Marketing UK Motorsport - Help required
Discussion
The comparison with football is interesting and valid, although it's worth remembering that footie* - or so I'm told by those who have spectated for many years - is no longer within the budget of the 'working man'.
That said, motor racing venues have generally higher spectator capacities than football grounds and should be able to generate a decent chunk of revenue, without vastly inflating prices.
I agree, that good race information - positions and lap times etc. - is vital, particularly in longer races, to maintain spectator interest.
*Edited to say, the bigger names in football at least.
>> Edited by digga on Friday 30th May 12:08
That said, motor racing venues have generally higher spectator capacities than football grounds and should be able to generate a decent chunk of revenue, without vastly inflating prices.
I agree, that good race information - positions and lap times etc. - is vital, particularly in longer races, to maintain spectator interest.
*Edited to say, the bigger names in football at least.
>> Edited by digga on Friday 30th May 12:08
True but motor racing has always been expensive by comparison. In the old-days of watching a game getting drenched on the terraces eating boiled rat-burgers it used to cost, say $5/- (25p to those under the age of 40) to watch a Div 1 game in London, at the same time it was around $30/- (or more) to get into Brands. The balance has now swung the other way, with prices of say £17.50 - £25.00 to watch a Premier game whilst Silverstone was only £10.00 on Sunday, which incidentally I thought was pretty cheap. The point is that in order to modernise, football had to move on from its war-time image of blokes dressed in macs and trilbies clocking off at mid-day on a Saturday morning to go straight to the "match". It marketed itself as (some would say dubious) family entertainment and certainly from the perspective of a spectator modernised itself beyond recognition. By comparison many race tracks still seem to be little more than converted WWII bomber sites still with rusty Nissen huts for bogs! My approach would be to leave the racing pretty much as is but enhance the spectator "experience" by improvement and innovation. Rich...
digga said: The comparison with football is interesting and valid, although it's worth remembering that footie* - or so I'm told by those who have spectated for many years - is no longer within the budget of the 'working man'.
Motorsport may have been expensive by comparison in the past, but to attract a wider audience it's got to be a competitively priced day out, within the grasp of the average worker and family.
To try and raise revenue by jacking up ticket prices would IMHO be very risky - there's little to suggest that, other than F1, ticket prices could be priced similarly to big league football clubs.
So that brings us back to increasing the number of spectators....
To try and raise revenue by jacking up ticket prices would IMHO be very risky - there's little to suggest that, other than F1, ticket prices could be priced similarly to big league football clubs.
So that brings us back to increasing the number of spectators....
i dont want loud tannoys, i think the public would benefit from lots of them. like silverstone fm on gp weekend, it really helps knowing whats happening at the other side of the circuit, the race becomes and event rather than 20 cars coming past every two minutes. and if its something awful like the constant drone of the new mini cooper challenge then i say turn the tannoy up. they sounded more like a hairdryer than a racing car! take silverstone, if you are in the pits grandstand once they pass copse you cant see them till woodcote, great..... 
i think anyone trying to market british motorsport (as well as deserving a medal and our supprt) should start at the bottom, market the grass roots stuff like clubbie meetings and build an interest from there. people will always watch btcc and f3/gt and these championships can generate their audience quite easily. I dont think the fia gt regs need changing, after three hours the top three cars are almost always on the same lap!. the only problem is the number of cars redundant from series with nowhere to race.
the comments about ensuring people visit the paddock was excellent, that sort of thing really could see people getting more out of an event. perhaps free entry to the paddock would help, i know most circuits charge but stick an extra pound on the entry fee and let them in the paddock free, you are recovering some of the loss and the general punter wont notice the difference to his wallet. plus he thinks hes getting something for nothing.
as for the people that leave prior to the international supersports, well they just dont know good motor racing when they are offered it, i'd rather watch 8 litre Can-Am style cars than F3 any day.
always use to happen after the gp, people go home not realising that the next race was normally always full lotus 11s, maserati birdcages et al!.....
i think anyone trying to market british motorsport (as well as deserving a medal and our supprt) should start at the bottom, market the grass roots stuff like clubbie meetings and build an interest from there. people will always watch btcc and f3/gt and these championships can generate their audience quite easily. I dont think the fia gt regs need changing, after three hours the top three cars are almost always on the same lap!. the only problem is the number of cars redundant from series with nowhere to race.
the comments about ensuring people visit the paddock was excellent, that sort of thing really could see people getting more out of an event. perhaps free entry to the paddock would help, i know most circuits charge but stick an extra pound on the entry fee and let them in the paddock free, you are recovering some of the loss and the general punter wont notice the difference to his wallet. plus he thinks hes getting something for nothing.
as for the people that leave prior to the international supersports, well they just dont know good motor racing when they are offered it, i'd rather watch 8 litre Can-Am style cars than F3 any day.
always use to happen after the gp, people go home not realising that the next race was normally always full lotus 11s, maserati birdcages et al!.....
