Sauber-Ferrari and the Ferrari blocking orders at Jerez 1997

[deevlash]

I wonder if F1 needs a rule such as the one in football WRT to the "tapping up" of another clubs player without first contacting the players team?

[flemke]

Leithen said:

flemke said:

It was not illegal but, like much that Ferrari do, it was dubious and unseemly.

Dastardly foreigners, always been the baddies

Certain bad foreigners are bad not because they are foreign, but because they are bad.

[Leithen]

flemke said:

Certain bad foreigners are bad not because they are foreign, but because they are bad.

Never been members of the club though, have they? Not that the old man ever wanted to be. Perhaps with good reason.

The notion of good versus bad in F1 has always amused me.

[robbiemeister]

deevlash said:

I wonder if F1 needs a rule such as the one in football WRT to the "tapping up" of another clubs player without first contacting the players team?

I don't think that would go dowm to well with The Bolt. I think it's he that does most of the "tapping up".

[deevlash]

robbiemeister said:

deevlash said:

I wonder if F1 needs a rule such as the one in football WRT to the "tapping up" of another clubs player without first contacting the players team?

I don't think that would go dowm to well with The Bolt. I think it's he that does most of the "tapping up".

Pardon my ignorance but who is "The Bolt"?

[FourWheelDrift]

deevlash said:

robbiemeister said:

deevlash said:

I wonder if F1 needs a rule such as the one in football WRT to the "tapping up" of another clubs player without first contacting the players team?

I don't think that would go dowm to well with The Bolt. I think it's he that does most of the "tapping up".

Pardon my ignorance but who is "The Bolt"?

Bernie The Bolt. I'm too young to remember the phrase but it was on the Golden Shot with Bob Monkhouse as part of Sunday Night at the London Paladium during the 1890's.

[deevlash]

FourWheelDrift said:

deevlash said:

robbiemeister said:

deevlash said:

I wonder if F1 needs a rule such as the one in football WRT to the "tapping up" of another clubs player without first contacting the players team?

I don't think that would go dowm to well with The Bolt. I think it's he that does most of the "tapping up".

Pardon my ignorance but who is "The Bolt"?

Bernie The Bolt. I'm too young to remember the phrase but it was on the Golden Shot with Bob Monkhouse as part of Sunday Night at the London Paladium during the 1890's.

Ah makes more sense now, im far too young to remember that show!

[V8 Archie]

FourWheelDrift said:

Remember this was also the race when Coulthard clearly pulled over and let Hakkinen pass him to win his first ever grand prix.

What a heinous crime that was in a team sport. Punished in full by the FIA as I remember despite the fact that Ferrari were consistently doing the same thing all the time and have done ever since.

[FourWheelDrift]

Was it punished? I remember the Australian incident when Coulthard pulled over the let Hakkinen past that got a severe ticking off by the FIA.

[robbiemeister]

FourWheelDrift said:

deevlash said:

robbiemeister said:

deevlash said:

I wonder if F1 needs a rule such as the one in football WRT to the "tapping up" of another clubs player without first contacting the players team?

I don't think that would go dowm to well with The Bolt. I think it's he that does most of the "tapping up".

Pardon my ignorance but who is "The Bolt"?

Bernie The Bolt. I'm too young to remember the phrase but it was on the Golden Shot with Bob Monkhouse as part of Sunday Night at the London Paladium during the 1890's.

The nick name was given by the blokes at Brabham when BCE ran it. As FWD says it came from the show the Golden Shot, although I think it was a stand alone program on a Sunday afternoon.

www.ukgameshows.com/page/index.php/The_Golden_Shot

[AlexS]

FourWheelDrift said:

Was it punished? I remember the Australian incident when Coulthard pulled over the let Hakkinen past that got a severe ticking off by the FIA.

I don't think it was actually punished at the time, but the rules were changed afterwards to ban team orders.

[Mr_Thyroid]

[quote=Mr_Thyroid]That's was so blatant. But the collusion between Williams and McLaren was pretty blatant too, particularly when you see the transcript of Jock Clear saying 'we discussed this situation' to Jacques over the radio in the last couple of laps.quote]

I found the transcript, very interesting and more obvious than I remember.

