Race car suggestions please!
Discussion
I'm looking at possibly moving on to another racing series and would like some unbiased opinions.
As a disclaimer to anyone involved in running my current championship, it is great - no complaints, I just fancy rear wheel drive, faster cars and a change.
This is what I'm after:
* Car purchase cost of around £10k (or preferably less!).
* Reasonable running costs. No frequent £2k engine rebuilds please! Or equally people spending loads on an engine and then winning as a result. Also, no stupid race entry fees. One championship that I shan't mention charges £500 per race - yeah right!
* Rear wheel drive
* Easy to work on. I'm not ruling out monocoque saloon cars, but it would be nice not to have all that bodywork in the way when you're trying to work on the car.
* Not too slow. I'd rather drive something with more than 200bhp/tonne.
* Practical - I don't want to have to put different wheels on just to drive the car across a bumpy paddock or load it onto a trailer!
* A good social scene - friendly competitors that see motor racing as a sport, not a life or death struggle to become famous! A decent dinner dance at the end of the year can really round the season off nicely as well.
* Safe: I would like to race with decent drivers that don't cause accidents through aggression or incompetance! Also, if I do get unlucky and have an accident, I'd rather walk away without crutches! I don't race for the adrenalin fix or the danger - just because I love it.
* Longevity - I don't want to get into a fly-by-night series that will leave me with a worthless car and nowhere to race it after a couple of years.
* No classes - I'm not keen on getting the fastest lap, pole position or winning the race if everyone other than my fellow competitors thinks I've come 4th!
So, any ideas? I've got some, but I won't cloud your judgement by posting them now.
As a disclaimer to anyone involved in running my current championship, it is great - no complaints, I just fancy rear wheel drive, faster cars and a change.
This is what I'm after:
* Car purchase cost of around £10k (or preferably less!).
* Reasonable running costs. No frequent £2k engine rebuilds please! Or equally people spending loads on an engine and then winning as a result. Also, no stupid race entry fees. One championship that I shan't mention charges £500 per race - yeah right!
* Rear wheel drive
* Easy to work on. I'm not ruling out monocoque saloon cars, but it would be nice not to have all that bodywork in the way when you're trying to work on the car.
* Not too slow. I'd rather drive something with more than 200bhp/tonne.
* Practical - I don't want to have to put different wheels on just to drive the car across a bumpy paddock or load it onto a trailer!
* A good social scene - friendly competitors that see motor racing as a sport, not a life or death struggle to become famous! A decent dinner dance at the end of the year can really round the season off nicely as well.
* Safe: I would like to race with decent drivers that don't cause accidents through aggression or incompetance! Also, if I do get unlucky and have an accident, I'd rather walk away without crutches! I don't race for the adrenalin fix or the danger - just because I love it.
* Longevity - I don't want to get into a fly-by-night series that will leave me with a worthless car and nowhere to race it after a couple of years.
* No classes - I'm not keen on getting the fastest lap, pole position or winning the race if everyone other than my fellow competitors thinks I've come 4th!
So, any ideas? I've got some, but I won't cloud your judgement by posting them now.
I am biased but the Ginetta Championship does appear to meet almost all of your criteria.
* Car purchase cost of around £10k (or preferably less!).
second hand you would be looking at around £9k at the moment and there are a few cars out there
* Reasonable running costs. No frequent £2k engine rebuilds please! Or equally people spending loads on an engine and then winning as a result. Also, no stupid race entry fees. One championship that I shan't mention charges £500 per race - yeah right!
Engines are sealed so can't be twiddled with. A replacement should you blow it (unlikely) is around £800. Entry fees were £500 per weekend this year - but that does get almost two hours of track time (qualifying and three races). Should be much less next year, especially if you can pay for the season in advance
* Rear wheel drive
but of course
* Easy to work on. I'm not ruling out monocoque saloon cars, but it would be nice not to have all that bodywork in the way when you're trying to work on the car.
Very. We rebuilt ours ourself after a moment at Castle Combe last year. The bonnet covers the whole of the front of the car, so lifts straight off to get easy access to everything. The rear is also pretty easy to get at. Changing a gearbox is a doddle, it is only the diff (which we have never touched) which needs a bit of panel removal to get at
* Not too slow. I'd rather drive something with more than 200bhp/tonne.
a bit close here - but around 150 bhp in a 750 kg car (with driver) just hits it. They are also quicker than a 360 road car around Brands GP, so not too sluggish
* Practical - I don't want to have to put different wheels on just to drive the car across a bumpy paddock or load it onto a trailer!