There should be loads of them all over the place - why the hell have they removed the only one?Agreed, you can criticise NASCAR for catering for the lowest common denominator, but it does get afew fundamental things right - like the big, totem pole thingy that displays the race positions.
Small, relatively simple touches like this would help make the sport more accessable, and might help prevent a lot of earache for those of us whose better halves currently find club racing less than interesting.
Small, relatively simple touches like this would help make the sport more accessable, and might help prevent a lot of earache for those of us whose better halves currently find club racing less than interesting.
hence the need for big screens.
pablo said:...take Silverstone, if you are in the pits grandstand once they pass copse you cant see them till woodcote, great.....
But in fact just the opposite is true, Sunday Silverstone was nearly empty. Rich...
...people will always watch BTCC and f3/gt and these championships can generate their audience quite easily.
It only seems to affect certain circuits though. Donington for the first round of the GT's was packed, and clubbie meetings at Oulton Park draw pretty big crowds to be honest. I'm going tommorrow to them AMOC meeting, and it will be pretty busy. None of the meetings are marketed at all. It just seems to draw a good crowd of 'regulars' who attend a lot of meetings there, which is great. Thats why I can't understand Octagon wanting to sell it. Its probably their most profitable circuit, Grand Prix excepted at Silverstone
One point - I don't believe the MSA are directly responsible for fiascos like the Focus Challenge. IIRC, the MSA cannot withhold a series licence provided it meets certain criteria. Responsibility lies with the organising club.
Spectator Information: I agree with the comments. It needs to be improved. totems, screens (well used at Goodwood), tannoy, FM transmitter. Heck, even publishing the timekeeper sheets out in spectator areas would be a start.
Paddock: I thought it was free! Obviously I go to low class events. It should be free, it should be easy access, and it should be inviting. Everyone needs to do their bit:
- Better organising, to place similar cars together
- Better display (again, Goodwood Paddock)
- I bore anyone who gets within 10' of my brother's car with it's specification and history. Do you? Do you put a little board on the car with driver and car notes? Do you have a briefing sheet for the commentators? Does your series organiser assist you in this?
Marketing Events Locally: Recently on a visit to Cadwell, we were in a dodgy pub. The locals saw the bags and started chatting. They had no idea there was a race on. If I'd had spare tickets, I'h have geven them. Not only would someone have seen some interesting racing, these are the people who complain about noise and traffic. If they saw what it was all about, they might be a bit more supportive.
Spectator Information: I agree with the comments. It needs to be improved. totems, screens (well used at Goodwood), tannoy, FM transmitter. Heck, even publishing the timekeeper sheets out in spectator areas would be a start.
Paddock: I thought it was free! Obviously I go to low class events. It should be free, it should be easy access, and it should be inviting. Everyone needs to do their bit:
- Better organising, to place similar cars together
- Better display (again, Goodwood Paddock)
- I bore anyone who gets within 10' of my brother's car with it's specification and history. Do you? Do you put a little board on the car with driver and car notes? Do you have a briefing sheet for the commentators? Does your series organiser assist you in this?
Marketing Events Locally: Recently on a visit to Cadwell, we were in a dodgy pub. The locals saw the bags and started chatting. They had no idea there was a race on. If I'd had spare tickets, I'h have geven them. Not only would someone have seen some interesting racing, these are the people who complain about noise and traffic. If they saw what it was all about, they might be a bit more supportive.
Snetterton on Saturday. Glorious weather, varied and resonably full grids - super fast TVRs, kart like Global Lights, MGs, FFs, etc.. Only 5 races but each was jolly good fun.
I'm kidding you not if I were to say there were probably no more than 10 (TEN!!) members of the paying public present.
If you discount me and the other chap who had the Octagon season ticket, that equates to £80 taken on the gate.
How many blokes/kids were being dragged round Castle Mall in Norwich, shopping with their better halves/parents?
How many of them would rather have been at Snetterton?
How many of them knew what was going on?
.....and you begin to see my point!
I'm kidding you not if I were to say there were probably no more than 10 (TEN!!) members of the paying public present.
If you discount me and the other chap who had the Octagon season ticket, that equates to £80 taken on the gate.
How many blokes/kids were being dragged round Castle Mall in Norwich, shopping with their better halves/parents?
How many of them would rather have been at Snetterton?
How many of them knew what was going on?
.....and you begin to see my point!
Oulton Park on Saturday, again glorious sunny weather. Was the Aston Martin Owners Club meeting, 7 races. Big crowd, at a guess I'd say at least 1500 people, which is good for a little club level meeting that isn't advertised. But as I said before, Oulton has a huge crowd of regulars who turn up for pretty much every meeting.
I don't have much in the way of answers...but in my opinion there are some really big problems in UK motorsport that will not be easily fixed with a chunk of marketing money.
