The Turkish GP thread

[rick.e]

fidgits said:

Ferrari and Schumacher are the reason team orders were outlawed!

if Schumi had beaten Massa into the first corner or passed on track - then he could've been first...


the rules are you cant pass under a safety car - so it would've been illegal to swap them in the pits...

Edited by fidgits on Sunday 27th August 14:58

No it wouldn't. Alonso passed Schumi in the pits under the safety car!

[sstein]

I didnt mean pass under the safety car, I meant leave Massa to do another lap and get Schumacher serviced and back out, he is the one fighting for a championship. I think common sense has to tell you to compromise Massa's race rather than Schueys!

-

Stuart

[fidgits]

rick.e said:

fidgits said:

Ferrari and Schumacher are the reason team orders were outlawed!

if Schumi had beaten Massa into the first corner or passed on track - then he could've been first...


the rules are you cant pass under a safety car - so it would've been illegal to swap them in the pits...

Edited by fidgits on Sunday 27th August 14:58

No it wouldn't. Alonso passed Schumi in the pits under the safety car!

schumi was stationary - Alonso wasnt - schumi would've have to pass massa when both cars were travelling (unless they ordered massa to drive 'off the circuit'..

Besides, as Ross Braun said, had they done the swap, then there would've been official complaints, and they would've lost even more popularity...

At the end of the day, Schumacher could've passed Alonso on circuit had he been a good enough racer... he didnt, he deserved to lose the 2 championship points.

[rick.e]

fidgits said:

rick.e said:

fidgits said:

Edited by fidgits on Sunday 27th August 14:58

Besides, as Ross Braun said, had they done the swap, then there would've been official complaints, and they would've lost even more popularity...

At the end of the day, Schumacher could've passed Alonso on circuit had he been a good enough racer... he didnt, he deserved to lose the 2 championship points.

Agree with your second point, he deserved 3rd at best.

Ferrari have never seemed to mind about loss of popularity in the past. Had Schumi got past with only a lap to go it does seem likely that Massa would have slowed right up. That would have been equally blatant and there would have been rumblings in the press. But in all the dirty tricks they have played in the past, for whatever reason their fans stay loyal.

[D_Mike]

JonRB said:

I reckon that the next 6 laps are going to be fairly pivotal for the championship.

Edit: Hmmm. I reckon James Allen agrees - he's saying pretty much the same thing now.

Edited by JonRB on Sunday 27th August 14:23

It was great to watch the championship essentially decided by two cars nose to tail and racing for it.

schumacher blew it at one corner in particular - into one turn (???) alonso made a mistake and schumacher tried to pass him on the exit of that corner, and again into turn 8. He should have just sat on Alonso's tail up the hairpin at the end of the lap and got him there. I think that was the moment that decided the world championship.

[fidgits]

sstein said:

I didnt mean pass under the safety car, I meant leave Massa to do another lap and get Schumacher serviced and back out, he is the one fighting for a championship. I think common sense has to tell you to compromise Massa's race rather than Schueys!

Well - if they had wanted Schumi first on the road - they could've left massa 'on track' thus giving Michael the 'relative' lead road position from Alonso - but because they chose not to comprimise Massa, they comprimised Michael - I fail to see why you are so outraged by it?

[D_Mike]

I think people are being (and I hate to say this) slightly harsh on schumacher. His car was very slow around the corner that essentially led up to the only real overtaking spot on the track, so the fact that he couldn't pass alonso despite a much faster car over the whole lap is due to his car being slow in the area that counts for enabling a pass.

[sstein]

fidgits said:

sstein said:

I didnt mean pass under the safety car, I meant leave Massa to do another lap and get Schumacher serviced and back out, he is the one fighting for a championship. I think common sense has to tell you to compromise Massa's race rather than Schueys!

Well - if they had wanted Schumi first on the road - they could've left massa 'on track' thus giving Michael the 'relative' lead road position from Alonso - but because they chose not to comprimise Massa, they comprimised Michael - I fail to see why you are so outraged by it?

That is what I am frustrated at, they compromised Schumachers race instead of Massas! WHY? I dont get it! I couldn't have cared less if Massa finished down the field, priority for Ferrari HAS to be getting Michael ahead of Alonso at all times, if that means Massa gets shafted then so be it. IMO. I dont think we will agree on this.

-

Stuart

[tvrforever]

nope priority has to be getting rid of the smug git!

Well done Massa - glad to see he won and had true emotion about it, top guy

And roll on Alsono for anther championship - great guy to chat with every time I've met him

[JonRB]

D_Mike said:

It was great to watch the championship essentially decided by two cars nose to tail and racing for it.

Oh, I wouldn't say the championship is over yet - far from it. However Schumacher has undoubtedly been dealt a blow by the points gap increasing rather than decreasing.

[sstein]

Schumacher can win it if he wins every race left this season, and Massa gets 2nd in two of them. Here's hoping.

-

Stuart

[SamHH]

fidgits said:

At the end of the day, Schumacher could've passed Alonso on circuit had he been a good enough racer... he didnt, he deserved to lose the 2 championship points.

It simply looked to me like Alonso did a very good job of defending his position helped by the fact that he was much quicker through some vital fast corners. I've never even driven a car on a track so maybe I'm not best placed to know but unless you've driven an '06 spec' F1 car how can you be so sure?

[fidgits]

SamHH said:

fidgits said:

At the end of the day, Schumacher could've passed Alonso on circuit had he been a good enough racer... he didnt, he deserved to lose the 2 championship points.

It simply looked to me like Alonso did a very good job of defending his position helped by the fact that he was much quicker through some vital fast corners. I've never even driven a car on a track so maybe I'm not best placed to know but unless you've driven an '06 spec' F1 car how can you be so sure?

Ive driven on track, but no, not a F1 car (i think thats a rare priveldge) but i was simply comparing it to earlier in the race when similar performing cars were capable of overtaking.

and while im not taking anything away from Alonso's great defence - Michael should have been able to do better than one 'nearly' manovere IMO.

[JonRB]

fidgits said:

and while im not taking anything away from Alonso's great defence - Michael should have been able to do better than one 'nearly' manovere IMO.

I disagree. As either Brundle or Allen pointed out, Schumacher had a lot to lose if Alonso took him out and Alonso far less so, making a boot-on-the-other-foot 'racing incident' (sic) on the part of Alonso a very real possibility.

Schumacher would have been very aware of this and played it safe.

[rich 36]

hey

[fidgits]

JonRB said:

fidgits said:

and while im not taking anything away from Alonso's great defence - Michael should have been able to do better than one 'nearly' manovere IMO.

I disagree. As either Brundle or Allen pointed out, Schumacher had a lot to lose if Alonso took him out and Alonso far less so, making a boot-on-the-other-foot 'racing incident' (sic) on the part of Alonso a very real possibility.

Schumacher would have been very aware of this and played it safe.

each to their own...

As I said originally - to me it simply reinforced my belief that while Schumi might be one of the best 'drivers' today, I think he's lacking a 'racers' talent, winning through pit stop strategies combined with fast laps, NOT through being capable of passing people on track.

[JonRB]

fidgits said:

to me it simply reinforced my belief that while Schumi might be one of the best 'drivers' today, I think he's lacking a 'racers' talent, winning through pit stop strategies combined with fast laps, NOT through being capable of passing people on track.

Perhaps, but you could say the same thing abut Alain 'Le Professor' Prost though, and that doesn't necessarily detract from either man.

[Derek Smith]

JonRB said:

fidgits said:

and while im not taking anything away from Alonso's great defence - Michael should have been able to do better than one 'nearly' manovere IMO.

I disagree. As either Brundle or Allen pointed out, Schumacher had a lot to lose if Alonso took him out and Alonso far less so, making a boot-on-the-other-foot 'racing incident' (sic) on the part of Alonso a very real possibility.

Schumacher would have been very aware of this and played it safe.

Alonso was the one with points to lose. If there had been a colision between the two cars which eliminated both then Schuey would have been in a better position than he is at the moment.

I can't help but think we've seen the best of Schuey. He appears to have lost that edge. What made him different in the past was the fact that he was quite happy to take others out if they were in the way. Alonso's Renault would have had a few black marks across the body just three years ago. Now, though, he appears quite happy to come in behind his only rival for the Championship. That's a sea change in attitude.

[fidgits]

I personally feel the first 'attempt' followed by the gung-ho lunge on the last corner proves that he wasnt playing it safe, but rather lacked the skill to put together a series of corners to take most advantage over his Ferrari's edge and pass the Renault...

[BOFFIN]

did anyone else notice the different rear wheels on the ferrari's