100mm ride height or else
* A good social scene - friendly competitors that see motor racing as a sport, not a life or death struggle to become famous! A decent dinner dance at the end of the year can really round the season off nicely as well.
about half of the competitors run themselves, and everybody knows each other. There are even a couple of series BBQ's during the year.
* Safe: I would like to race with decent drivers that don't cause accidents through aggression or incompetance! Also, if I do get unlucky and have an accident, I'd rather walk away without crutches! I don't race for the adrenalin fix or the danger - just because I love it.
I still look at the data trace of my crash at Combe last year - no matter how much I zoom in, the line is still vertical from 95mph to nothing. OK, the chassis was totalled, but I jumped out and over the barriers no problem. Very safe chassis, and the driving is pretty good. OK, there is the odd incident (I got collected by a couple of guys behind playing chicken into Abbey at Silverstone last weekend), but I have had no repairs to make until now, and the rather sorry looking bonnet is fixable
* Longevity - I don't want to get into a fly-by-night series that will leave me with a worthless car and nowhere to race it after a couple of years.
biggest single make series in the UK. Part of the Dunlop best of British festivals next year. The company pretty much only does racing, and also has a junior series to support the seniors
* No classes - I'm not keen on getting the fastest lap, pole position or winning the race if everyone other than my fellow competitors thinks I've come 4th!
absolutely not - grids should stabilise at between 30 and 34 for next year
Also, add on television coverage (which is sometimes nice) and Dunlop track side support (which is invaluable) and you are on to a winner.
Rich
* Car purchase cost of around £10k (or preferably less!).
second hand you would be looking at around £9k at the moment and there are a few cars out there
* Reasonable running costs. No frequent £2k engine rebuilds please! Or equally people spending loads on an engine and then winning as a result. Also, no stupid race entry fees. One championship that I shan't mention charges £500 per race - yeah right!
Engines are sealed so can't be twiddled with. A replacement should you blow it (unlikely) is around £800. Entry fees were £500 per weekend this year - but that does get almost two hours of track time (qualifying and three races). Should be much less next year, especially if you can pay for the season in advance
* Rear wheel drive
but of course
* Easy to work on. I'm not ruling out monocoque saloon cars, but it would be nice not to have all that bodywork in the way when you're trying to work on the car.
Very. We rebuilt ours ourself after a moment at Castle Combe last year. The bonnet covers the whole of the front of the car, so lifts straight off to get easy access to everything. The rear is also pretty easy to get at. Changing a gearbox is a doddle, it is only the diff (which we have never touched) which needs a bit of panel removal to get at
* Not too slow. I'd rather drive something with more than 200bhp/tonne.
a bit close here - but around 150 bhp in a 750 kg car (with driver) just hits it. They are also quicker than a 360 road car around Brands GP, so not too sluggish
* Practical - I don't want to have to put different wheels on just to drive the car across a bumpy paddock or load it onto a trailer!
100mm ride height or else
* A good social scene - friendly competitors that see motor racing as a sport, not a life or death struggle to become famous! A decent dinner dance at the end of the year can really round the season off nicely as well.
about half of the competitors run themselves, and everybody knows each other. There are even a couple of series BBQ's during the year.
* Safe: I would like to race with decent drivers that don't cause accidents through aggression or incompetance! Also, if I do get unlucky and have an accident, I'd rather walk away without crutches! I don't race for the adrenalin fix or the danger - just because I love it.
I still look at the data trace of my crash at Combe last year - no matter how much I zoom in, the line is still vertical from 95mph to nothing. OK, the chassis was totalled, but I jumped out and over the barriers no problem. Very safe chassis, and the driving is pretty good. OK, there is the odd incident (I got collected by a couple of guys behind playing chicken into Abbey at Silverstone last weekend), but I have had no repairs to make until now, and the rather sorry looking bonnet is fixable
* Longevity - I don't want to get into a fly-by-night series that will leave me with a worthless car and nowhere to race it after a couple of years.
biggest single make series in the UK. Part of the Dunlop best of British festivals next year. The company pretty much only does racing, and also has a junior series to support the seniors
* No classes - I'm not keen on getting the fastest lap, pole position or winning the race if everyone other than my fellow competitors thinks I've come 4th!
absolutely not - grids should stabilise at between 30 and 34 for next year
Also, add on television coverage (which is sometimes nice) and Dunlop track side support (which is invaluable) and you are on to a winner.
