Discussion
Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but here goes...
Why is it that F1 tyres seem to be so high profile?
On road cars, the higher performance versions have lower and lower profiles and thats to use on bumpy streets. Surely the tracks are smoother and so you would expect F1 to have the lowest profile of all?
Why is it that F1 tyres seem to be so high profile?
On road cars, the higher performance versions have lower and lower profiles and thats to use on bumpy streets. Surely the tracks are smoother and so you would expect F1 to have the lowest profile of all?
I might be wrong but...
An F1 car and its suspension is so stiff that the tyre effectly acts as a damper and is the movement of the suspension. If the tyre was low profile then the cars would be too stiff and couldn't handle bumps etc. Then you'd have to loosen the suspension to cope with bumps and you'd have problems with sprung weight moving about. Hence, you make the tyres high profile and use them as your suspension.
An F1 car and its suspension is so stiff that the tyre effectly acts as a damper and is the movement of the suspension. If the tyre was low profile then the cars would be too stiff and couldn't handle bumps etc. Then you'd have to loosen the suspension to cope with bumps and you'd have problems with sprung weight moving about. Hence, you make the tyres high profile and use them as your suspension.
F1 wheels/tyres are about performance, car wheels/tyres are about looks 
In general a bigger wheel/tyre combo will increase rotating mass which means the power to the road is decreased.
Have you noticed that most proper sport cars that are used on track don't have the optional extra 2" upgraded wheels.
In general a bigger wheel/tyre combo will increase rotating mass which means the power to the road is decreased.
Have you noticed that most proper sport cars that are used on track don't have the optional extra 2" upgraded wheels.
10 Pence Short said:
I might be wrong but...
An F1 car and its suspension is so stiff that the tyre effectly acts as a damper and is the movement of the suspension. If the tyre was low profile then the cars would be too stiff and couldn't handle bumps etc. Then you'd have to loosen the suspension to cope with bumps and you'd have problems with sprung weight moving about. Hence, you make the tyres high profile and use them as your suspension.
I think you're right An F1 car and its suspension is so stiff that the tyre effectly acts as a damper and is the movement of the suspension. If the tyre was low profile then the cars would be too stiff and couldn't handle bumps etc. Then you'd have to loosen the suspension to cope with bumps and you'd have problems with sprung weight moving about. Hence, you make the tyres high profile and use them as your suspension.
Baldylocks said:
10 Pence Short said:
I might be wrong but...
An F1 car and its suspension is so stiff that the tyre effectly acts as a damper and is the movement of the suspension. If the tyre was low profile then the cars would be too stiff and couldn't handle bumps etc. Then you'd have to loosen the suspension to cope with bumps and you'd have problems with sprung weight moving about. Hence, you make the tyres high profile and use them as your suspension.
I think you're right An F1 car and its suspension is so stiff that the tyre effectly acts as a damper and is the movement of the suspension. If the tyre was low profile then the cars would be too stiff and couldn't handle bumps etc. Then you'd have to loosen the suspension to cope with bumps and you'd have problems with sprung weight moving about. Hence, you make the tyres high profile and use them as your suspension.
Truckosaurus said:
Isn't the size mandated by the regulations, to keep the cars looking 'proper'.
Le Mans prototypes use low-profile tyres, so it's not that there is some technical advantage to balloon tyres on F1 cars.
Yep, F1 tyres are that way thanks to the rules, otherwise I am sure they would be much lower profile. Technically, this has meant that most of the compliance required by the car is in the tyres and hence they are now very stiffly sprung (and that it helps maintain a consistent aero performance)Le Mans prototypes use low-profile tyres, so it's not that there is some technical advantage to balloon tyres on F1 cars.
MrKipling43 said:
Baldylocks said:
10 Pence Short said:
I might be wrong but...
An F1 car and its suspension is so stiff that the tyre effectly acts as a damper and is the movement of the suspension. If the tyre was low profile then the cars would be too stiff and couldn't handle bumps etc. Then you'd have to loosen the suspension to cope with bumps and you'd have problems with sprung weight moving about. Hence, you make the tyres high profile and use them as your suspension.
I think you're right An F1 car and its suspension is so stiff that the tyre effectly acts as a damper and is the movement of the suspension. If the tyre was low profile then the cars would be too stiff and couldn't handle bumps etc. Then you'd have to loosen the suspension to cope with bumps and you'd have problems with sprung weight moving about. Hence, you make the tyres high profile and use them as your suspension.
10 Pence Short said:
I might be wrong but...
An F1 car and its suspension is so stiff that the tyre effectly acts as a damper and is the movement of the suspension. If the tyre was low profile then the cars would be too stiff and couldn't handle bumps etc. Then you'd have to loosen the suspension to cope with bumps and you'd have problems with sprung weight moving about. Hence, you make the tyres high profile and use them as your suspension.