Tale of the Tapes
Following are the relevant portions of transcripts
of tapes of radio transmissions from
the European Grand Prix at Jerez. These transcripts
were apparently released by Ferrari. No
McLaren transcripts have surfaced, presumably
because the team scrambles its transmissions,
as Penske has in CART.
The Williams Tape
The transcript begins just before the second
and final pit stop. The voices are those of
Jock Clear, race engineer for Villeneuve, and
Patrick Head. Villeneuve’s voice was obscured
by static, supposedly, though Clear could obviously
hear him well enough.
Clear to Villeneuve: Come on Jacques. Push
like a b#####d. Confirm. Box, box, box (Italian
for pit).
Pit crew to Villeneuve: Steady in the box,
Jacques. Brake. Neutral. Brake, brake. Go! Go!
Go! Go! Go!
Pit crew to Clear: Pit stop was sweet, Jock.
Villeneuve is rapidly catching Schumacher.
Clear to Villeneuve: Keep thinking, Jacques.
Keep thinking.
Villeneuve and Schumacher collide; voices rise
in pitch and intensity
Clear to Villeneuve: Keep the thing going, you
b#####d. (Pause; Clear determines that
Villeneuve is still running) You beauty....
Clear to pit crew: Get ready, boys. Get ready.
Get me some ****ing tires for Villeneuve.
Clear to Villeneuve: Michael is out. Michael is
out. How is your car, Jacques? How is your
car? How bad is it Jacques?
Villeneuve answers, but reply is unintelligible
Clear to Villeneuve: Keep going, Jacques. Keep
going. You’ve just got to finish in the points.
That’s all you’ve got to do. Think about what’s
going on in the car.
Clear to Villeneuve: Think about that puncture.
(Team mistakenly thinks Villeneuve has a
tire going down)
Pit crew to Clear: Villeneuve tires in place.
Confirm tires, Jock.
Clear to Villeneuve: Keep it going, Jacques.
We’ve a new set of tires. How is the car?
Villeneuve answers through static.
Clear to Villeneuve: Okay. Stay out. Stay out.
Irvine is too near to risk a stop. Ten seconds
(to) Coulthard and Hakkinen, P2 and 3. Gently
Jacques, gently.
(Pause) Plus nine to Coulthard. Villeneuve,
Coulthard, Hakkinen, Irvine P4, 13 seconds.
(Later) Jacques, if the car is okay, mid–25s will
be okay to stay ahead of Irvine. Good pace.
Good pace.
Clear to Villeneuve: Let (Nakano) past. Don’t
lose any pace to do it. Coulthard P2, five seconds.
Let the Prost pass on the straight,
Jacques. It’s Nakano, not Panis.
(Pause) Two McLarens, P2, P3. Very close together.
That lap, 25.2.
Patrick Head to Clear: To repeat, Jock, we are
more concerned with the championship than
the race position.
Clear to Villeneuve: Keep concentrating,
Jacques. Keep concentrating.
(Pause) Hakkinen up to position two. 26.5 seconds,
Villeneuve. Hakkinen quite quick and
very helpful.
(Later) Be aware that Hakkinen is now in position
two. He probably wants to win. Very helpful.
(Later) DC is controlling Irvine. Hakkinen immediately
behind you, Jacques. Immediately
behind you, Hakkinen.
(Later) Keep concentrating, Jacques. Hakkinen
is immediately behind. Last lap. Last lap.
(Sounding very nervous) Hakkinen has been
very helpful. Jacques, position two. Don’t let
me down, Jacques. We discussed this....
Villeneuve slows, moves over for Hakkinen.


The Ferrari transcript
This portion of the tape begins before the first
pit stop. The conversation is between Ross
Brawn, team technical director, and Michael
Schumacher.
Brawn: We have just heard Frentzen say that
he has problems with his rear tyres. He is dropping
back. Frentzen has problems with his rear
tires.
Schumacher: Okay.
Brawn: Michael, new or old tires? New or old?
Schumacher: There is no problem with tires.
Brawn: Instruction for cockpit fuel setting
Schumacher: Okay. The tire situation is clear
for you?
Brawn: Yes. Villeneuve is pushing, Michael.
Villeneuve’s pushing.
Schumacher: There’s going to be a car lapped
in about a couple of laps.
Brawn: Understood, Michael. Okay, Michael.
You need to keep me informed on the traffic
situation.
Schumacher: Yeah. It will take a little bit longer
than I thought.
Brawn: Okay, Michael. In this lap.
Schumacher: Okay.
Brawn: Brake, balance Michael. Coulthard’s
behind you. Watch it.
First pitstop
Schumacher (back on the track, behind
Frentzen, who has not stopped): I guess now
we have the theory where Frentzen is going to
block me.
Brawn: Okay, Michael. We will have to watch
it.
Schumacher: When do you think Frentzen and
Hakkinen are going into the pit?
Brawn: One of the McLarens is doing a stop
now. Coulthard in. Okay, Frentzen in. (Brawn
gives Schumacher another fuel adjustment to
make)
Schumacher: Okay, we have to be careful that
after the next pit stop I don’t fall behind
Frentzen.
Brawn: Yes, I’m watching it Michael. He is
stuck behind Hakkinen and Coulthard at the
moment.
Schumacher: There is going to be traffic in
two or three laps.
Brawn: Okay, understood, Michael. We have
got to build the gap on Frentzen a bit more.
Try to push hard in the next couple of laps and
I’ll see what I can do.
Schumacher: I am going to lap these guys.
Overtake.
Brawn: Michael, you have to push now to get
the gap on Frentzen. You have to push next
few laps. Okay. In this lap, Michael. Keep pushing.
In this lap.
Second pitstop takes place; Villeneuve begins to
reel Schumacher in
Brawn: Villeneuve behind you. Villeneuve’s
behind you Michael. Michael, Villeneuve is now
behind you. Can you go with (more powerful
fuel setting)?
Schumacher: Sorry, I can’t hear that. Repeat.
Brawn: Villeneuve is right behind. (Repeats fuel
setting)
Schumacher (urgent): What is the gap between
him and me? What is the gap between him
and me at the moment?
Brawn: About one second, Michael. He’s right
behind you. One second. He is on the same
strategy as you. Same strategy as you.
Collision occurs