Race car suggestions please!
Discussion
Ah, that's a hint as to why the races are so expensive to enter!
I don't want to say anything too negative about a club series (especially one I may join in '06 or '07!), but let's just say that the race entry was exactly double the second most expensive series that I looked at (the semi-pro level Powertrain R400 challenge).
I don't want to say anything too negative about a club series (especially one I may join in '06 or '07!), but let's just say that the race entry was exactly double the second most expensive series that I looked at (the semi-pro level Powertrain R400 challenge).
RobM77 said:
Ah, that's a hint as to why the races are so expensive to enter!
I don't want to say anything too negative about a club series (especially one I may join in '06 or '07!), but let's just say that the race entry was exactly double the second most expensive series that I looked at (the semi-pro level Powertrain R400 challenge).
Entry fees are emotive - Ginettas will go down a bit next year, but nothing has been released as yet, so I wouldn't budget for a massive cut just yet.
However, you really need to look at the bigger picture. For example, Martin could knock £100 off each entry, and add £600 to the cost of each bonnet, and would probably make a similar amount of money - and spares still wouldn't be expensive compared to, say, R400's. The business model used in this championship is recovery of costs where they arise, rather than looking at the whole picture - that is the job of the compeitors.
I can guarantee that Ginetta have lost money on entry fees this year - even with 30+ grids everywhere apart from Ireland - F3 / GT was expensive, but was the best card to be in (IMHO), especially last year if not this.
Obviously, with the entry fees, you are also paying for double headers, which if they are not your bag, then you essentially have to pay for more than you want. I would however mention that in any national championship, you will be travelling long distances for the weekends racing - is a single 10 minute sprint really worth all that?
I really don't think that there is a better value series, which is why I do it. I'm not sure that there are many 16 round championships that are cheaper full stop when everything is taken into account.
Finally, Dunlop are serious about their Great & British weekends for next year - they will therefore be well publicised, and hopefully well attended. To me anyway, a few thousand spectators make the difference between proper racing, and driving around a muddy field!
Rich
I agree completely. The entry fees are an initial shock, no-one can deny that, but the whole package is just fantastic. For example, the cost of a complete new engine is half the *minimum* spend on an ultimate budget engine build in my category of racing - as for what some of our guys spend... In addition to that the standard engine spec presumably means that engine refreshes are fairly infrequent.
Hi,
I'm not giving a completly unbiased view but I did spend a load of time looking at differend championships and as a result joined Formula Vee..
Has 205BHP/T as the engies develop ~95bhp and car and driver weigh 465 min.
Good lap time around the Brands Indy Circuit is approx 53sec.
Second hand cars from 2k upwards... good one 5Kish new 10K.
Access to all parts is easy as its a single seater and everything is there in front of you.
Running costs well think approx 350 a race... and obviously is run by the 750MC.
You get practice and normally a heat and a race. Entries average around 45ish and can be as high as 60 at the Silverstone festival.
Very active social scene... Vee Centre with prises on offer like highest grid mover etc.... and a big bash at the end of the season.
Everyone is more than willing to help... e.g. one of the mid field guys after hearing one of the frunt runners had a problem with his engine offered to strip his engine for the relevant part so the front runner could compete.
Only my view, depends if you areup for a single seater or not.
I'm not giving a completly unbiased view but I did spend a load of time looking at differend championships and as a result joined Formula Vee..
Has 205BHP/T as the engies develop ~95bhp and car and driver weigh 465 min.
Good lap time around the Brands Indy Circuit is approx 53sec.
Second hand cars from 2k upwards... good one 5Kish new 10K.
Access to all parts is easy as its a single seater and everything is there in front of you.
Running costs well think approx 350 a race... and obviously is run by the 750MC.
You get practice and normally a heat and a race. Entries average around 45ish and can be as high as 60 at the Silverstone festival.
Very active social scene... Vee Centre with prises on offer like highest grid mover etc.... and a big bash at the end of the season.
Everyone is more than willing to help... e.g. one of the mid field guys after hearing one of the frunt runners had a problem with his engine offered to strip his engine for the relevant part so the front runner could compete.
Only my view, depends if you areup for a single seater or not.
Since Chris J hasn't suggested Locosts, I will (He just cross posted to the Lcoost racing list)
Locost - Raced with the 750MC club. Caterham alike cars at much reduced cost.
