Ferrari tell renault to play fair !
Discussion
Jean Todt has said a similar thing too.
Jean Todt hinted after the Chinese Grand Prix that Ferrari would be watching Renault closely to see what tactics the team employed in the battle for the World Championship. The unspoken implication was that Renault was somehow up to no good because Giancarlo Fisichella did not overtake Fernando Alonso immediately in China when Alonso was struggling with his tyres in the middle of the race.
Fernando Alonso responded to that by saying that he did could not imagine that Felipe Massa would drive past Michael Schumacher if situation was reversed and Ferrari had the same problem and one has to say that this is a very fair point given Ferrari's complete dedication to the cause of Schumacher for the last 10 years. Fisichella did exactly what one would expect in such circumstances. He could not afford to behind Alonso with Michael Schumacher behind the pair of them because Michael might be able to get ahead at the final pit stops. It made total sense for the team to think through the various scenarios and then allow Fisichella to push on and not try to defend Alonso by taking maximum points for Renault in the Constructors' Championship and taking away points from Schumacher in the Drivers' title. In this particular case Fisichella failed to achieve that as he made a mistake and let Schumacher through. However if he had won the race with Michael second, the World Championship contenders would have had the same points scores but Alonso would be ahead (because he has one more fifth place than Michael) but Renault would be five points clear in the Constructors' rather than just one.
However, with Todt's record of favouring Schumacher at the expense of his team mates, perhaps he is not the man best-suited to making public comments about what is sporting and what is not sporting. There are some in the F1 paddock who do not believe that Todt even understands the difference between sport and business. That may be harsh but it is a reality and thus to step into the limelight and give a sermon on the subject is asking to be pelted with abuse.
GP.com said:
Jean Todt hinted after the Chinese Grand Prix that Ferrari would be watching Renault closely to see what tactics the team employed in the battle for the World Championship. The unspoken implication was that Renault was somehow up to no good because Giancarlo Fisichella did not overtake Fernando Alonso immediately in China when Alonso was struggling with his tyres in the middle of the race.
Fernando Alonso responded to that by saying that he did could not imagine that Felipe Massa would drive past Michael Schumacher if situation was reversed and Ferrari had the same problem and one has to say that this is a very fair point given Ferrari's complete dedication to the cause of Schumacher for the last 10 years. Fisichella did exactly what one would expect in such circumstances. He could not afford to behind Alonso with Michael Schumacher behind the pair of them because Michael might be able to get ahead at the final pit stops. It made total sense for the team to think through the various scenarios and then allow Fisichella to push on and not try to defend Alonso by taking maximum points for Renault in the Constructors' Championship and taking away points from Schumacher in the Drivers' title. In this particular case Fisichella failed to achieve that as he made a mistake and let Schumacher through. However if he had won the race with Michael second, the World Championship contenders would have had the same points scores but Alonso would be ahead (because he has one more fifth place than Michael) but Renault would be five points clear in the Constructors' rather than just one.
However, with Todt's record of favouring Schumacher at the expense of his team mates, perhaps he is not the man best-suited to making public comments about what is sporting and what is not sporting. There are some in the F1 paddock who do not believe that Todt even understands the difference between sport and business. That may be harsh but it is a reality and thus to step into the limelight and give a sermon on the subject is asking to be pelted with abuse.
If you read the, rather less opinionated, Autosport article. Ross Brawn makes a fairly decent effort to explain the situation. His reading seems to be 'Direct instructions are not on. Weaving is not on. Fisichella and Massa both know the score and we all know that they will therefore be a pain in the arse to Michael and Fernando respectively, and hand their team mates as much as they can. What do you expect?' Oh and reading betwen the lines 'All our instructions are in code anyway so good luck with that.'
All good fuel to the 'Ferrari are the Devil Incarnate' whinge merchants though.
All good fuel to the 'Ferrari are the Devil Incarnate' whinge merchants though.
kevin ritson said:
Obviously the irony when Massa almost stood on the brakes to let Michael through was lost on Jean and Ross...
Ah, but that wasn't team orders!
The team wouldn't have instructed Massa to let Michael through, you know. Oh no.
Massa's agent, who by sheer coincidence happens to be Jean Todt's son, might have said, "It's simple, Flipper, old boy, if you don't let the Big Guy through at the first opportunity, you'll be out on your ass so quick it'll make your head spin!", but those wouldn't have been team orders, they would have been manager's orders.
Totally different!
at the end of the day - of course in these situations team orders are there - they are fighting for both the drivers and manufacturers titles... the second drivers NOT allowing the championship rival past is just stupid...
The big issue with team orders came a couple of years ago - when at the START of a season, Barechello was TOLD over the radio to pull over and let Shumi pass - even though he had a huge points lead at the time, and no championship contender.
The fact is, Massa let Shumi past today - and that was fair enough, and not at all surprising - why Ferrari are complaining? Who knows...
The big issue with team orders came a couple of years ago - when at the START of a season, Barechello was TOLD over the radio to pull over and let Shumi pass - even though he had a huge points lead at the time, and no championship contender.
The fact is, Massa let Shumi past today - and that was fair enough, and not at all surprising - why Ferrari are complaining? Who knows...
fidgits said:
at the end of the day - of course in these situations team orders are there - they are fighting for both the drivers and manufacturers titles... the second drivers NOT allowing the championship rival past is just stupid...
The big issue with team orders came a couple of years ago - when at the START of a season, Barechello was TOLD over the radio to pull over and let Shumi pass - even though he had a huge points lead at the time, and no championship contender.
The fact is, Massa let Shumi past today - and that was fair enough, and not at all surprising - why Ferrari are complaining? Who knows...
The big issue with team orders came a couple of years ago - when at the START of a season, Barechello was TOLD over the radio to pull over and let Shumi pass - even though he had a huge points lead at the time, and no championship contender.
The fact is, Massa let Shumi past today - and that was fair enough, and not at all surprising - why Ferrari are complaining? Who knows...
Totally agree
After Monza's antics, I'm surprised nothing came of the interesting qually session at Suzuka:
www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17605.html
www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17605.html
jacobyte said:
After Monza's antics, I'm surprised nothing came of the interesting qually session at Suzuka:
www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17605.html
www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17605.html
Ah, the FIA decided to change the rules after Monza, presumably so Ferrari could take advantage
why all the ferrari bashing? its a shame that in our society everybody hates on successfull teams and people alike. i understand those that favour other teams (indeed i am sure everyone has their own favs) but to constantly bitch about another team just because they will do anything to win is not cool, i love ferrari, the passion, the winning spirit, the ethos of it beingsomething to aspire to, but that doesnt mean i bitch about Maclaren or Ren or williams etc. just watch the sport and support your team...... long live the Scuderia!!
Jam Rock said:
why all the ferrari bashing? its a shame that in our society everybody hates on successfull teams and people alike. i understand those that favour other teams (indeed i am sure everyone has their own favs) but to constantly bitch about another team just because they will do anything to win is not cool, i love ferrari, the passion, the winning spirit, the ethos of it beingsomething to aspire to, but that doesnt mean i bitch about Maclaren or Ren or williams etc. just watch the sport and support your team...... long live the Scuderia!!
people dont like Ferrari because they dont play fair...
its as simple as that - they employ underhand tactics frequently just to win.
now yes, the brit mentality is to support the underdog - but we hate cheats, which is why there is so much ill feeling towards Ferrari.
Jam Rock said:
why all the ferrari bashing? its a shame that in our society everybody hates on successfull teams and people alike. i understand those that favour other teams (indeed i am sure everyone has their own favs) but to constantly bitch about another team just because they will do anything to win is not cool, i love ferrari, the passion, the winning spirit, the ethos of it beingsomething to aspire to, but that doesnt mean i bitch about Maclaren or Ren or williams etc. just watch the sport and support your team...... long live the Scuderia!!
The bias shown to Ferrari has jaded my opinion of them as a team. As an engineer I believe that they are the best team (and Schu is the best driver), based on merit alone. Every 50/50 decision whether it be technical or sporting seems to fall in Ferraris favour, which doesn't really do the sport any good.
i appreciate the replys fellas and understand the underdog thing, but the difference between a winner and a world champ is that they will do anything to win, winning is above all the most important thing, not the taking part or any of that crap we get fed as kids, thats the diff between shui/senna and all the rest. Mclaren have been just as dodgy as ferrari over the years but the f1 public dont bitch about them in the same way, in fact renault too with their dodgy traction control systems a few years ago when it was illegal to have such a system. i understand that it may sometimes look like ferrari get decisions in their favour but they are also often the ones who get screwed over and made an example off eg the shui incident at monaco, relegating him to the back of the bloody field!!
all in all its 6 of one half a dozen of another and over the course of a season, things work out pretty even... but people will always hate (and in my case love) ferrari. Above all one has to remember that without ferrari & (Maclaren and williams) F1 would prob not be where it is at today.
as i said earlier long live the scuderia
all in all its 6 of one half a dozen of another and over the course of a season, things work out pretty even... but people will always hate (and in my case love) ferrari. Above all one has to remember that without ferrari & (Maclaren and williams) F1 would prob not be where it is at today.
as i said earlier long live the scuderia
Edited by Jam Rock on Tuesday 10th October 16:53
Jam Rock said:
they are also often the ones who get screwed over and made an example off eg the shui incident at monaco, relegating him to the back of the bloody field!!
He parked it to block the track! I feel the penalty was entirely justified (and of the right severity)
I don't believe Ferrari have any more "win at all costs" mentality than any other time although I think they can push the boundaries more safely as the FIA will err on the side of supporting them. They have done pretty well out of the decisions of the organisers this year - Monaco was the only thing that has really gone against them (MS & FA equal penalties in qually in Hungary evened out nicely)
I think Schuey does have a greater win at all costs mentality than any other driver, which simultaneously highlights his drive & determination but is also his most disappointing trait.
egomeister said:
I think Schuey does have a greater win at all costs mentality than any other driver, which simultaneously highlights his drive & determination but is also his most disappointing trait.
I would have so much more respect for MS had he not flung Hill off the track or tried it with Villeneuve in years past!It was the Hill incident and the circumstances that surrounded it that put me off MS, no matter how brilliant some of his drives may have seemed or how well he managed to get a team to mould around him.
It will be very interesting to see if Kimi or Massa can can manage the same feat next year.
Edit to add - my opinion of f
Ferrari may need to be revised of course, now that they have allowed one of their engines to blow evening out the Monza failure for Alonso. Perhaps they are into sportsmanship after all. It's one event the MM can't revise with adjusted rules - or can he?
It will be very interesting to see if Kimi or Massa can can manage the same feat next year.
Edit to add - my opinion of f
Ferrari may need to be revised of course, now that they have allowed one of their engines to blow evening out the Monza failure for Alonso. Perhaps they are into sportsmanship after all. It's one event the MM can't revise with adjusted rules - or can he?
Edited by LongQ on Tuesday 10th October 20:51
Personally I've been sickened by the fawning over MS in the UK press that followed his comments after Suzuka.
First of all it's just an evening out of luck - one blow-up each. The fact that this one is in the penultimate doesn't make it any more lucky.
Secondly, I wait to see whether Massa tries to punt Alonso off the track. It would be more extreme that Ferrari's normal style, but we all know that Massa "knows what's best for the team". Watch this space...
First of all it's just an evening out of luck - one blow-up each. The fact that this one is in the penultimate doesn't make it any more lucky.
Secondly, I wait to see whether Massa tries to punt Alonso off the track. It would be more extreme that Ferrari's normal style, but we all know that Massa "knows what's best for the team". Watch this space...
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