Rich
All sounds very good 
I had a close look at a race car at the Autosport show in January. The guy that showed it to me seemed very friendly and was only to happy to show me the car and tell me everthing about it. He offered to lift the bonnet off and show me how simple everything was, which really sold it to me.
The one thing that puts me off is those enormous entry fees though! I know it is good value for money for the amount of track time that you get, but at the end of the day it is still £500 a meeting, which is 4 times the cost of a Caterham race to enter, and 3 times the cost of the MGCC (currently under fire for high entry fees).
I'm on the committee for my present championship, and we discussed double headers, and the general consensus was that qualifying and one decent race was a) enough for most people to call it a fun weekend and b) enough for the cars and our pockets.
Ginettas do sound good though, and IIRC the cars are only £12,995 new aren't they?!
I'm very tempted..
I had a close look at a race car at the Autosport show in January. The guy that showed it to me seemed very friendly and was only to happy to show me the car and tell me everthing about it. He offered to lift the bonnet off and show me how simple everything was, which really sold it to me.
The one thing that puts me off is those enormous entry fees though! I know it is good value for money for the amount of track time that you get, but at the end of the day it is still £500 a meeting, which is 4 times the cost of a Caterham race to enter, and 3 times the cost of the MGCC (currently under fire for high entry fees).
I'm on the committee for my present championship, and we discussed double headers, and the general consensus was that qualifying and one decent race was a) enough for most people to call it a fun weekend and b) enough for the cars and our pockets.
Ginettas do sound good though, and IIRC the cars are only £12,995 new aren't they?!
I'm very tempted..
GreenV8S said:
Have you considered the TVRCC Challenge? It seems to meet most of your criteria.
It has crossed my mind, yes. I had a look at the website. I was trying to get an idea of running costs - I fear that they might be quite high. Also, lap times and grid sizes? I found one race on the MST website, but the TVRs seemed to be lumped in with another series, and the fastest lap around Brands Indy was 58 seconds!!
Any thoughts?
RobM77 said:
Have you considered the TVRCC Challenge? It seems to meet most of your criteria.
It has crossed my mind, yes. I had a look at the website. I was trying to get an idea of running costs - I fear that they might be quite high. Also, lap times and grid sizes? I found one race on the MST website, but the TVRs seemed to be lumped in with another series, and the fastest lap around Brands Indy was 58 seconds!!
Any thoughts?
Was that this years series opener? If so, yeah it was pants. This year has been very low on numbers, next year the series is going have some fresh blood, myself included, and some guys getting back into the series who have taken a sebatical.
I think the series is to be run as part of the Tuscan Challenge next year, the best person to speak to is Graham Walden. You can pick up a ready to race Tasmin for about £5k, I'm prepping a Chimaera so my budget is a little more than that. If I can help any more get intouch.
Regards
Iain
Have a look at the British kit car series they have a couple of divisions and you could start at the lower level money wise and work your way up to the bigger engine category if you want to up your budget.
People do rent cars and the prices I have heard can be very cost effective.
There are many different cars on the market and 10k will get you alot of car for that.
Engines can do seasons not just races if you look after them!
From what I remember its a 750motor club championship.
I would have to say I'm very much biased when it comes to the car side of things
Kamala racing is looking at this championship for next year as they have a new model coming out.
(formaly www.kamalacars.com)
Car wise if its in Which Kit or Total Kit Car then its out there.
Hope this gives you something else to think about.
People do rent cars and the prices I have heard can be very cost effective.
There are many different cars on the market and 10k will get you alot of car for that.
Engines can do seasons not just races if you look after them!
From what I remember its a 750motor club championship.
I would have to say I'm very much biased when it comes to the car side of things
Kamala racing is looking at this championship for next year as they have a new model coming out.
(formaly www.kamalacars.com)
Car wise if its in Which Kit or Total Kit Car then its out there.
Hope this gives you something else to think about.
RobM77 said:
Have you considered the TVRCC Challenge? It seems to meet most of your criteria.
It has crossed my mind, yes. I had a look at the website. I was trying to get an idea of running costs - I fear that they might be quite high. Also, lap times and grid sizes? I found one race on the MST website, but the TVRs seemed to be lumped in with another series, and the fastest lap around Brands Indy was 58 seconds!!
Any thoughts?
Did someone call....
Grid sizes were a bit of a mare this year, with lots of cars almost finished or blown up arghh...
If your looking at class A which is about 200bhp ( 150 per ton at the wheels) I can point you in the direction of 2 nicley prepped tasmins for about 5k a piece.
running costs well i've run the Tusacan on 7k this year... thats food travel entry and spares plus some testing...
mind you my tyres are very very *hagged..
It is multi class but i thing most of the tasmins will be back in class A next season and they are obviously different from the Tuscans and Griffs.
Drop me a line if you want to know more or some of us are at snetterton for a bit of a laugh on Sunday
cheers
Graham
(mail through my profile if you want to know more)
race said:It's the 750MC Kit Car Series, and is split into 2 classes. A is for upto 3.5l V8, plus smaller mulit-valve engines with some modification allowed, and B is for standard 1.8 Ford Zetecs, running twin carbs.
Have a look at the British kit car series they have a couple of divisions and you could start at the lower level money wise and work your way up to the bigger engine category if you want to up your budget.
People do rent cars and the prices I have heard can be very cost effective.
There are many different cars on the market and 10k will get you alot of car for that.
Engines can do seasons not just races if you look after them!
From what I remember its a 750motor club championship.
I would have to say I'm very much biased when it comes to the car side of things
Kamala racing is looking at this championship for next year as they have a new model coming out.
(formaly www.kamalacars.com)
Car wise if its in Which Kit or Total Kit Car then its out there.
Hope this gives you something else to think about.
More details are on the website www.750mc.co.uk
You can get a decent car for £5-7k, engine rebuilds are pretty rare (I've not had one yet with my Zetec), and it is a very friendly series (and club for that matter).
There are one or two teams who hire out cars, and one who I can recommend is Mike Topp Motorsport
I've been racing in this series for a number of years now, so any questions, feel free to ask
As an alternative - the series I'd go for in your shoes is the Max5 one. Stock Mk1 MX5s - pretty much.
Apparently a car is 7K ish (that's the price of a donor car and the allowed/compulsory mods).
Proper sports car racing on a level playing field - on the cheap.
If I ever get over my Porsche thing I'll be getting a 4WD, a "maxxed" MX5
and a trailer...
Apparently a car is 7K ish (that's the price of a donor car and the allowed/compulsory mods).
Proper sports car racing on a level playing field - on the cheap.
If I ever get over my Porsche thing I'll be getting a 4WD, a "maxxed" MX5
and a trailer...Westfield championship is worth considering. Meets just about all of your criteria. Faster than the Ginetta's.
www.wscrda.co.uk
www.barc.net
www.wscrda.co.uk
www.barc.net
Don said:
As an alternative - the series I'd go for in your shoes is the Max5 one. Stock Mk1 MX5s - pretty much.
Apparently a car is 7K ish (that's the price of a donor car and the allowed/compulsory mods).
Proper sports car racing on a level playing field - on the cheap.
If I ever get over my Porsche thing I'll be getting a 4WD, a "maxxed" MX5
I was going to suggest max5 series as well. But it's down on your power requirement (116bhp in a 900ish kg car). The good part is that engines are stock, and as a whole the car is very reliable. Mods are restricted etc. www.max5racing.com/
Munter said:
I was going to suggest max5 series as well. But it's down on your power requirement (116bhp in a 900ish kg car).
Sadly a total non starter for me. I say 'sadly' because you're dead right - a very good and well thought out championship. However, everybody has what they call 'slow', adequate, and fast, and sadly the MX5 comes into my slow category. A friend of mine let me drive his 140bhp one the other day, and I honestly couldn't tell the different in acceleration between it and my girlfriend's Nissan Micra! honestly!Thank you very much for all your suggestions. I've got quite a few championships to look into there. I will have a good look at them all.
I think that the best so far has to be Ginettas, but the race entry fees worry me somewhat. However, if I can get that back by owning a car that doesn't need constant attention and fiddling then it would be worth it.
I think that the best so far has to be Ginettas, but the race entry fees worry me somewhat. However, if I can get that back by owning a car that doesn't need constant attention and fiddling then it would be worth it.
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