Each group of people's interest are at the moment in opposition to the others; circuit owners want more revenue to compete with the revenue that track days bring in, competitors want low entry fees, organising clubs want to make some profit, marshals want better facilities and the MSA take a cut of all of it etc. etc.
There also seem to be people who don't want other series to be successful because it reflects on their own - it sounds like a conspiracy theory but unfortunately it appears to be true.
There is bog all money in UK motorsport - Octagon weren't just unlucky (or incompetent) to rack up £47million in losses last year (pls correct me if the figure is wrong ;-))
The guy it is probably worth talking to is Kevin Best who used to deal with the marketing for Powertour, he gave a really good presentation in the early days of Powertour and they had done a lot of market research into what motorsport was competing against eg shopping, football, changing working culture and the like. I can't remember the name of Kevin's firm though, but someone else may.
Sorry for the lenght of this....
Each group of people's interest are at the moment in opposition to the others; circuit owners want more revenue to compete with the revenue that track days bring in, competitors want low entry fees, organising clubs want to make some profit, marshals want better facilities and the MSA take a cut of all of it etc. etc.
There also seem to be people who don't want other series to be successful because it reflects on their own - it sounds like a conspiracy theory but unfortunately it appears to be true.
There is bog all money in UK motorsport - Octagon weren't just unlucky (or incompetent) to rack up £47million in losses last year (pls correct me if the figure is wrong ;-))
The guy it is probably worth talking to is Kevin Best who used to deal with the marketing for Powertour, he gave a really good presentation in the early days of Powertour and they had done a lot of market research into what motorsport was competing against eg shopping, football, changing working culture and the like. I can't remember the name of Kevin's firm though, but someone else may.
Sorry for the lenght of this....
PS - Steviebee, we see your point, it's not us you need to convince, it's those that matter up above. Why don't they promote race meetings? Who knows, it doesn't make any sense to me but they don't!
PPS - your web site is interesting but it all takes wayyy too long to load! I have an ISDN line and an interest in this field and my attention span timed out!!!
PPS - your web site is interesting but it all takes wayyy too long to load! I have an ISDN line and an interest in this field and my attention span timed out!!!
Piglet said: PS - Steviebee, we see your point, it's not us you need to convince, it's those that matter up above. Why don't they promote race meetings? Who knows, it doesn't make any sense to me but they don't!
PPS - your web site is interesting but it all takes wayyy too long to load! I have an ISDN line and an interest in this field and my attention span timed out!!!
Thanks for your input Piglet! (How's Pooh doing by the way??)
I take your point regarding the issue of throwing "marketing money" at the problem. Money alone will solve very little. Many of the tactical elements we are developing will actually cost no more than what is currently being spent (in some cases, less!) but the way in which the elements are delivered will be much better. With regards to our website, we are aware of the problem - it's just that we have about 8 clients paying us money to do their sites so fixing ours must wait...which given what we are trying to here, is ironic I know!!!
To everyone else that's contributed, I thank you! Please do keep your comments coming. I''m meeting with a fellow PH'er whose been working on something similar, in a few weeks. As soon as we have some meat on the bone, we'll post something for your views.
Piglet said: PS - Steviebee, we see your point, it's not us you need to convince, it's those that matter up above. Why don't they promote race meetings? Who knows, it doesn't make any sense to me but they don't!
PPS - your web site is interesting but it all takes wayyy too long to load! I have an ISDN line and an interest in this field and my attention span timed out!!!
Thanks for your input Piglet! (How's Pooh doing by the way??)
I take your point regarding the issue of throwing "marketing money" at the problem. Money alone will solve very little. Many of the tactical elements we are developing will actually cost no more than what is currently being spent (in some cases, less!) but the way in which the elements are delivered will be much better. With regards to our website, we are aware of the problem - it's just that we have about 8 clients paying us money to do their sites so fixing ours must wait...which given what we are trying to here, is ironic I know!!!
To everyone else that's contributed, I thank you! Please do keep your comments coming. I''m meeting with a fellow PH'er whose been working on something similar, in a few weeks. As soon as we have some meat on the bone, we'll post something for your views.
Piglet,
You say it's not us that need convincing, but how many of us regularly attend race meetings? I know I only attend as spannerman for my brother (that said I live in London, and the nearest circuit is 90 minutes away even on clear roads). Let's say we had a Pistonheads car park and beer tent at Cadwell this weekend. I suspect we would have a pretty decent turnout from the Lincolnshire crowd...
[files idea to present to Ted later!]
I agree that throwing money at the problem is not the right way, but a range of small, cheap initiatives will do wonders. With four key areas standing out:
- Away from the track, to draw people in,
- At the track, to improve the day
- Competitors & Spectators
there's a heck of a lot of little things that can be done to make life better. Events like the ASCAR day with the boy band are useful, but not sustainable week-in, week-out.
