Can someone please explain the Hungary GP to me
Discussion
Having the recording of the full race fail, I was left with the 'highlights show' last night... which, erm, was confusing.
I kinda got the thing that Alonso stayed (or was held) in the pit box in Qually so Hamilton couldnt get pole - so was demoted 5 places, which gave Hamilton pole.
There was mention of 'problems', so what happened to cause a problem.
There was also mention that Mclaren wouldnt score manufacturer points - is this because of that, or the Ferrari thing?
I kinda got the thing that Alonso stayed (or was held) in the pit box in Qually so Hamilton couldnt get pole - so was demoted 5 places, which gave Hamilton pole.
There was mention of 'problems', so what happened to cause a problem.
There was also mention that Mclaren wouldnt score manufacturer points - is this because of that, or the Ferrari thing?
Mclaren lost the constructors points because of the pit lane fiasco in quali. They have the option to appeal, think Ron said he may not bother.
The 'problems' were that in the final quali session Hamilton exited the pit lane first with Alonso directly behind and Raikonnen behind him. Mclaren wanted Hamilton to let Alonso by straight away so Alonso could get a clear lap (something to do with differing fuel loads/strategy). Hamilton decided at the last minute he did not want to do this as letting Alonso by would inevitably let Raikonnen by too. Alonso then got his own back when they both stopped for tyres prior to a final hot lap.
(Think thats right!)
The 'problems' were that in the final quali session Hamilton exited the pit lane first with Alonso directly behind and Raikonnen behind him. Mclaren wanted Hamilton to let Alonso by straight away so Alonso could get a clear lap (something to do with differing fuel loads/strategy). Hamilton decided at the last minute he did not want to do this as letting Alonso by would inevitably let Raikonnen by too. Alonso then got his own back when they both stopped for tyres prior to a final hot lap.
(Think thats right!)
Edited by Baldylocks on Monday 6th August 12:49
Fidgits said:
why did mclaren have constructor points for that? since they effectively shot themselves in the foot anyway?
Have to ask the FIA on that one mate. Does'nt make much sense to me. It did'nt effect another team at all.Only possible reason I can think of is that the FIA deamed that Mclaren had changed the course of quali and hence the race by holding up one of their drivers; i.e. team orders.
What I want to know is how much control Ron had over the pit stop business or was it Alonso in control
Exactly what McLaren said... it's a team issue so let the team sort it!
Plenty of people on here really villifying Alonso. Some of em them being racist about it too. Seems like Lewis brought it upon himself. I was never a real fan of Alonso (respect for 2 titles tho!) and i can't bring myself to cheer for Lewis either. There just something aint right about that boy!
Nothing to do with him being black, the colour of people's skin or their nationality dont matter, tho I do frequently make jokes about the French, go on tell me they dont deserve it
Plenty of people on here really villifying Alonso. Some of em them being racist about it too. Seems like Lewis brought it upon himself. I was never a real fan of Alonso (respect for 2 titles tho!) and i can't bring myself to cheer for Lewis either. There just something aint right about that boy!
Nothing to do with him being black, the colour of people's skin or their nationality dont matter, tho I do frequently make jokes about the French, go on tell me they dont deserve it
What hasnt been mentioned here is that during that last pitstop in quali 3, Mclaren held Alonso for 20s to give him a clear run. If Alonso had left the pit box at the end of this 20s (when the lollipop was raised), there wouldnt have been an issue as Hamilton (who was queueing behind Alonso) would have had enough time to pit, change tyres and get round the lap before the end of the session. As it was though, Alonso spent another 10 seconds sitting in the box "clarifying whether he had the right tyres on or not", and it was this additional 10s delay that caused Hamilton to miss his last quali run.
I can fully understand the penalty to Alonso because apart from anything else, as he too was cutting it quite fine what the hell is the point of querying if the team have fitted the right tyres or not because they wouldnt have had time to get others out of the blankets and change them again anyway! Poor excuse IMHO.
Completely bemused why Mclaren are getting punsished for all this though, they are fully entitled to hold their drivers in the pit lane to ensure they get the best slot on track to do their quali run, if they had done this to the extent that it was detrimental to Hamilton then a) they are shooting themselves in the foot, and b) Alonso shouldnt be punished as well if the FIA truely believed that Mclaren were guilty.
I can fully understand the penalty to Alonso because apart from anything else, as he too was cutting it quite fine what the hell is the point of querying if the team have fitted the right tyres or not because they wouldnt have had time to get others out of the blankets and change them again anyway! Poor excuse IMHO.
Completely bemused why Mclaren are getting punsished for all this though, they are fully entitled to hold their drivers in the pit lane to ensure they get the best slot on track to do their quali run, if they had done this to the extent that it was detrimental to Hamilton then a) they are shooting themselves in the foot, and b) Alonso shouldnt be punished as well if the FIA truely believed that Mclaren were guilty.