But do not the tyres act as an undamped spring? I would have thought that was a snag.An F1 car and its suspension is so stiff that the tyre effectly acts as a damper and is the movement of the suspension. If the tyre was low profile then the cars would be too stiff and couldn't handle bumps etc. Then you'd have to loosen the suspension to cope with bumps and you'd have problems with sprung weight moving about. Hence, you make the tyres high profile and use them as your suspension.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
The only reason F1 cars use the 13" wheels is because of the rules. If they didnt have to use them then they would use more conventional lower profile tyres. However as the rules have always been like this the cars have developed in such a way that the suspension movement is minimal and the tyre deflection is a large aspect in the vehicles suspension. If the rules were to suddenly allow any size wheels then the cars would have to change a large amount to give them the required suspension travel, it would not really be viable.
Most race cars are designed from the tyres up, it is the most important single aspect of the car and the only link between it and the track.
Most race cars are designed from the tyres up, it is the most important single aspect of the car and the only link between it and the track.
NightDriver said:
The only reason F1 cars use the 13" wheels is because of the rules. If they didnt have to use them then they would use more conventional lower profile tyres. However as the rules have always been like this the cars have developed in such a way that the suspension movement is minimal and the tyre deflection is a large aspect in the vehicles suspension. If the rules were to suddenly allow any size wheels then the cars would have to change a large amount to give them the required suspension travel, it would not really be viable.
Most race cars are designed from the tyres up, it is the most important single aspect of the car and the only link between it and the track.
Spot on. Rules make the cars stiff and the tyres soft. If there was choice the cars would be softer and the tyres low profile as they can control the car a lot better than the tyre.Most race cars are designed from the tyres up, it is the most important single aspect of the car and the only link between it and the track.
F1 wheel rim and tyre sizes are strictly defined in the regulations. The rim diameter is restricted to 13" primarily to limit brake size.
The tyre does form a substantial part of the overall springing, but tyres are practically undamped when rotating. Fortunately the large aerodynamic forces tend to stop them bouncing around too much.
If there were no regulations, F1 wheel rims would be larger and the rear tyres at least would be wider.
However, extremely low profile road tyres are purely cosmetic. Touring cars in the late 90's switched from 18" to 19" rims for various reasons, but the 18" were actually quicker. I think high performance road cars generally work best on 17" wheels. Anything bigger is just for looks.
The tyre does form a substantial part of the overall springing, but tyres are practically undamped when rotating. Fortunately the large aerodynamic forces tend to stop them bouncing around too much.
If there were no regulations, F1 wheel rims would be larger and the rear tyres at least would be wider.
However, extremely low profile road tyres are purely cosmetic. Touring cars in the late 90's switched from 18" to 19" rims for various reasons, but the 18" were actually quicker. I think high performance road cars generally work best on 17" wheels. Anything bigger is just for looks.
uktrailmonster said:
F1 wheel rim and tyre sizes are strictly defined in the regulations. The rim diameter is restricted to 13" primarily to limit brake size
I was under the impression F1 teams use the smallest discs possible to reduce rotational, unsprung inertia, the most important weight on a car.
Something like 13inch rim diameter IIRC.jon- said:
uktrailmonster said:
F1 wheel rim and tyre sizes are strictly defined in the regulations. The rim diameter is restricted to 13" primarily to limit brake size
I was under the impression F1 teams use the smallest discs possible to reduce rotational, unsprung inertia, the most important weight on a car.Large profile tyre walls help traction, you only have to look at the balloons the drag racers use to see this, the circumferential deformation of the tyre wall helps the bite the tarmac under longitudinal acceleration, however the larger the profile, the less cornering stiffness the tyre has, which is detrimental to the turn-in and feel of the tyre. I guess the 13inch rim is the traditionally best comprimise that teams have gotten to, a bit like standardising on V10 (now V8 engines), instead of the likes of the 'rarri V12 howlers etc. Remember the 6wheelers, they ran 10in fronts to try and reduce the frontal area of the car but without sacrificing mechanical front end grip.
Why LMP cars run elastic bands for tyres I'm not sure, maybe the heavier car suits a lower profile better as the cars can rely on the extra weight (some 300kg or approx 50% more than an F1 car) of the car for more longitudinal mechanical grip.
Regards
Iain
Why LMP cars run elastic bands for tyres I'm not sure, maybe the heavier car suits a lower profile better as the cars can rely on the extra weight (some 300kg or approx 50% more than an F1 car) of the car for more longitudinal mechanical grip.
Regards
Iain
jon- said:
uktrailmonster said:
F1 wheel rim and tyre sizes are strictly defined in the regulations. The rim diameter is restricted to 13" primarily to limit brake size
I was under the impression F1 teams use the smallest discs possible to reduce rotational, unsprung inertia, the most important weight on a car.jon- said:
I was under the impression F1 teams use the smallest discs possible to reduce rotational, unsprung inertia, the most important weight on a car.
Larger diameter discs are not necessarily heavier. It's more efficient to use a larger diameter, thinner disc, with smaller brake calipers, due to the increased leverage. With the current 13" limitation, the calipers are pushed right out to within a couple of mm of the wheel rim. Just enough clearance to prevent the wheel rubbing when loaded.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff