Raikkonen vs Alonso - Who's Best?
Discussion
I can't see how you could possibly say other than that Alonso is miles better. Raikkonen seems to show flashes of speed, but that's not enough to win races by itself and over the course of a championship its worth sod all. I see he made another error last Sunday.
Kimi does seem to have the car that breaks too often, often enough to gain the accolade of being 'unlucky', which is not something I buy into. He doesn't seem to have the nous to drive quickly, consistently and inteligently enough to bring the car home. I realise that many things are out of his hands, but the truly great drivers somehow have the knack of turning their fortune - and the fortune of the car - around.
For my money Alonso is on a higher plane than the other drivers at the moment, and has been for some time. That doesn't mean he can claim to be better than Schumacher though, he's got a hell of a long way to go to prove that.
If, and I say if, we see a swap of seats between Kimi and Fernando next year, (and lets face it, stranger things have happened) I reckon it won't be long before Fernando is winning again. I'd definitely wager very good money that at the very least the reliability of the McLaren improves.
Kimi does seem to have the car that breaks too often, often enough to gain the accolade of being 'unlucky', which is not something I buy into. He doesn't seem to have the nous to drive quickly, consistently and inteligently enough to bring the car home. I realise that many things are out of his hands, but the truly great drivers somehow have the knack of turning their fortune - and the fortune of the car - around.
For my money Alonso is on a higher plane than the other drivers at the moment, and has been for some time. That doesn't mean he can claim to be better than Schumacher though, he's got a hell of a long way to go to prove that.
If, and I say if, we see a swap of seats between Kimi and Fernando next year, (and lets face it, stranger things have happened) I reckon it won't be long before Fernando is winning again. I'd definitely wager very good money that at the very least the reliability of the McLaren improves.
Despite all the 'certainty' that Kimi is going to Ferrari, I'd love to see him at Renault next year as it would provide a great comparison with Alonso.
Personally I think Kimi is the quickest out there, but Alonso is the best. Perhaps with this line up next year and with a reliable Renault and quick McLaren, we could see a more level playing field between them. But then things never quite seem to work out that way in F1, do they?
Personally I think Kimi is the quickest out there, but Alonso is the best. Perhaps with this line up next year and with a reliable Renault and quick McLaren, we could see a more level playing field between them. But then things never quite seem to work out that way in F1, do they?
Heebeegeetee said:
He doesn't seem to have the nous to drive quickly, consistently and inteligently enough to bring the car home.
Although he did notice the loose drain cover at the Chinese Grand Prix last year, and drove around it the next lap. Montoya didn't, and didn't. On current form you'd have to pick Alonso, because he doesn't seem able to do anything wrong - I think a change of team might be just the thing to bring the best out of Kimi.
It's a really tough comparison as F1 results are predefined by the machinery to such a huge degree.
You have to rate Alonso as he, like Shcumi senior, has proven his pedigree by being the best in the best car.
At times (last season) Raikkonen has had the best car and dominated in the same way Alonso has. Mc/Merc have not provided him with a championship winning platform with any degree of consistency.
I've seen more daring moves from the Finn though but the Spaniard hasn't been in a position that often where he needs to take the risk and can afford to play a tactical game.
Both top quality and a winning package would see either as champion. Put them in the same car and it'd be 50-50 who'd come out on top.
You have to rate Alonso as he, like Shcumi senior, has proven his pedigree by being the best in the best car.
At times (last season) Raikkonen has had the best car and dominated in the same way Alonso has. Mc/Merc have not provided him with a championship winning platform with any degree of consistency.
I've seen more daring moves from the Finn though but the Spaniard hasn't been in a position that often where he needs to take the risk and can afford to play a tactical game.
Both top quality and a winning package would see either as champion. Put them in the same car and it'd be 50-50 who'd come out on top.
I think Alonso is fantastic and at the moment is unstopable. But my money would go on Kimi, he is sensational.
At the moment, Renault are crusing. i think they have an answer to anything that Mclaren or Ferrari can throw at them. Thus enabling Alonso to do whatever he wants. I dont want to take anything away from him though, i think he is perfectly capable of wringing every last drop of performance out of a car.
But, in a parraleel universe, if Kimi and Fernando were in each others cars this year, i think it would be the same story. Kimi crusing to win after win and Fernando pushing like hell (and making the odd mistake)
my 2 pennys
At the moment, Renault are crusing. i think they have an answer to anything that Mclaren or Ferrari can throw at them. Thus enabling Alonso to do whatever he wants. I dont want to take anything away from him though, i think he is perfectly capable of wringing every last drop of performance out of a car.