Upsides -Incredibly friendly atmosphere. Championship winning capable cars for about 6k but mine cost £3.5 and I come about 15th from 35 but I'm a beginner. Double header races from £200-250 (we got 15mins qualifying and 4 races at Snetterton for £200). Repair cost pretty good if you can do a lot yourself (weld etc). Huge grids (we had 60 entries at Donington, and 38 at Snet for the last races of the season). Races are fantastically close (Commentator at Snet said the most exciting and close club racing in the UK). A new (well, full spec rebuilt) engine, dynoed and ready to drop in in £1600 - that should last at least 2-3 years with minor refurbing. Or make it yourself. Standard Yoko tyres last a season for £35/corner. Strict rules on engine and chassis attempts to keep costs down. Multiple manufactures of chassis and plastics keeps the cost way down (new nose cone £80, but I usually repair)
Downsides : Not huge power (83-84hp) in a 500kg car. Some Mk2 Escort parts become a little bit thin on ground, but most still pretty cheap.
You can't really get much cheaper than this unless you go to autocross.
James
www.jameslocost.co.uk, www.750mc.co.uk for piccies.
Locost - Raced with the 750MC club. Caterham alike cars at much reduced cost.
Upsides -Incredibly friendly atmosphere. Championship winning capable cars for about 6k but mine cost £3.5 and I come about 15th from 35 but I'm a beginner. Double header races from £200-250 (we got 15mins qualifying and 4 races at Snetterton for £200). Repair cost pretty good if you can do a lot yourself (weld etc). Huge grids (we had 60 entries at Donington, and 38 at Snet for the last races of the season). Races are fantastically close (Commentator at Snet said the most exciting and close club racing in the UK). A new (well, full spec rebuilt) engine, dynoed and ready to drop in in £1600 - that should last at least 2-3 years with minor refurbing. Or make it yourself. Standard Yoko tyres last a season for £35/corner. Strict rules on engine and chassis attempts to keep costs down. Multiple manufactures of chassis and plastics keeps the cost way down (new nose cone £80, but I usually repair)
Downsides : Not huge power (83-84hp) in a 500kg car. Some Mk2 Escort parts become a little bit thin on ground, but most still pretty cheap.
You can't really get much cheaper than this unless you go to autocross.
James
www.jameslocost.co.uk, www.750mc.co.uk for piccies.
A great thread - I joined PH specifically to research this question!
One series I've been looking into, which I've not yet seen mentioned, is the Mid-engined Sportscar Series - www.midenginedsportscars.com
It may not fit your requirements entirely however, as there are two classes ('production' and 'motorsport') and I suspect to be really competitive you'd have to spend a tad more than £10k. An Exige would be a good choice as a starting point, although it could be done more cheaply - for example, I'd be interested to see how competitive a race-prepped MR2 turbo would be (standard ~260bhp).
One series I've been looking into, which I've not yet seen mentioned, is the Mid-engined Sportscar Series - www.midenginedsportscars.com
It may not fit your requirements entirely however, as there are two classes ('production' and 'motorsport') and I suspect to be really competitive you'd have to spend a tad more than £10k. An Exige would be a good choice as a starting point, although it could be done more cheaply - for example, I'd be interested to see how competitive a race-prepped MR2 turbo would be (standard ~260bhp).
Looks like some interesting stuff in the mid engined series - but some of those budgets must be well over what the priginal poster wants to pay.
Looking at the list of cars entered, I don't think there was one you could get competitive for less than £18-20k - the Nobles are way more than that, never mind the F355's!!.
The MR2 suggested may come in under £10k, but would it be competitive?
What about Britcar??
James
Looking at the list of cars entered, I don't think there was one you could get competitive for less than £18-20k - the Nobles are way more than that, never mind the F355's!!.
The MR2 suggested may come in under £10k, but would it be competitive?
What about Britcar??
James
Ive took the liberty too cut a paste part of an RGB race report for you too digest, may give you an idea as too the speed and nimbleness of the cars, some of these cars change hands for well under £10k with engines straight from the breakers (mines been in 3 seasons untouched) costs can be kept under control too.
Before the RGBs went out the Roadsports Championship had their qualifying session. The Roadsports Championship is an eclectic mix of sports cars, including Nobles, Porsches, a Morgan +8, a TVR Tuscan etc. At the front of the grid the cars will be costing well in excess of £50,000, and yet the pole winner (Noble) wouldn’t have made the top three in RGB! Furthermore, the third quickest Roadsports runner in a Noble M12 would have qualified fifteenth in RGB!
This does illustrate just how quick the RGB cars are, and whilst no one will ever say motorsport is cheap, the RGB Championship does represent incredibly quick and competitive racing for the money.
Before the RGBs went out the Roadsports Championship had their qualifying session. The Roadsports Championship is an eclectic mix of sports cars, including Nobles, Porsches, a Morgan +8, a TVR Tuscan etc. At the front of the grid the cars will be costing well in excess of £50,000, and yet the pole winner (Noble) wouldn’t have made the top three in RGB! Furthermore, the third quickest Roadsports runner in a Noble M12 would have qualified fifteenth in RGB!