My view is that there were three "crimes":
1. LH refusing to let FA pass when instructed to by the team (not dealt with by the Stewards)
2. FA then overstaying his pit stop (I'm guessing having read the Stewards' findings that the audio recording doesn't back up FA's claim regarding querying tyres). For which the Stewards relegated FA 5 places.
3. Maclaren were then docked the ability to score constructors points for "managing" their pitstops.
There is discussion on 10/10's that the Maclaren penalty was for the dodgy press release but I don't read it that way. As far as I can see the Maclaren penalty was for their activies which can only be their managing their strategies by holding FA (for the first 20 seconds).
That is a pretty dodgy precedent to me, surely all teams manage their qualifying strategies as they do their race strategies. At what point do the Stewards have the ability to intervene?
1. LH refusing to let FA pass when instructed to by the team (not dealt with by the Stewards)
2. FA then overstaying his pit stop (I'm guessing having read the Stewards' findings that the audio recording doesn't back up FA's claim regarding querying tyres). For which the Stewards relegated FA 5 places.
3. Maclaren were then docked the ability to score constructors points for "managing" their pitstops.
There is discussion on 10/10's that the Maclaren penalty was for the dodgy press release but I don't read it that way. As far as I can see the Maclaren penalty was for their activies which can only be their managing their strategies by holding FA (for the first 20 seconds).
That is a pretty dodgy precedent to me, surely all teams manage their qualifying strategies as they do their race strategies. At what point do the Stewards have the ability to intervene?
I think you guys are missing the critical point.
It was a pre-ordained plan (and part of Ron's 'equal' treatment) that Alonso would get to lead out on the first lap of Qualifying part three this time (last time it was Hamilton).
It was Hamilton that broke team orders by leading Alonso away and then not letting him by because he said, first Kimi was tight behind Alfonso and then he (Hami)) by setting a cracking fuel burn pace and gaining them an additional laps worth of fuel credit, but when he did relent Alfonso wasn't there so he pressed on.
All of which may or may not be bullshit. But it was suffiecient to upset Alfonso, who screwed Hamilton's final qualifying lap.
And also incurring Ron's wrath and ultimately causing the loss of any constructors points for McLaren.
Like I said somewhere else, Hamilton had dared NOT to come second. He just had to win after screwing the entire team.
It was a pre-ordained plan (and part of Ron's 'equal' treatment) that Alonso would get to lead out on the first lap of Qualifying part three this time (last time it was Hamilton).
It was Hamilton that broke team orders by leading Alonso away and then not letting him by because he said, first Kimi was tight behind Alfonso and then he (Hami)) by setting a cracking fuel burn pace and gaining them an additional laps worth of fuel credit, but when he did relent Alfonso wasn't there so he pressed on.
All of which may or may not be bullshit. But it was suffiecient to upset Alfonso, who screwed Hamilton's final qualifying lap.
And also incurring Ron's wrath and ultimately causing the loss of any constructors points for McLaren.
Like I said somewhere else, Hamilton had dared NOT to come second. He just had to win after screwing the entire team.
MacLaren were penalised because one of its drivers interfered in the qualifying of of another driver, all be it that both drivers are on the same team makes no odds. Alonso should have left the pit and and dawdled on the track until it was clear for his run not sat in the pits to hold LH up. If LH was out of order for ignoring the call then he would have been dealt with, two wrongs and a right and all that.
tuffer said:
MacLaren were penalised because one of its drivers interfered in the qualifying of of another driver, all be it that both drivers are on the same team makes no odds.
The Stewards decision doesn't say that, and that would be two penalties for the same "crime" wouldn't it? We have seen other drivers relegated for impeding other drivers on track but with no team penalties?
tuffer said:
Alonso should have left the pit and and dawdled on the track until it was clear for his run not sat in the pits to hold LH up.
Do you mean for the 20 seconds that the team held him which was to ensure a clear track or the 10 seconds that he overstayed? LocoBlade said:
Alonso spent another 10 seconds sitting in the box "clarifying whether he had the right tyres on or not", and it was this additional 10s delay that caused Hamilton to miss his last quali run.
I thought Alonso was kicking off about them putting him on hard compound tyres, when he wanted the softs compound that Hamilton was on?SKR said:
LocoBlade said:
Alonso spent another 10 seconds sitting in the box "clarifying whether he had the right tyres on or not", and it was this additional 10s delay that caused Hamilton to miss his last quali run.
