Hamilton getting too big headed

[steaming2uk]

He's got the right attitude; Look after No. 1, and let the rest look after themselves.

[m3pilot]

motormania said:

the only thing that I could not understand at the weekend was the Alonso penalty.

He pissed off his own team mate - so what? Fine, if he had effected another driver in a different team, then by all means penalise him, but not when it is your own team mate. It's up to the team bosses to keep their drivers in line, not the race stewards...

I way a saw it was that he affected another drivers qualifying and therefore had a 6 place drop on the grid. In the same way one of the renault drivers had the same penilty. He could hardly keep a straight face when explaining why he'd done it.

I expect the penilty to Mclaren could just be to close up the championship to try and make it interesting between Mclaren and ferrari.

At the end of the day these are all highly competitive people who will sort themselve out first. After all no one can accuse Senna or Schumacher of always playing by the rules and they are considered to be the greats of the sport.

[flemke]

m3pilot said:

At the end of the day these are all highly competitive people who will sort themselve out first. After all no one can accuse Senna or Schumacher of always playing by the rules and they are considered to be the greats of the sport.

But therein lies the rub.
Senna and Schumacher are considered to be two of the greats - despite their dubious acts, not because of them.

Their records will always be at least a bit tainted, however, because of that.
In contrast, the reputations of Fangio and Clark, amongst a few others, were untainted, and they were the greater for it.

[anonymous-user]

RobbieMeister said:

johnfelstead said:

Indeed, but they were the first two, and have been for some time, Ron could organise who is first of the two he has control over.

I think you missed my point.

Maybe, please explain your point to me.

[anonymous-user]

motormania said:

He pissed off his own team mate - so what? Fine, if he had effected another driver in a different team, then by all means penalise him, but not when it is your own team mate. It's up to the team bosses to keep their drivers in line, not the race stewards...

What he did is against the F1 sporting regulations, which do not diferentiate between drivers being in the same team or not. There are two championships at stake, the Drivers and the Constructors, the FIA treat each driver as an individual because of this. That is why the stewards interviened, Alonso gave them no choice, he broke the F1 sporting regulations. Had he been smarter and not done that, then it would have been an internal McLaren problem to resolve.

[Leithen]

flemke said:

m3pilot said:

At the end of the day these are all highly competitive people who will sort themselve out first. After all no one can accuse Senna or Schumacher of always playing by the rules and they are considered to be the greats of the sport.

But therein lies the rub.
Senna and Schumacher are considered to be two of the greats - despite their dubious acts, not because of them.

Their records will always be at least a bit tainted, however, because of that.
In contrast, the reputations of Fangio and Clark, amongst a few others, were untainted, and they were the greater for it.

Well said - can't help thinking of Villeneuve and Scheckter in 79 at Monza too. For those too young, Villeneuve (Gilles) had every opportunity to pass his teammate Scheckter (Jody) and keep the title race alive, but he had an agreement with his teammate and team, and stuck to it (whilst admitedly praying for Scheckter to break!).

He was widely regarded as both the most competitive driver of the time, but also the most honourable. Examples L Hamilton might like to reflect on.

[RossiT]

steaming2uk said:

He's got the right attitude; Look after No. 1, and let the rest look after themselves.

Yes but when your given an order by you team you should do it not make up your own mind, it's the same in many professions, you may not like it but just do as your told.

[ph123]

Old world values versus new world values.
Except new world values encompasses millions more (money, people).
Certainly the impact of the individual misdemeanor on the corporate position would appear far greater.

[motormania]

Just a thought that I have not seen or read elsewhere...

If Ron wanted Alonso to be at the front of the queue at the end of the pits for Q3, why didn't he make sure that Lewis' mechanics held him back in the garage and allow Alonso to progress to the end of the pits first?

Would have solved all the problems surely...

[DJC]

He's competitive. Alonso is competitive. The car and team and competitive. The stakes are high.

Shit happens.

There are 2 possible outcomes:

1. Ron thinks "Im too old for this shit2 and knocks it on the head.
2. Ron thinks "We're back!" and lets them go hell for leather.

Those are the *only* 2 routes for the rest of this yr. The rest of it, the reasons, the causes, the excuses and frankly anybody else in F1 is now irrelevent. Senna has just broken his agreement with Prost and its game on again. How these two try to kick lumps out of each other on track from now on is the only story in town.

[Zhead]

What is fascinating about all of the comments above, and some of you are very well informed, is they all reflect on quotes and he said, she said, as well as the speculation of why LH was P1 in Q3 etc. All good stuff. But I personally think RD made decisions he lated regretted, his prerogative, but it affected both his drivers, who then threw their toys out of their prams. He is not going to admit he was wrong, it shows weakness, so he swallows the points loss and moves on. Leaving the press to squabble over the scraps of what really went on, and his drivers to go all corporate speak. In the ol' days a driver would kiss a pretty girl, throw an oily face cloth in to the crowd and walk off to his trailer with a grin on his face, satisfied with a job well done. The press want gossip not action, as it doesn't appeal to F1 doubters who buy into the stories.