This does illustrate just how quick the RGB cars are, and whilst no one will ever say motorsport is cheap, the RGB Championship does represent incredibly quick and competitive racing for the money.
pablo said:
What about Britcar??
James
it looks very very expensive thats what!!!! i thought we were trying to keep this under or around £10k.... I would have thought for Britcar you are talking double that at least!....
The reckoning is on £5k PER RACE in Produciton S1!!! That's probably a bit high, but it would still be at least £3k including entry, fuel, etc. And that would be in a Civic or Clio...
Having read through this thread (and lots of associated websites!) the Westfield championship and the RGB series both look very interesting. Unfortunately, both of their websites are fairly uninformative regarding the entry costs and the format of each round - length of practice/qualifying, length / number of races, that sort of thing (and the Westfield website is broken, too!)
Would anyone with experience of these series be able to give a run-down of the pros and particularly the cons, together with the average costs involved, please?
(Is there any political unrest within either series that might be relevant; are there ever problems actually getting a race?)
Would anyone with experience of these series be able to give a run-down of the pros and particularly the cons, together with the average costs involved, please?
(Is there any political unrest within either series that might be relevant; are there ever problems actually getting a race?)
mft,
Can't give you the Westfield/RGB info but I suspect Caterham Graduates are similar ( my series)
Club membership £250/year and covers catering at all races and technical support- so effectively free food and a team of guys to fix your car if needed at every event
Race £160/ double header £240. Normally 12-14 round per year ( drop 2-3)This includes qualifying and a 20 min race
Test days about £150- but varies
Fuel say £60
3 sets of tyres per year at £240/set
On top of that you have fuel to get there and accomodation ( if you choose not to camp at the paddock)
Sealed engines but allow for one refresh per year at £350 plus a few sets of brake pads, oil etc
I reckon about £6k for a full season ( which included Spa this year)
Hope that helps
MikeW
Can't give you the Westfield/RGB info but I suspect Caterham Graduates are similar ( my series)
Club membership £250/year and covers catering at all races and technical support- so effectively free food and a team of guys to fix your car if needed at every event
Race £160/ double header £240. Normally 12-14 round per year ( drop 2-3)This includes qualifying and a 20 min race
Test days about £150- but varies
Fuel say £60
3 sets of tyres per year at £240/set
On top of that you have fuel to get there and accomodation ( if you choose not to camp at the paddock)
Sealed engines but allow for one refresh per year at £350 plus a few sets of brake pads, oil etc
I reckon about £6k for a full season ( which included Spa this year)
Hope that helps
MikeW
Email me if anyone wants information on Locost racing or Locosts in general (jhughes at linx dot co dot uk) - just finished my first full season, so in a position to give a beginners pov, plus in depth knowledge of how much it costs to fix them. Unfortunately.
Jon Ison races in RGB's so he is a source there.
Sorry about the Britcar comment - hadn't realised they were quite that expensive....
James
Jon Ison races in RGB's so he is a source there.
Sorry about the Britcar comment - hadn't realised they were quite that expensive....
James
said:
(and the Westfield website is broken, too!)
Hope you don't mean the wscrda one. It seems ok to me. Please let me know if it doesn't work for you.
Any specific questions about the Westfield championship you can email me 'keith at wscrda dot co dot uk'. I'll do my best to help.
MikeW's cost break down for the Caterham series looks very similar to the Westfield. Except there is only usually 10-12 rounds in ours. No Spa unfortunately. We use ACB10's so these are a bit more expensive at £400 a set, but I recon on only 2 sets per season. 6K sounds about right for a full season DIY. Going to professional preparation companies for chassis/engine obviously adds to this.
>> Edited by Keith Scarfe on Wednesday 26th October 16:06
I've just done the Caterham academy on a budget (because I'm a cheapskate) And I was in a championship winning position with 5 laps to go, shame I'm so heavy footed....
For £2k
Assuming my costs remain similar as a percentage of everyone elses I should be able to do RSB or Supers next year for between £3-4k. Supers cars are available from about £11
Worth bearing in mind I don't mind camping, I only tested once at each circuit, I built and maintained the car myself, and didn't have any major incidents (couple of wings)
For £2k
Assuming my costs remain similar as a percentage of everyone elses I should be able to do RSB or Supers next year for between £3-4k. Supers cars are available from about £11
Worth bearing in mind I don't mind camping, I only tested once at each circuit, I built and maintained the car myself, and didn't have any major incidents (couple of wings)
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