You are also correct about there being too many interested parties: circuit owners, organising clubs, MSA (though I suspect it's more an issue of inertia than malevolence or indifference to others' wishes). Which does raise one dumb question: Where does the main money come from. My understanding is that it's from:
MSA: Licence Fees; Club affiliation fees
Organising Clubs (BARC, BRSCC, etc.): Entry fees; membership fees.
Circuit Owners: Track Hire Fees; plus all spectators?
Can someone confirm this, or add to it?
You say it's not us that need convincing, but how many of us regularly attend race meetings? I know I only attend as spannerman for my brother (that said I live in London, and the nearest circuit is 90 minutes away even on clear roads). Let's say we had a Pistonheads car park and beer tent at Cadwell this weekend. I suspect we would have a pretty decent turnout from the Lincolnshire crowd...
[files idea to present to Ted later!]
I agree that throwing money at the problem is not the right way, but a range of small, cheap initiatives will do wonders. With four key areas standing out:
- Away from the track, to draw people in,
- At the track, to improve the day
- Competitors & Spectators
there's a heck of a lot of little things that can be done to make life better. Events like the ASCAR day with the boy band are useful, but not sustainable week-in, week-out.
You are also correct about there being too many interested parties: circuit owners, organising clubs, MSA (though I suspect it's more an issue of inertia than malevolence or indifference to others' wishes). Which does raise one dumb question: Where does the main money come from. My understanding is that it's from:
MSA: Licence Fees; Club affiliation fees
Organising Clubs (BARC, BRSCC, etc.): Entry fees; membership fees.
Circuit Owners: Track Hire Fees; plus all spectators?
Can someone confirm this, or add to it?
HiRich
What I mean is that those of us who are involved in motorsport in the UK (I'm a marshal - one of the strange group who give up lots of their time for free!!), don't understand why those above don't market the sport.
The circuit owners get the gate money - so why aren't they advertising the race meetings to get more punters through the gate? - It beats me.
Those who run championships need competitors, competitors need sponsorship, the higher the profile of the championship the more attractive it will be to a sponsor - so why don't they promote them? (see the theme here?
The areas that you name that would help to attract punters are obvious (I'm not being offensive here!), the circuit owners and the organsing clubs know that these things would make a difference so why don't they do it?
Rockingham are an exception to this, they are doing quite a lot to try to improve things, but if the stories are to be believed they are still not making money so perhaps that's the reason why the other circuit owners don't do it.
I think your summary of the money situation is fairly accurate, what you then need to add in is the costs of running a race meeting, medics, rescue units, timekeepers, fees to the MSA etc. as a bare minimum. It all adds up and I do genuinely believe that there is very little money to be made from running race meetings.
Partially the problem may be explained by the way the finances get split, any promotion done on behalf of a championship may act to increase the gate takings, but the circuit get this money and not the championship or the organising club, so why would anyone want to pay for advertising that benefits someone else?
As I said before, I don't have any answers, just lots of questions, I'd like to see a really good wide ranging study done on the industry as a whole to get a clear picture of why things happen as they do and to understand how the figures work. However, I can't see that happening in the near future, there are too many groups involved and too little clear leadership.
>> Edited by Piglet on Thursday 5th June 19:10
What I mean is that those of us who are involved in motorsport in the UK (I'm a marshal - one of the strange group who give up lots of their time for free!!), don't understand why those above don't market the sport.
The circuit owners get the gate money - so why aren't they advertising the race meetings to get more punters through the gate? - It beats me.
Those who run championships need competitors, competitors need sponsorship, the higher the profile of the championship the more attractive it will be to a sponsor - so why don't they promote them? (see the theme here?
The areas that you name that would help to attract punters are obvious (I'm not being offensive here!), the circuit owners and the organsing clubs know that these things would make a difference so why don't they do it?
Rockingham are an exception to this, they are doing quite a lot to try to improve things, but if the stories are to be believed they are still not making money so perhaps that's the reason why the other circuit owners don't do it.
I think your summary of the money situation is fairly accurate, what you then need to add in is the costs of running a race meeting, medics, rescue units, timekeepers, fees to the MSA etc. as a bare minimum. It all adds up and I do genuinely believe that there is very little money to be made from running race meetings.
Partially the problem may be explained by the way the finances get split, any promotion done on behalf of a championship may act to increase the gate takings, but the circuit get this money and not the championship or the organising club, so why would anyone want to pay for advertising that benefits someone else?
As I said before, I don't have any answers, just lots of questions, I'd like to see a really good wide ranging study done on the industry as a whole to get a clear picture of why things happen as they do and to understand how the figures work. However, I can't see that happening in the near future, there are too many groups involved and too little clear leadership.
>> Edited by Piglet on Thursday 5th June 19:10
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff