So far only Albers slower than Button!!!
Discussion
Well kind of yeah, you do need to go on.
If Honda F1 didn't go testing then is that anyones fault but Honda F1's? If the 07 car wasn't built/designed in time then is that anyones fault but Honda F1's? However all that aside even if you take your numbers of 15 days testing are you saying that is the teams only data on the 2007 car?
Whichever way you cut this the buck stops with the senior people at Honda F1 and if with all the simulation data, wind tunnel data and days on track testing couldn't give them the heads up then it kind of tells it all.
I would have thought the main focus was winning races or scoring points, the needs of Augri F1 are secondary and again if that was a major factor you must question the people taking the decisions. Jenson Button could well be F1 champion material - but at this rate we will never know.
This surely surpasses Honda F1 previous genius i.e. not securing a car in their wind tunnel, such that it got blown back into the workings of the wind tunnel.
If Honda F1 didn't go testing then is that anyones fault but Honda F1's? If the 07 car wasn't built/designed in time then is that anyones fault but Honda F1's? However all that aside even if you take your numbers of 15 days testing are you saying that is the teams only data on the 2007 car?
Whichever way you cut this the buck stops with the senior people at Honda F1 and if with all the simulation data, wind tunnel data and days on track testing couldn't give them the heads up then it kind of tells it all.
I would have thought the main focus was winning races or scoring points, the needs of Augri F1 are secondary and again if that was a major factor you must question the people taking the decisions. Jenson Button could well be F1 champion material - but at this rate we will never know.
This surely surpasses Honda F1 previous genius i.e. not securing a car in their wind tunnel, such that it got blown back into the workings of the wind tunnel.
They launched the car at a similar time to others so it wasn't especially late, and Honda went to pretty much all the tests that were available, so no less than other teams. If they'd launched the car a week or two earlier they may have got another few days in but not a huge amount.
As to this hypothetical decision the team are supposed to have made to keep the new car or not, as I said in my last post, they no longer own that car! Im sure they realised the new car was slower than the old one, but they simply could not take the old car back no matter what you say. The bigwigs at Honda itself (not the race team) decided to create the Aguri team to keep Sato on the grid, and they obviously decided many months ago (ie mid last year) that Aguri would not develop their own car but would instead get last years works car for 2007. Aguri have sponsorship commitments to meet as well as contracts with Bernie (with huge penalties) to put two cars on the grid at every race, so there is absolutely no way with a couple of weeks to go that the Honda works team could simply say "we want our car back"
Im not disagreeing with you that it is a balls up and that someone may well get the highjump for it, but it categorically is not something the drivers are responsible for!
As to this hypothetical decision the team are supposed to have made to keep the new car or not, as I said in my last post, they no longer own that car! Im sure they realised the new car was slower than the old one, but they simply could not take the old car back no matter what you say. The bigwigs at Honda itself (not the race team) decided to create the Aguri team to keep Sato on the grid, and they obviously decided many months ago (ie mid last year) that Aguri would not develop their own car but would instead get last years works car for 2007. Aguri have sponsorship commitments to meet as well as contracts with Bernie (with huge penalties) to put two cars on the grid at every race, so there is absolutely no way with a couple of weeks to go that the Honda works team could simply say "we want our car back"
Im not disagreeing with you that it is a balls up and that someone may well get the highjump for it, but it categorically is not something the drivers are responsible for!
Edited by Locoblade on Sunday 18th March 17:50
Locoblade, you don't really believe that Super Aguri were in any way responsible for developing last year's RA106 to pass this year's crash test do you?....
They could easily have put two cars through the chassis tests, but why on earth would they even bother?...Last year's car only caught up with the rest at best in the second half of the season, a time when those teams not running near the top cease development of their cars. Thus there'd have been a massive reputational risk if they'd elected to stick with last year's car which after all only won one race in fortunate conditions.
IMHO Nick Fry is a lightweight and his head will roll - I wouldn't be surprised if Ross Brawn were bought into the team - maybe even this year if his creative juices are flowing....
They could easily have put two cars through the chassis tests, but why on earth would they even bother?...Last year's car only caught up with the rest at best in the second half of the season, a time when those teams not running near the top cease development of their cars. Thus there'd have been a massive reputational risk if they'd elected to stick with last year's car which after all only won one race in fortunate conditions.
IMHO Nick Fry is a lightweight and his head will roll - I wouldn't be surprised if Ross Brawn were bought into the team - maybe even this year if his creative juices are flowing....
rubystone said:
Locoblade, you don't really believe that Super Aguri were in any way responsible for developing last year's RA106 to pass this year's crash test do you?....
The works Honda F1 team at Brackley couldnt be seen to have had any input otherwise that would give shed loads of ammunition to Spyker / Williams in the customer car row, although obviously Honda R&D / money pays for it one way or another and Im sure they had some covert input into it somewhere.
What I am saying though is if Honda turned up with exactly the same chassis as Aguri, it would prove beyond doubt that one or both teams were contravening the Concorde Agreement, thats one big reason why they can't do it. Red Bull / STR have planned their chassis share from the off so have put 3rd party companies in place to own the IP rights of each chassis which is technically allowed, but Honda most probably haven't done this as they never intended to use the same chassis for themselves and Aguri.
I don't disagree about your other comments about the chassis though, by all means bring the old car if it was completely dominant as Ferrari have done in the past, but there's little point in sticking with the old car if its going to struggle to get into the points anyway, you might as well use the time to develop the new car.
As to Nick Fry, I don't think he cuts it as a team boss either and I wouldnt be upset if he was given the chop, but all my comments previously have been to counter 2priestsferrari's idea that the drivers are responsible for these kind of decisions.
Edited by Locoblade on Sunday 18th March 18:51
Locoblade said:
I don't disagree about your other comments about the chassis though, by all means bring the old car if it was completely dominant as Ferrari have done in the past, but there's little point in sticking with the old car if its going to struggle to get into the points anyway, you might as well use the time to develop the new car.
As to Nick Fry, I don't think he cuts it as a team boss either and I wouldnt be upset if he was given the chop, but all my comments previously have been to counter 2priestsferrari's idea that the drivers are responsible for these kind of decisions.
Edited by Locoblade on Sunday 18th March 18:04
Honda can't be seen to do a volce-face and they couldn't really back-to-back the 106 & 107 without people asking why....it's that good old Japanese tradition of honour.
...and it's laughable to suggest that any driver, even Schumacher, could influence the fundamental design of a car - because, it's the fundamentals of the Honda that are wrong - why else would it need flow conditioners the size of dustbin lids?
Seems now there is becoming a meeting of the minds....
Re: Button - I'll accept that the buck doesn't stop with him BUT given his position in the team he should (if he didn't already) have made it his business to play a health role in what the teams play was going to be. Because, I think it is generally accepted, they may as well not bothered going to Oz.
Given Buttons ambitions he should now be pushing for Fry to take a hike.
Re: Button - I'll accept that the buck doesn't stop with him BUT given his position in the team he should (if he didn't already) have made it his business to play a health role in what the teams play was going to be. Because, I think it is generally accepted, they may as well not bothered going to Oz.
Given Buttons ambitions he should now be pushing for Fry to take a hike.
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