Discussion
The problem is this....
Whilst Dunlop have the exclusive tyre deal they fit tyres that they have currently in their range. It isn't a deal where Dunlop said OK we will make a "Britcar" control tyre and in return for our investment we want an exclusive deal.
So everyone is stuck with whatever Dunlop currently make. What this means is that Dunlop only make a tyre suitable for endurance racing in a GT or LMP size - which is currently a rim size bigger than 18 inches.
The Dunlop tyres that are available for smaller rims are from their Saloon or Touring car range - and as those races are of a sprint format those tyres are not suitable for the purposes we put them to.
In the 24hr race the Civic was totally destroying the fronts in 80 mins, which made our fuel allowance irrelevant and to be honest I doubt very much that the car will be used in the 2007 24hrs.
Now if there was a cost saving, some prize money or bonus money perhaps that would make you see things differently but right now its a joke. Not only do we pay full price for the product, its not suitable for all and it stops you getting a tyre deal elsewhere - which if you were running at the front you could easily get which would make the cost of racing a lot less.
I'm sorry to say this but the current arrangement benefits only 2 people. Dunlop and whoever the brown envelope goes to.
Whilst Dunlop have the exclusive tyre deal they fit tyres that they have currently in their range. It isn't a deal where Dunlop said OK we will make a "Britcar" control tyre and in return for our investment we want an exclusive deal.
So everyone is stuck with whatever Dunlop currently make. What this means is that Dunlop only make a tyre suitable for endurance racing in a GT or LMP size - which is currently a rim size bigger than 18 inches.
The Dunlop tyres that are available for smaller rims are from their Saloon or Touring car range - and as those races are of a sprint format those tyres are not suitable for the purposes we put them to.
In the 24hr race the Civic was totally destroying the fronts in 80 mins, which made our fuel allowance irrelevant and to be honest I doubt very much that the car will be used in the 2007 24hrs.
Now if there was a cost saving, some prize money or bonus money perhaps that would make you see things differently but right now its a joke. Not only do we pay full price for the product, its not suitable for all and it stops you getting a tyre deal elsewhere - which if you were running at the front you could easily get which would make the cost of racing a lot less.
I'm sorry to say this but the current arrangement benefits only 2 people. Dunlop and whoever the brown envelope goes to.
we have the same problem in our series. The series is sponsored by dunlop, althought the details on that deal are unknown to the drivers!!
we also have a variety of cars, and some struggle to get a decent sized tyre. the tyre prices dont seem discounted.
and to make it worse another tyre maufacturer contacted me offering free tyres for next season
which of course I cant use how many times do you get offered sponsorship without even asking!!!!!
Looks like dunlop have a good marketing department..
we also have a variety of cars, and some struggle to get a decent sized tyre. the tyre prices dont seem discounted.
and to make it worse another tyre maufacturer contacted me offering free tyres for next season
which of course I cant use how many times do you get offered sponsorship without even asking!!!!! Looks like dunlop have a good marketing department..
Sorry mate the sums involved probably required a white envelope. My referral to brown envelopes makes the whole thing sound so vulgar.
Dude you know it, I know it and to be honest if EERC are not getting paid to give Dunlop the exclusive deal then the whole arrangement is even more stupid.
For my part I couldn't care less who is getting paid I just want a tyre that works because the current tyre is shit.
Dude you know it, I know it and to be honest if EERC are not getting paid to give Dunlop the exclusive deal then the whole arrangement is even more stupid.
For my part I couldn't care less who is getting paid I just want a tyre that works because the current tyre is shit.
not going to get into the politics of this but what I will say is this.
the tyre problem is one of a BIG mixed field.
it's great if you run a 911, every major tyre company makes tyres that work on a 911, yes, some are better than others, but all the makes work hard on these...
if you run an Elise for example, unless you can run the 16/17" rimms (NOT std to a Elise, but an Exige) then dunlops offering is not great, the front is off a radical and the rear some tin-top, suffice to say, they don't work well.
Avon have a good front tyre for the Elise, but the rear needs work....
simple facts are nobody makes a desent set for the car....
then we get to the ProSport, Dunlop make the 17" tyres for this, and they are OK, (that said, they have no changed in 10+ years). Avon only started on this car last year for Brit GT and whist they were making great progress, it was never finnished...
at the end of the day, unless the tyre makers are going to commit to put the work in for *every* car on the grid, then it's never going to be a great situation....
Persoanlly, I wish it was open, so each make to do it;s own thing with different cars....
the tyre problem is one of a BIG mixed field.
it's great if you run a 911, every major tyre company makes tyres that work on a 911, yes, some are better than others, but all the makes work hard on these...
if you run an Elise for example, unless you can run the 16/17" rimms (NOT std to a Elise, but an Exige) then dunlops offering is not great, the front is off a radical and the rear some tin-top, suffice to say, they don't work well.
Avon have a good front tyre for the Elise, but the rear needs work....
simple facts are nobody makes a desent set for the car....
then we get to the ProSport, Dunlop make the 17" tyres for this, and they are OK, (that said, they have no changed in 10+ years). Avon only started on this car last year for Brit GT and whist they were making great progress, it was never finnished...
at the end of the day, unless the tyre makers are going to commit to put the work in for *every* car on the grid, then it's never going to be a great situation....
Persoanlly, I wish it was open, so each make to do it;s own thing with different cars....
So an Endurance type tyre is available in an 18" but not 17", has anyone tetsed the 17" back to back with the 18", is actually any faster? I currently run 17's but have concerns that by doing so i'm disadvantaging myself, don't really care about the politics but it would be nice to see tyre costs come down, £200 + VAT / corner for 18's is a tad high for a sponsored series
Dude 17 v 18 in terms of outright speed then it depends what compound you use - obviously if you have the same compound and construction then they should be the same if the quality control is what it should be...ahem.
The point is you will not keep a 17 inch tyre alive for a full stint and you will be able to find a compound/construction that will last in 18 inch.
For the 24hrs if the tyre regulations stay the same then you can not afford to be on 17 inch - regardless how much 18's cost.
The point is you will not keep a 17 inch tyre alive for a full stint and you will be able to find a compound/construction that will last in 18 inch.
For the 24hrs if the tyre regulations stay the same then you can not afford to be on 17 inch - regardless how much 18's cost.
So, it seems no one on here is particularly happy about the single tyre format. Are we the majority or are we the "grumpy old men" of Britcar? Why dont we talk to James about opening up the supply agreement? I had a few "issues" with Dunlop last year and the relationship between Britcar and Dunlop was INCREDIBLY tight.
I think the Britcar tyre prices are about the standard going rate prices and as others have pointed out no one tyre manufacturer can supply competitive tyres to all people. There are simply too many combinations of sizes, compounds and constructions. (Don't believe all 911s are catered for either - I run the old trailing arm rear suspension and Dunlop could not get their heads around that!!).
However, the biggest point to me is that it stops us doing deals with other suppliers and thus costs us more money. As Phil said, what does Dunlop bring to the party for us, the competitors, and could there be a more fair and open tyre supply? I think I will ask James!!
Cheers,
Richard.
I think the Britcar tyre prices are about the standard going rate prices and as others have pointed out no one tyre manufacturer can supply competitive tyres to all people. There are simply too many combinations of sizes, compounds and constructions. (Don't believe all 911s are catered for either - I run the old trailing arm rear suspension and Dunlop could not get their heads around that!!).
However, the biggest point to me is that it stops us doing deals with other suppliers and thus costs us more money. As Phil said, what does Dunlop bring to the party for us, the competitors, and could there be a more fair and open tyre supply? I think I will ask James!!
Cheers,
Richard.
p490kvp said:
Tight wad!!!! Seriously though if you are going to do some proper testing use new tyres - you won't know what used ones have done and therefore will not know the starting point of their performance...
Just skint and only have used 17's now to compare with which would mean 2 new sets of tyres and huge expense just for 1 test day, especially if its raining, anyone have anything remotely decent that I could buy?
Calorus said:
Why not approach someone like Kumho or Hankook. I spoke to them at Autosport International, and both suggested that they were interested in raising their UK sporting crednentials. And the nature of the companies means they're more like to be more flexible and invest more heavily.
with all due...
unless they are going to commit LARGE summs of money to tyre development and testing, that's just pointless.
I would suggest that for evert type of car on the grid, it would take the best part of 3-4 months to develop a tyre to work with it....(and that assumes 100% commitment etc)
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff