How do we fix F1?
Discussion
No fuel limits? No, that doesn't work. It's refuelling that is ruining the racing now. Overtaking is dominated by "pit-work", not by "driver skill".
I have said it before, and I shall say it again, F1 is about development, and is about innovation - which is why Colin Chapman was sooooo good.
So.
Decide how big a F1 car can be (ie: it'll fit in a 2.5m wide, 4m long, 1.5m high box)
It must be a single seater, and have open wheels.
You have 150litres of Bio-Ethanol or E85 fuel for the race. Each season, that quantity will be reduced, to encourage efficiency.
Go and build a car.
Engine. Free
Transmission/drive. Free - with manual gear shift. No CVT, no flappy paddles, no shove-yank sticks, proper H-gate box (to induce missed gears and more overtaking opportunities!)
Number & size of wheels. Free
Aerodynamics. Free.
Electronics - must have a button marked "Start" which when pressed makes the engine start!!
Why all free? Simple. You have 150 litres of fuel. If you engine is too powerful, it'll drink it all before the race is over.
If it's transmission isn't efficient, it'll drink more fuel. If you give it mega downforce, that = more drag = more fuel.
I have said it before, and I shall say it again, F1 is about development, and is about innovation - which is why Colin Chapman was sooooo good.
So.
Decide how big a F1 car can be (ie: it'll fit in a 2.5m wide, 4m long, 1.5m high box)
It must be a single seater, and have open wheels.
You have 150litres of Bio-Ethanol or E85 fuel for the race. Each season, that quantity will be reduced, to encourage efficiency.
Go and build a car.
Engine. Free
Transmission/drive. Free - with manual gear shift. No CVT, no flappy paddles, no shove-yank sticks, proper H-gate box (to induce missed gears and more overtaking opportunities!)
Number & size of wheels. Free
Aerodynamics. Free.
Electronics - must have a button marked "Start" which when pressed makes the engine start!!
Why all free? Simple. You have 150 litres of fuel. If you engine is too powerful, it'll drink it all before the race is over.
If it's transmission isn't efficient, it'll drink more fuel. If you give it mega downforce, that = more drag = more fuel.
No fuel limits? No, that doesn't work. It's refuelling that is ruining the racing now. Overtaking is dominated by "pit-work", not by "driver skill".
I have said it before, and I shall say it again, F1 is about development, and is about innovation - which is why Colin Chapman was sooooo good.
So.
Decide how big a F1 car can be (ie: it'll fit in a 2.5m wide, 4m long, 1.5m high box)
It must be a single seater, and have open wheels.
You have 150litres of Bio-Ethanol or E85 fuel for the race. Each season, that quantity will be reduced, to encourage efficiency.
Go and build a car.
Engine. Free
Transmission/drive. Free - with manual gear shift. No CVT, no flappy paddles, no shove-yank sticks, proper H-gate box (to induce missed gears and more overtaking opportunities!)
Number & size of wheels. Free
Aerodynamics. Free.
Electronics - must have a button marked "Start" which when pressed makes the engine start!!
Why all free? Simple. You have 150 litres of fuel. If you engine is too powerful, it'll drink it all before the race is over.
If it's transmission isn't efficient, it'll drink more fuel. If you give it mega downforce, that = more drag = more fuel.
I have said it before, and I shall say it again, F1 is about development, and is about innovation - which is why Colin Chapman was sooooo good.
So.
Decide how big a F1 car can be (ie: it'll fit in a 2.5m wide, 4m long, 1.5m high box)
It must be a single seater, and have open wheels.
You have 150litres of Bio-Ethanol or E85 fuel for the race. Each season, that quantity will be reduced, to encourage efficiency.
Go and build a car.
Engine. Free
Transmission/drive. Free - with manual gear shift. No CVT, no flappy paddles, no shove-yank sticks, proper H-gate box (to induce missed gears and more overtaking opportunities!)
Number & size of wheels. Free
Aerodynamics. Free.
Electronics - must have a button marked "Start" which when pressed makes the engine start!!
Why all free? Simple. You have 150 litres of fuel. If you engine is too powerful, it'll drink it all before the race is over.
If it's transmission isn't efficient, it'll drink more fuel. If you give it mega downforce, that = more drag = more fuel.
or we could accept the fact that F1 is as much about the technology involved as it is about the racing. It would be ridiculous to go backwards to old skool H pattern gearboxes, formula 1 should be the pinnacle of motorsport technology - returning them to FFord spec would be laughable.
If you want to watch racing then as everyone says, go watch some club racing. F1 is about technology, if it was a pure drivers championship then everyone would have the same cars and there would be no point in having constructor points. The challenge of F1 is to make the quickest car within the given rules, the drivers a simply another tool for doing this.
If you want to see drivers battling then watch GP2, F1 is about the cars NOT the drivers.
If you want to watch racing then as everyone says, go watch some club racing. F1 is about technology, if it was a pure drivers championship then everyone would have the same cars and there would be no point in having constructor points. The challenge of F1 is to make the quickest car within the given rules, the drivers a simply another tool for doing this.
If you want to see drivers battling then watch GP2, F1 is about the cars NOT the drivers.
Engines based on production block/head castings, say 3 litres but format free, fuel restrictions, larger diameter wheels with steel brakes, big wide sticky slicks and restricted wings, maybe control wings supplied by the FIA, 3 pedals and a proper stick to select the cogs.
the big budget teams with the brightest people will still be at the front, however a demon driver in a well designed car by an unknown could upset the apple cart as used to happen once in a while
the big budget teams with the brightest people will still be at the front, however a demon driver in a well designed car by an unknown could upset the apple cart as used to happen once in a while
NightDriver said:
or we could accept the fact that F1 is as much about the technology involved as it is about the racing. It would be ridiculous to go backwards to old skool H pattern gearboxes, formula 1 should be the pinnacle of motorsport technology - returning them to FFord spec would be laughable.
If you want to watch racing then as everyone says, go watch some club racing. F1 is about technology, if it was a pure drivers championship then everyone would have the same cars and there would be no point in having constructor points. The challenge of F1 is to make the quickest car within the given rules, the drivers a simply another tool for doing this.
If you want to see drivers battling then watch GP2, F1 is about the cars NOT the drivers.
No F1 is about the spectical, the excitement the visual entertainment.If you want to watch racing then as everyone says, go watch some club racing. F1 is about technology, if it was a pure drivers championship then everyone would have the same cars and there would be no point in having constructor points. The challenge of F1 is to make the quickest car within the given rules, the drivers a simply another tool for doing this.
If you want to see drivers battling then watch GP2, F1 is about the cars NOT the drivers.
If you want to see technology in action pull the side off of your PC and watch the circuir boards.
Without entertainmant F1 has no paying spectators or TV coverage.
Without spectators or TV coverage there is no sponsership and without sponsership F1 is goosed!
The cars get like 2-3mpg. Impose fuel restrictions that will force them to work on efficiency as well as power? Start with 5mpg and bump it 1mpg every couple years?
What is the Cd of an F1 car? Has to be pretty high with all the downforce generated. Put a cap on Cd?
Go to a 1.6L 4-cyl engine like most of Europe is driving?
Put sprinklers on a random timer at every circuit? The rain races are the best ones.
What is the Cd of an F1 car? Has to be pretty high with all the downforce generated. Put a cap on Cd?
Go to a 1.6L 4-cyl engine like most of Europe is driving?
Put sprinklers on a random timer at every circuit? The rain races are the best ones.
odyssey2200 said:
NightDriver said:
or we could accept the fact that F1 is as much about the technology involved as it is about the racing. It would be ridiculous to go backwards to old skool H pattern gearboxes, formula 1 should be the pinnacle of motorsport technology - returning them to FFord spec would be laughable.
If you want to watch racing then as everyone says, go watch some club racing. F1 is about technology, if it was a pure drivers championship then everyone would have the same cars and there would be no point in having constructor points. The challenge of F1 is to make the quickest car within the given rules, the drivers a simply another tool for doing this.
If you want to see drivers battling then watch GP2, F1 is about the cars NOT the drivers.
No F1 is about the spectical, the excitement the visual entertainment.If you want to watch racing then as everyone says, go watch some club racing. F1 is about technology, if it was a pure drivers championship then everyone would have the same cars and there would be no point in having constructor points. The challenge of F1 is to make the quickest car within the given rules, the drivers a simply another tool for doing this.
If you want to see drivers battling then watch GP2, F1 is about the cars NOT the drivers.
If you want to see technology in action pull the side off of your PC and watch the circuir boards.
Without entertainmant F1 has no paying spectators or TV coverage.
Without spectators or TV coverage there is no sponsership and without sponsership F1 is goosed!
As a designer it doesn;t matter to me how close the racing is, all I care about is the designs being the best and most reliable. If we came up with an idea which would make it even harder for cars to overtake then sure as hell it would go on the cars (if its within the rules!). I know its selfish but its that attitude of competition which keeps F1 close at the top and makes it what it is, it keeps the technology improving and stops it getting stagnant.
mko9 - F1 cars are already extremely efficient. When you get to the point that your engine is producing the maximum power for its size and engine speed you need to then minimise losses. Reducing friction and increasing efficiency is a huge part of the design process, is you can reduce the internal friction inside an engine/transmission your getting yourself free power - the best kind of power!
The Hypno-Toad said:
Engines are totally unlimited. You can have whatever you want; 5 litre V8s, rotarys, X36s, turbo 4s, supercharged flat 10s, petrol burning gas turbines, anything but you only have a certain amount of petrol, lets say 150 litres.....
The fuel is from one supplier regulated by the FIA so no Brabham style BASF V2 rocket fuels.
Interesting, but I can't see it happening... The fuel is from one supplier regulated by the FIA so no Brabham style BASF V2 rocket fuels.
Oil companies are big sponsors and active technology partners, keen to promote a link between the technology used on the circuit and that sold at the forecourt.
Fuel is already one of the most heavily regulated components of an F1 car...
Incremental regulation changes (like gradual reductions in fuel capacity) cost a fortune in r&d.
2pence worth. Feel free to agree or disagree.
1. Limit Spring rates - Teams can then spend all the time they like generating downforce, it will be worth sod all if the car is scraping along the ground. This will enable them to ditch wind tunnels.
2. Ban refuelling
3. Effective ECU policing - Traction control cocks up the racing, end of.
4. Smaller brakes - Longer braking distances to facilitate more overtaking. I understand that using steel brakes would do this anyway but Carbon is cool.
5. Ban refuelling
6. Engines - Quite openminded here. Went to a Ferrari day a few months ago where they had a V12, a V10, I think I saw a V8 but most importantly, one of them had a dirty big turbo on it. I think V10 or a turbo motor would be my preference. Flames would be good too.
7. Titanium under tray - The average punter thinks a plank is someone of low intelligence but everyone knows that sparks are cool. Refer to Senna vs Mansell at Barcelona.
8. Ban refuelling
6. Polarisation of Tyre compounds - Race tyres can last at least 90 % of race distance so as to make pitting a false economy. Qualifiers last 5 laps i.e. Out lap, 3 good laps, in Lap then they're shagged. As for how many sets the drivers are allowed, enough to make qualifying a 90 minute game of Liar's Poker on Saturday. Possibility of one "wild card" set which would do the out lap, in lap and one flyer.
7. Transmission - As much as I would like to see manuals again, I can see that Semi autos are here to stay on the grounds of cost.
8. Ban refuelling.
Summary:-
Get the cars able to run nose to tail in a convoy of flames and sparks and a nice noise.
Remove pit strategy from being an integral part of the racing by making pitstops pointless.
Provide more power and reduce downforce to enable more frequent overtaking.
1. Limit Spring rates - Teams can then spend all the time they like generating downforce, it will be worth sod all if the car is scraping along the ground. This will enable them to ditch wind tunnels.
2. Ban refuelling
3. Effective ECU policing - Traction control cocks up the racing, end of.
4. Smaller brakes - Longer braking distances to facilitate more overtaking. I understand that using steel brakes would do this anyway but Carbon is cool.
5. Ban refuelling
6. Engines - Quite openminded here. Went to a Ferrari day a few months ago where they had a V12, a V10, I think I saw a V8 but most importantly, one of them had a dirty big turbo on it. I think V10 or a turbo motor would be my preference. Flames would be good too.
7. Titanium under tray - The average punter thinks a plank is someone of low intelligence but everyone knows that sparks are cool. Refer to Senna vs Mansell at Barcelona.
8. Ban refuelling
6. Polarisation of Tyre compounds - Race tyres can last at least 90 % of race distance so as to make pitting a false economy. Qualifiers last 5 laps i.e. Out lap, 3 good laps, in Lap then they're shagged. As for how many sets the drivers are allowed, enough to make qualifying a 90 minute game of Liar's Poker on Saturday. Possibility of one "wild card" set which would do the out lap, in lap and one flyer.
7. Transmission - As much as I would like to see manuals again, I can see that Semi autos are here to stay on the grounds of cost.
8. Ban refuelling.
Summary:-
Get the cars able to run nose to tail in a convoy of flames and sparks and a nice noise.
Remove pit strategy from being an integral part of the racing by making pitstops pointless.
Provide more power and reduce downforce to enable more frequent overtaking.
jellison said:
Bagman - you are a VERY Wise Man
Very kind of you to say so. I stopped short of saying that all drivers were to start smoking again but let's face it, if a driver had to risk everything on one qualifying lap on super sticky tyres he'd be gagging for a snout.If F1 did change as I suggest, we could also be treated to Gerhard Berger showing that little pussy Scott Speed how to drive. Berger knew how to brake late..............
Edited by Bagman on Saturday 18th August 22:31
Bagman said:
jellison said:
Bagman - you are a VERY Wise Man
Very kind of you to say so. I stopped short of saying that all drivers were to start smoking again but let's face it, if a driver had to risk everything on one qualifying lap on super sticky tyres he'd be gagging for a snout.If F1 did change as I suggest, we could also be treated to Gerhard Berger showing that little pussy Scott Speed how to drive. Berger knew how to brake late..............
Edited by Bagman on Saturday 18th August 22:31
odyssey2200 said:
Bagman said:
jellison said:
Bagman - you are a VERY Wise Man
Very kind of you to say so. I stopped short of saying that all drivers were to start smoking again but let's face it, if a driver had to risk everything on one qualifying lap on super sticky tyres he'd be gagging for a snout.If F1 did change as I suggest, we could also be treated to Gerhard Berger showing that little pussy Scott Speed how to drive. Berger knew how to brake late..............
Edited by Bagman on Saturday 18th August 22:31
All the same, when was the last time you heared the following dialogue
"Did you see the GP on Sunday???!!!"
"Yer that fuel strategy really gave me the 'orn"
NightDriver said:
mko9 - F1 cars are already extremely efficient. When you get to the point that your engine is producing the maximum power for its size and engine speed you need to then minimise losses. Reducing friction and increasing efficiency is a huge part of the design process, is you can reduce the internal friction inside an engine/transmission your getting yourself free power - the best kind of power!
You apparently don't understand the definition of efficiency. Or are you going to start quoting me hp/L figures? Fuel efficiency is, surprisingly enough, an measure efficiency. I am going to stick by my original arguement, and say third Bagman's suggestion for no refueling.Bagman said:
odyssey2200 said:
Bagman said:
jellison said:
Bagman - you are a VERY Wise Man
Very kind of you to say so. I stopped short of saying that all drivers were to start smoking again but let's face it, if a driver had to risk everything on one qualifying lap on super sticky tyres he'd be gagging for a snout.If F1 did change as I suggest, we could also be treated to Gerhard Berger showing that little pussy Scott Speed how to drive. Berger knew how to brake late..............
Edited by Bagman on Saturday 18th August 22:31
All the same, when was the last time you heared the following dialogue
"Did you see the GP on Sunday???!!!"
"Yer that fuel strategy really gave me the 'orn"
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