But, in a parraleel universe, if Kimi and Fernando were in each others cars this year, i think it would be the same story. Kimi crusing to win after win and Fernando pushing like hell (and making the odd mistake)
my 2 pennys
I like Kimi alot when he drives well he is amazing, but for a publicity side, he unfortunately comes across as very withdrawn and grumpy, abit like alot of the finnish rally drivers, Gronholm in particular. Alonso amazing talent and good with the publicity. It is a job to get a grip on just how good these guys are, I went karting with Alonso many years ago, and he was taking 5+ seconds a lap from me, in identical karts, amazing.
Looking at how Alonso has so comprehensively bettered Fisichella in the last 25 races, it is difficult to argue that his success is just down to the car.
In the same period, on a number of occasions Montoya has outshone Raikkonen. One can even recall an article in the British motorsport press late last year in which an "authority" asserted that Montoya's overall driving in '05 had been as good as Kimi's!
As for Alonso's moves having been less daring than Raikkonen's, the former's overtake of MS on the outside of 130R last year was as ballsy as they get.
Alonso moved house from Spain to Oxford to be near his team. Raikkonen moved house from Finland to Switzerland to be near his...accountant?
Alonso's effectiveness reminds one of (an honest version of) M. Schumacher's. Raikkonen's effectiveness reminds one of Mansell's.
Seven titles v one.
In the same period, on a number of occasions Montoya has outshone Raikkonen. One can even recall an article in the British motorsport press late last year in which an "authority" asserted that Montoya's overall driving in '05 had been as good as Kimi's!
As for Alonso's moves having been less daring than Raikkonen's, the former's overtake of MS on the outside of 130R last year was as ballsy as they get.
Alonso moved house from Spain to Oxford to be near his team. Raikkonen moved house from Finland to Switzerland to be near his...accountant?
Alonso's effectiveness reminds one of (an honest version of) M. Schumacher's. Raikkonen's effectiveness reminds one of Mansell's.
Seven titles v one.
If I were a team boss choosing my driver I'd choose Alonso simply because he's already proven himself to be capable of winning the championship. Personally I've always preffered Raikkonen though; he's my favourite driver after Coulthard. Along with Schumi and Alonso, Raikkonen is a driver who always seems to be able to wring out the maximum performance from his car on demand. He does make mistakes but as Peat rightly pointed out he's under more pressure than Alonso at the moment. Anyway, all drivers cock up at some point e.g. Alonso hitting the wall in Canada last year and Schumi binning it in Brazil in 2003.
flemke said:
Alonso's effectiveness reminds one of (an honest version of) M. Schumacher's. Raikkonen's effectiveness reminds one of Mansell's.
Seven titles v one.
Interesting comparison. Moreover, both Raikkonen and Mansell are about as interesting to watch out of the car as each other...and my socks. But, I know who I enjoyed seeing more in a racing car - for all his histrionics, moaning, fluffed attempts and that moustache, you knew you'd get your money's worth with Mansell - that he'd put on a show. Unfaltering efficiency is deeply impressive but, ultimately, boring to watch after a while.
stumartin said:
Interesting comparison. Moreover, both Raikkonen and Mansell are about as interesting to watch out of the car as each other...and my socks. But, I know who I enjoyed seeing more in a racing car - for all his histrionics, moaning, fluffed attempts and that moustache, you knew you'd get your money's worth with Mansell - that he'd put on a show. Unfaltering efficiency is deeply impressive but, ultimately, boring to watch after a while.
Totally agree. When he's on it - which in fairness is most of the time - Raikkonen is scintillating.
The question was, If you were one of the three currently top constructors, would you rather have FA or KR as your driver?
Ron, Flav and the nail-biter might like to be entertained if it came at no cost whatever, but their mission is to win championships. That's why, on present evidence, you'd have to go for Alonso.
flemke said:
stumartin said:
Interesting comparison. Moreover, both Raikkonen and Mansell are about as interesting to watch out of the car as each other...and my socks. But, I know who I enjoyed seeing more in a racing car - for all his histrionics, moaning, fluffed attempts and that moustache, you knew you'd get your money's worth with Mansell - that he'd put on a show. Unfaltering efficiency is deeply impressive but, ultimately, boring to watch after a while.
Totally agree. When he's on it - which in fairness is most of the time - Raikkonen is scintillating.
The question was, If you were one of the three currently top constructors, would you rather have FA or KR as your driver?
Ron, Flav and the nail-biter might like to be entertained if it came at no cost whatever, but their mission is to win championships. That's why, on present evidence, you'd have to go for Alonso.
Also agree - I wasn't pretending to answer the question
If money was no object, why not hire both? That'd at least generate some intense competition, and reveal if Raikkonen is the orchestrator of his own misfortune..
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