And who wheeled out Eddie Jordan aka Louis Walsh to comment on a story he knows jack about? Get back in yer box.

[RobbieMeister]

johnfelstead said:

RobbieMeister said:

johnfelstead said:

Indeed, but they were the first two, and have been for some time, Ron could organise who is first of the two he has control over.

I think you missed my point.

Maybe, please explain your point to me.

If the team had held back Hamilton to allow Alonso to be first they might have ended up being less than first or second i.e. behind someone else. KR and Massa perhaps.

[RobbieMeister]

On another point;

Who got the stewards involved?

I have heard it said it was Lewis or his Dad.

Can anyone confirm that?

[anonymous-user]

RobbieMeister said:

johnfelstead said:

RobbieMeister said:

johnfelstead said:

Indeed, but they were the first two, and have been for some time, Ron could organise who is first of the two he has control over.

I think you missed my point.

Maybe, please explain your point to me.

If the team had held back Hamilton to allow Alonso to be first they might have ended up being less than first or second i.e. behind someone else. KR and Massa perhaps.

Ok thanks, i didn't miss your point, and my response is the same as i made originally.

[RobbieMeister]

johnfelstead said:

RobbieMeister said:

johnfelstead said:

RobbieMeister said:

johnfelstead said:

Indeed, but they were the first two, and have been for some time, Ron could organise who is first of the two he has control over.

I think you missed my point.

Maybe, please explain your point to me.

If the team had held back Hamilton to allow Alonso to be first they might have ended up being less than first or second i.e. behind someone else. KR and Massa perhaps.

Ok thanks, i didn't miss your point, and my response is the same as i made originally.

Then I have missed your point perhaps you would explain.

[flemke]

motormania said:

Just a thought that I have not seen or read elsewhere...

If Ron wanted Alonso to be at the front of the queue at the end of the pits for Q3, why didn't he make sure that Lewis' mechanics held him back in the garage and allow Alonso to progress to the end of the pits first?

Would have solved all the problems surely...

He was operating under the illusion that he had two drivers who sufficiently resembled adults that they would do what they were asked to do.

[g4ry13]

motormania said:

Just a thought that I have not seen or read elsewhere...

If Ron wanted Alonso to be at the front of the queue at the end of the pits for Q3, why didn't he make sure that Lewis' mechanics held him back in the garage and allow Alonso to progress to the end of the pits first?

Would have solved all the problems surely...

Thought I heard something like Lewis' car reached the correct temperatures before Alonso's so they released him before and then they were supposed to switch on track. I could be wrong though.

[RobbieMeister]

g4ry13 said:

motormania said:

Just a thought that I have not seen or read elsewhere...

If Ron wanted Alonso to be at the front of the queue at the end of the pits for Q3, why didn't he make sure that Lewis' mechanics held him back in the garage and allow Alonso to progress to the end of the pits first?

Would have solved all the problems surely...

Thought I heard something like Lewis' car reached the correct temperatures before Alonso's so they released him before and then they were supposed to switch on track. I could be wrong though.

You are not wrong

[Ramthorne]

flemke said:

He was operating under the illusion that he had two drivers who sufficiently resembled adults that they would do what they were asked to do.

Yes, I am finding this difficult to reconcile. I would have expected more respect from Lewis in Rons ability to set the strategy for Q3. Surely Rons driver impartiality is beyond question (and if it isn't, it is Lewis' favour)and so is his overall ability to put a decent strategy in place?

I have to say in my mid twenties I would have probably done the same as Alonso, but I have never been worth several million $ a year.

[IforB]

I'm not surprised he's a bit "cocky". When I was 22 I had a raging ego, as did most of us. The difference was I didn't have the press blowing sunshine up my backside on a daily basis or the potential to make such huge sums of money. That can only make it worse.

He's made a few inadvisable comments, but if you took just a selection of all the words all of us speak everyday, it would be very easy to spin it into something negative.

I couldn't really care less what his personality is like. I watch F1 to see racing and technology, not a soap opera where you have "favourites".

Hamilton maybe an arrogant ar*e, but so what? If he was around my house and started spouting off, then so be it, however I want to see him race a car, let the team worry about management of his ego.

One last thing. I know McLaren have a no favourites policy, but this whole situation smacks of Ron Dennis having lost control of his drivers. I know its easy with the benefit of hindsight but he just needs to be the boss and if that means ripping the drivers apart sometimes, so be it. They have to respect him and that doesn't seem to be the case at the moment. Maybe a team buiding weekend away would help!!

I just wish we had an "old school" driver like Hunt in the team. He'd have just had a fight then a tab and a drink and it would all be forgotten!