Is this the end for Kimi?

[freedman]

stew-typeR said:

freedman said:

stew-typeR said:

Heebeegeetee said:

loneranger said:

Probably.
But the donkeys lost a lot of top people at the same time.
Then their wind tunnel self distructed.
Then one of their top technicians messed with the cars (allegedly).

If I could choose between Kimi/Massa and Alonso/Hamilton it would be the former every time. They are just so much faster.

Hmm. I thought Ferrari would lose people, when they saw what Kimi was like, and from what you say that is turning out to be right. If Kimi was good they'd stay.

If Kimi was good, he'd have a championship under his belt by now. He's absolutely no excuse for not having one. Two years at McLaren and now at Ferrari, yet each time he has reliability issues, and his car never seems quite the best. Yet the moment somebody else jumps into his vacant seat, wham, the car is contending for the championship.

Michael had success with Ferrari, FA had success at Renault, Lewis is having success at mcLaren, what the hell is Kimi doing?

so you have ignored the fact that the Mclaren wasn't really very reliable then. im sure MS could have brought the minardi home in 1st place every time also...

It was very reliable in 2005, and he still didnt win the championship,

er, no, 2005 is was very UN reliable. leading at hockenheim, dnf, just one example.

Do you think it possible to finish 2nd in the championship with 112 popints in a very unreliable car?

Of course it isnt

http://www.mapsofworld.com/thematic-maps/sports-ma...

[flemke]

loneranger said:

freedman said:

It was very reliable in 2005, and he still didnt win the championship,

Lets look at 2005.
The season finished with Alonso on 133 points, Kimi on 112 and Schumacher on 62.
Kimi won 7 races was 2nd 3 times and 3rd twice.
He had 5 poles and 10 fastest laps.
His non podium finishes were:
Melbourne 8th after starting from pit lane.
Malasia 9th after puncture.
San Marino Did Not Finish (DNF) driveshaft failiure.
European 11th tyre damage vibrations broke front suspension.
USA Did Not Start Michelin tyre problems.
Germany DNF engine failiure.

So it was down to luck over a season that he didn't win the championship.

You have omitted the times when his grid position was demoted by ten places because he lost an engine in practice. I can't remember exactly - didn't that happen three times?

[AKA8]

freedman, he mostly got on the podium or didn't finish at all. Add up the points tally from his results and you will see he barely finished any race lower than fifth place.

Alonso on the other hand scored in virtually every race. The renault was so consistent Alonson managed 15 points finishes to KR's 13. Quite often, as was the case with the European GP and Hockenhiem, this was when KR was leading Alonso.

[Heebeegeetee]

loneranger said:

San Marino Did Not Finish (DNF) driveshaft failiure.
European 11th tyre damage vibrations broke front suspension.

IIRC San Marino was where he was told to stay off the kerbs 'cos you can break a driveshaft. So he used the kerbs and broke a drive shaft.

The european was when he went off the track and flat spotted a tyre badly. He then still tried for a win but broke the car. Alonso had gone off the track at exactly the same place, but he dealt with the off in a completely different manner and didn't flat spot his tyre.

Kimi is fast, but imo he's just not smart enough to use that ability to any great ends.

[loneranger]

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=3979...

Practice 1: Kimi top as Ferrari dominates


Ferrari ace Kimi Raikkonen relieved some of the pressure on him to revive his form as he lead a dominant Ferrari 1-2 in the first free practice for the French Grand Prix.

Having arrived in France confident of improvements to the F2007 following a promising test at Silverstone, the Finn proved uncatchable at Magny-Cours on Friday morning despite the very best efforts of his team-mate Felipe Massa.

Lewis Hamilton's Magny-Cours weekend on the other hand got off to the worst possible start when the engine protection system on his McLaren-Mercedes switched itself off, stranding him out on the track on only his third lap.

It took the team more than half an hour to get the car back to the pits and the world championship leader back out on track.

Fernando Alonso was third fastest, but some 0.772s slower than Raikkonen's Ferrari.

[AKA8]

Loneranger, it seems you and I are the only ones who rate Kimi.

It's hardly that surprising that he has had a few issues this year. The guys who were in the same cars last year, or are brand new to the teams seem to be having a good run. It isn't too surprising to see Alonso and Kimi struggling is it?

I reckon those people who have written Kimi off will eat their words fairly soon. He is an unknown quanitity to an extent but his performance in 2005 shows his ambition.

[loneranger]

AKA8 said:

Loneranger, it seems you and I are the only ones who rate Kimi.

It's hardly that surprising that he has had a few issues this year. The guys who were in the same cars last year, or are brand new to the teams seem to be having a good run. It isn't too surprising to see Alonso and Kimi struggling is it?

I reckon those people who have written Kimi off will eat their words fairly soon. He is an unknown quanitity to an extent but his performance in 2005 shows his ambition.

Because this isn't a specialist F1 forum there are a lot of people on here who mouth off without having the faintest idea what they are talking about.

At least by informing people a little more they might end up getting a bit of education.

Kimi is the fastest driver currently in F1, that is plain to see. All you have to do is watch the cars. Nobody else keeps their car so close to neutral and thus nobody carries as much corner speed. His problem with Massa, as you say, is that Massa was well established within the team so had advantages with the overall package.

[rubystone]

loneranger said:

AKA8 said:

Loneranger, it seems you and I are the only ones who rate Kimi.

It's hardly that surprising that he has had a few issues this year. The guys who were in the same cars last year, or are brand new to the teams seem to be having a good run. It isn't too surprising to see Alonso and Kimi struggling is it?

I reckon those people who have written Kimi off will eat their words fairly soon. He is an unknown quanitity to an extent but his performance in 2005 shows his ambition.

Because this isn't a specialist F1 forum there are a lot of people on here who mouth off without having the faintest idea what they are talking about.

At least by informing people a little more they might end up getting a bit of education.

Kimi is the fastest driver currently in F1, that is plain to see. All you have to do is watch the cars. Nobody else keeps their car so close to neutral and thus nobody carries as much corner speed. His problem with Massa, as you say, is that Massa was well established within the team so had advantages with the overall package.

I haven't written off Kimi, nor do I disagree that he's the fastest driver out there...sometimes...like many people, I tipped him to win the drivers' championship this year and I still think that he can turn the corner.

Loneranger stirs it up here simply by the way that he states everything as black or white. This naturally puts people on the offensive, even those who don't have the "faintest idea what they are talking about"

One thing to remember, you have to finish to win - doesn't matter how many fastest laps you set...if you don't cross that line first, you haven't won....

[Calorus]

rubystone said:

I still think that he can turn the corner.

If he can't he going to have a very short Magny-Cours.

[Fidgits]

rubystone said:

Loneranger stirs it up here simply by the way that he states everything as black or white. This naturally puts people on the offensive, even those who don't have the "faintest idea what they are talking about"

That certainly could be part of it...

the whole, unwilling to accept his opinion is just that, an opinion, and one that others may not share certainly gets my back up...

we're all entitled to our own opinions, and part of the fun is discussing it (re button )

Edited by Fidgits on Friday 29th June 15:17

[FourWheelDrift]

loneranger said:

Kimi is the fastest driver currently in F1, that is plain to see. All you have to do is watch the cars. Nobody else keeps their car so close to neutral and thus nobody carries as much corner speed. His problem with Massa, as you say, is that Massa was well established within the team so had advantages with the overall package.

I haven't seen Kimi's name at the top of the apex speed charts the circuits are recording this year.

[TheOriginalGT40]

loneranger said:

AKA8 said:

Loneranger, it seems you and I are the only ones who rate Kimi.

It's hardly that surprising that he has had a few issues this year. The guys who were in the same cars last year, or are brand new to the teams seem to be having a good run. It isn't too surprising to see Alonso and Kimi struggling is it?

I reckon those people who have written Kimi off will eat their words fairly soon. He is an unknown quanitity to an extent but his performance in 2005 shows his ambition.

Because this isn't a specialist F1 forum there are a lot of people on here who mouth off without having the faintest idea what they are talking about.

At least by informing people a little more they might end up getting a bit of education.

Kimi is the fastest driver currently in F1, that is plain to see. All you have to do is watch the cars. Nobody else keeps their car so close to neutral and thus nobody carries as much corner speed. His problem with Massa, as you say, is that Massa was well established within the team so had advantages with the overall package.

If you are not prepared to have your comments questioned on here, by people who are just as knowledgeable (and sometimes more so) why do you even bother posting?

With regards to Kimi, I personally do not feel that he will ever win a world championship (but then you will not accept my opinion about that will you!!) simply because he is not a complete racing driver. Fine, he might throw the car around a track very fast, but that does not make a champion. Second place is the first loser - period.

Edited by TheOriginalGT40 on Friday 29th June 15:29

[Eifion]

Ignoring talent (what would I know), I'd be more than happy if I never saw KR race again, nothing scientific here, he's just such a miserable arrogant git (well a lot more so than the others).

At least Lewis Hamilton can help sell F1 to the greater public, he seems to be a really nice kid with heaps of talent (based not just on this season but his sensational GP2 season)-I also like Massa for similar reasons, compare his reaction to being black-flagged at Canada to KR's general air of gloom at being the highest paid F1 driver in one of the top teams, life must be really tough!

[loneranger]

Eifion said:

Ignoring talent (what would I know), I'd be more than happy if I never saw KR race again, nothing scientific here, he's just such a miserable arrogant git (well a lot more so than the others).

At least Lewis Hamilton can help sell F1 to the greater public, he seems to be a really nice kid with heaps of talent (based not just on this season but his sensational GP2 season)-I also like Massa for similar reasons, compare his reaction to being black-flagged at Canada to KR's general air of gloom at being the highest paid F1 driver in one of the top teams, life must be really tough!

You are right. Formula 1 drivers should be selected for their personality.
Miss Congeniality for Ferrari next season!!!!

[SuperKartRacer]

Kimi will win this weekend

[AKA8]

Eifion said:

Ignoring talent (what would I know), I'd be more than happy if I never saw KR race again, nothing scientific here, he's just such a miserable arrogant git (well a lot more so than the others).

At least Lewis Hamilton can help sell F1 to the greater public, he seems to be a really nice kid with heaps of talent (based not just on this season but his sensational GP2 season)-I also like Massa for similar reasons, compare his reaction to being black-flagged at Canada to KR's general air of gloom at being the highest paid F1 driver in one of the top teams, life must be really tough!

I'm not sure that you can really judge someone like that. Forgive the generalisation, but the Finnish are not the loudest or most extrovert bunch. Are you all smiles and joy on the way to and from work??? I imagine that KR just sees it as a job and tries to get on with it, without any consideration for PR. If you watch any of his antics on youtube, he seems to know how to enjoy himself!

[loneranger]

TheOriginalGT40 said:

With regards to Kimi, I personally do not feel that he will ever win a world championship (but then you will not accept my opinion about that will you!!) simply because he is not a complete racing driver. Fine, he might throw the car around a track very fast, but that does not make a champion. Second place is the first loser - period.

Kimi certainly is not as polished as MS was.
He is a racer and has proved it a few times, though I feel that there are several better racers currently in F1.
He makes mistakes. Usually when there is nothing special happening and he gets bored. Remember that this is a guy who can sleep anywhere, anytime. Often just before getting on the grid for a GP.
People say he wrecks cars but his team mates had a similar number of DNFs in the same car, so I think that this is unfair.
He certainly doesn't throw the car around. Mansell did that!! Kimi is far more polished.

As to whether he can be champion. Well he nearly was twice. In the right car he very obviously could be. The car is more important than the driver.

btw You keep saying that F1 should go back to stickshift/foot clutch. You don't understand the main reason for computerised paddle changes. It is to save engines. In the days of stickshift engine failiures were far more common because of over revving on downchanges. A computerised gearbox prevents this. So now we have less engine failiures.

[loneranger]

FourWheelDrift said:

I haven't seen Kimi's name at the top of the apex speed charts the circuits are recording this year.

Which means precisely zero.

A corner is not sitting there in splendid isolation. It is at the end of one straight and the beginning of another. So drivers corner in a way that allows them to get the power down earlier to make the whole ensuing straight faster. Kimi is neutral through the bends with all four tyres loaded, if he chooses to sacrifice apex speed in order to get power down sooner then that is up to him.

More significant is that Kimi has 21 fastest race laps in his career. More than any one else currently in F1. For comparison Alonso has just 10. Fisichella has 2 in a far longer career and Hamilton has just one, a lower success percentage than Kimi despite Lewis having the fastest car on the track for most races this season.

[freedman]

loneranger said:

FourWheelDrift said:

I haven't seen Kimi's name at the top of the apex speed charts the circuits are recording this year.

Which means precisely zero.

A corner is not sitting there in splendid isolation. It is at the end of one straight and the beginning of another. So drivers corner in a way that allows them to get the power down earlier to make the whole ensuing straight faster. Kimi is neutral through the bends with all four tyres loaded, if he chooses to sacrifice apex speed in order to get power down sooner then that is up to him.

More significant is that Kimi has 21 fastest race laps in his career. More than any one else currently in F1. For comparison Alonso has just 10. Fisichella has 2 in a far longer career and Hamilton has just one, a lower success percentage than Kimi despite Lewis having the fastest car on the track for most races this season.

Fastest race lap = 0 points

They mean nothing at all, if they carried points Schumacher or Senna would be atop the list, the fact that they are not is proof enough.

[mchammer89]

freedman said:

loneranger said:

FourWheelDrift said:

I haven't seen Kimi's name at the top of the apex speed charts the circuits are recording this year.

Which means precisely zero.

A corner is not sitting there in splendid isolation. It is at the end of one straight and the beginning of another. So drivers corner in a way that allows them to get the power down earlier to make the whole ensuing straight faster. Kimi is neutral through the bends with all four tyres loaded, if he chooses to sacrifice apex speed in order to get power down sooner then that is up to him.

More significant is that Kimi has 21 fastest race laps in his career. More than any one else currently in F1. For comparison Alonso has just 10. Fisichella has 2 in a far longer career and Hamilton has just one, a lower success percentage than Kimi despite Lewis having the fastest car on the track for most races this season.

Fastest race lap = 0 points

They mean nothing at all, if they carried points Schumacher or Senna would be atop the list, the fact that they are not is proof enough.

The point he is making is that he is the fastest driver, why are you bringing up championship points? In my opinion (the ratio of) fastest laps are the best way to determine fastest driver which loneranger has done and I think he's proved his point.