I thought Alonso was kicking off about them putting him on hard compound tyres, when he wanted the softs compound that Hamilton was on?The Stewards have now opened a can of worms here, they have created a new rule on the fly, how long you are entitled to pit ... seems to me the problem was an internal Mclaren issue and has nothing to do with qualifying as both cars were being worked on, if Alonso had decided he was happy with his Afternoons work what ever his position, he could have decided to get out of the car, taking 10-20 secs and wrecking Hamilton last run. Should he have been penalized then , of course not !!
Mclaren run both car down to the wire on time and one now suffered ...
This simply looks like the FIA doing whatever is required to deliver Hamilton the F1 crown, because he is "marketable".
Hamilton is starting to behave like a spoiled brat, not obeying team orders from Ron who has sponsored him to where he is. If I was Ron I would replace Hamilton for the next race with the test driver, to show who is in charge of Mclaren
Mclaren run both car down to the wire on time and one now suffered ...
This simply looks like the FIA doing whatever is required to deliver Hamilton the F1 crown, because he is "marketable".
Hamilton is starting to behave like a spoiled brat, not obeying team orders from Ron who has sponsored him to where he is. If I was Ron I would replace Hamilton for the next race with the test driver, to show who is in charge of Mclaren
I think yr missing the point here - the team were penalized here - they've the one that lost the points. Alonso still scored points (in fact only dropped a couple of points to Lewis)
It's total nonsense that the team lost it's points - Mclaren should protest it - but i fear that they are worried that the appeal could be used against them and in the bigger scheme of things isn't worth the risk that it might effect the court of appeal hearing
It's total nonsense that the team lost it's points - Mclaren should protest it - but i fear that they are worried that the appeal could be used against them and in the bigger scheme of things isn't worth the risk that it might effect the court of appeal hearing
G Man said:
The Stewards have now opened a can of worms here, they have created a new rule on the fly, how long you are entitled to pit ... seems to me the problem was an internal Mclaren issue and has nothing to do with qualifying as both cars were being worked on, if Alonso had decided he was happy with his Afternoons work what ever his position, he could have decided to get out of the car, taking 10-20 secs and wrecking Hamilton last run. Should he have been penalized then , of course not !!
Mclaren run both car down to the wire on time and one now suffered ...
This simply looks like the FIA doing whatever is required to deliver Hamilton the F1 crown, because he is "marketable".
Hamilton is starting to behave like a spoiled brat, not obeying team orders from Ron who has sponsored him to where he is. If I was Ron I would replace Hamilton for the next race with the test driver, to show who is in charge of Mclaren
Mclaren run both car down to the wire on time and one now suffered ...
This simply looks like the FIA doing whatever is required to deliver Hamilton the F1 crown, because he is "marketable".
Hamilton is starting to behave like a spoiled brat, not obeying team orders from Ron who has sponsored him to where he is. If I was Ron I would replace Hamilton for the next race with the test driver, to show who is in charge of Mclaren
woof said:
I think yr missing the point here - the team were penalized here - they've the one that lost the points. Alonso still scored points (in fact only dropped a couple of points to Lewis)
It's total nonsense that the team lost it's points - Mclaren should protest it - but i fear that they are worried that the appeal could be used against them and in the bigger scheme of things isn't worth the risk that it might effect the court of appeal hearing
I totally agree Mclaren should not drop any points, but you missed the point the Stewards are now punishing a team and driver for how long they pit, seems to me they are doing this to ensure 1 particular driver wins the World title, they did this with Schumacher in the past, this suits their purpose and Bernie thinks a young f1 "tiger woods" is marketableIt's total nonsense that the team lost it's points - Mclaren should protest it - but i fear that they are worried that the appeal could be used against them and in the bigger scheme of things isn't worth the risk that it might effect the court of appeal hearing
G Man said:
The Stewards have now opened a can of worms here, they have created a new rule on the fly, how long you are entitled to pit ... seems to me the problem was an internal Mclaren issue and has nothing to do with qualifying as both cars were being worked on, if Alonso had decided he was happy with his Afternoons work what ever his position, he could have decided to get out of the car, taking 10-20 secs and wrecking Hamilton last run. Should he have been penalized then , of course not !!
Mclaren run both car down to the wire on time and one now suffered ...
This simply looks like the FIA doing whatever is required to deliver Hamilton the F1 crown, because he is "marketable".
Hamilton is starting to behave like a spoiled brat, not obeying team orders from Ron who has sponsored him to where he is. If I was Ron I would replace Hamilton for the next race with the test driver, to show who is in charge of Mclaren
Mclaren run both car down to the wire on time and one now suffered ...
This simply looks like the FIA doing whatever is required to deliver Hamilton the F1 crown, because he is "marketable".
Hamilton is starting to behave like a spoiled brat, not obeying team orders from Ron who has sponsored him to where he is. If I was Ron I would replace Hamilton for the next race with the test driver, to show who is in charge of Mclaren
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