been painted on the circuit. I don’t know if anything came of that.

Are we seeing the end of racing in the wet approaching? Ever since Bianchi’s accident, race organisers have seemingly become more cautious about allowing races to run under green flags in wet conditions. This will only make them more reluctant to wave a green in the future.

[Petrus1983]

It's always sad when a young driver loses their life - but it's inherent in the sport and part of the excitement of it too. Hopefully they can work out a way to increase side protection.

FWIW if I was the race director I wouldn't have allowed a junior category to race in those conditions.

[Olivera]

I'm confused at some of the comments here, they made huge changes to Eau Rouge last year:

Before:



After:

[krisdelta]

Poor lad, RIP.

The conditions yesterday at the time of the incident, seemed to be totally inappropriate for racing. Is the "this is safe" threshold too high? At LM they had plenty of running behind the safety car due to weather that "seemed" less severe than yesterday's weather at SPA.