BTCC @ Brands (spoilers possible)
Discussion
foreright said:
runway78 said:
BTCC went down hill when kncoking someone out of the way became an ok pass. There was one moment today when a place was taken by just hitting the other guy up the rear and going through. The commentors got excited and said that is touring car racing. The same way the cock gets excited by a "pass" in F1 using pit stops.
This is it exactly - 'tapping' someone off into the gravel is hardly a good way of passing :P Matt Neal is one of the worst culprits for this, being seemingly unable to make a clean pass.MonkeyHanger said:
runway78 said:
I remeber watching early 90's touring cars where "clean" racing was the order of the day and with no sign of a wheel of fortune to decide the grid (really!) Okay there was contact but it was not the norm and was looked down upon. Now hitting someone out of the way is ok.
BTCC is awful now, my pennies worth!
I think you might want to remove those rose-tinted specs.BTCC is awful now, my pennies worth!
The likes of John Cleland, Steve Soper, Tim Harvey and co were capable of exactly the same sort of games that everyone whinges about today.
Rouse, Brodie, Gravett, Bristow, Goode, Percy, Bristow, Hodgetts, Soper, Newman, Walker, Harvey, Sytner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEPvDlVK0zA
MonkeyHanger said:
runway78 said:
I remeber watching early 90's touring cars where "clean" racing was the order of the day and with no sign of a wheel of fortune to decide the grid (really!) Okay there was contact but it was not the norm and was looked down upon. Now hitting someone out of the way is ok.
BTCC is awful now, my pennies worth!
I think you might want to remove those rose-tinted specs.BTCC is awful now, my pennies worth!
The likes of John Cleland, Steve Soper, Tim Harvey and co were capable of exactly the same sort of games that everyone whinges about today. .
'The car upside-down is a Toyota'
IIRC it was the other Toyota that was involved.
FourWheelDrift said:
MonkeyHanger said:
runway78 said:
I remeber watching early 90's touring cars where "clean" racing was the order of the day and with no sign of a wheel of fortune to decide the grid (really!) Okay there was contact but it was not the norm and was looked down upon. Now hitting someone out of the way is ok.
BTCC is awful now, my pennies worth!
I think you might want to remove those rose-tinted specs.BTCC is awful now, my pennies worth!
The likes of John Cleland, Steve Soper, Tim Harvey and co were capable of exactly the same sort of games that everyone whinges about today.
Rouse, Brodie, Gravett, Bristow, Goode, Percy, Bristow, Hodgetts, Soper, Newman, Walker, Harvey, Sytner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEPvDlVK0zA
I'm sure you could find a clipped video of decent racing from BTCC this year, and a video from the 1980's racing that shows loads of crashes. I'm not defending BTCC as I don't really care what people think of it, but i'm sick of all the
ing "it was better :in what ever century I liked watching that series:" bullshit. I can't surely be the only one? It was better in the 70's, in the 80's, in the 90's, and in several years time it will be "it was better in 2007 when they did proper racing".Do I care if teams have to pay loads on repairs? No. Do I care if someone is hurt or killed? Yes of course, but Senna was killed taking a corner completely normally with no one near, and other people have had massive crashes due to stupid driving and walked away. Hence even race gloves have a label telling you motor sport can be dangerous.
But no your right, F1 is too dull because they never overtake, and BTCC is far too dangerous as they do overtake and have crashes. All in all, they make to much sound for the old codgers that have brought a house near a race circuit, so why don't we just ban it all, I mean it will stop the dullness, the danger, the angry residence, and the carbon footprint.
I used to watch the BTCC as a kid, When I first started watching it was the early 90's, with Mondeos, Volvo's, Renaults etc, a full field. I used to love it, it realy appealed to me as a kid. Why? Because it was full of action - I.E. people smashing each other up every race, and comedy 'feuds' between drivers.
It hasnt changed at all from what I can remember.
It hasnt changed at all from what I can remember.
snotrag said:
I used to watch the BTCC as a kid, When I first started watching it was the early 90's, with Mondeos, Volvo's, Renaults etc, a full field. I used to love it, it realy appealed to me as a kid. Why? Because it was full of action - I.E. people smashing each other up every race, and comedy 'feuds' between drivers.
It hasnt changed at all from what I can remember.
I'm the same. I was a kid when this happened. In fact I was there!It hasnt changed at all from what I can remember.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsOAZxi1S_E
Now that was nasty, and if I remember correctly he was unconcious for a few days. These drivers are not the best race drivers in the world. It's a national tin top formula and as such the drivers will run out of talent when pushing hard, and find other interesting ways to pass people. But thats what makes it fun to watch.
Another part of me is sure that if F1 cars we're tougher we'd see more touching going on....
I was there as well stood on Paddock Hill Bend for the first race and it was amazing watching everyone pile into each other, I have to say I think Mat Jackson was unlucky, Colin Turkingtons spin was exactly the same later on so if Jackson gets a ban in theory Turkington should as well.
The Clios were a bunch of numpties, how the feck do you spin on a warm up lap and put it in the tyre barriers? Their first lap was probably the most entertaining thing i've ever seen as it was impossible to work out where to look as they were falling off everywhere!
The Porsche cup was good, Maxi Jazz obviously got bored being last and threw it at the scenery on Paddock Hill causing yet another safety car to come out, but they sound lovely!
It was a good day, but the standard of driving was pretty appaling in everything except the SEAT Leons and Formula BMW/Renault and even they had their moments.
It kept the marshals busy I suppose!
The Clios were a bunch of numpties, how the feck do you spin on a warm up lap and put it in the tyre barriers? Their first lap was probably the most entertaining thing i've ever seen as it was impossible to work out where to look as they were falling off everywhere!
The Porsche cup was good, Maxi Jazz obviously got bored being last and threw it at the scenery on Paddock Hill causing yet another safety car to come out, but they sound lovely!
It was a good day, but the standard of driving was pretty appaling in everything except the SEAT Leons and Formula BMW/Renault and even they had their moments.
It kept the marshals busy I suppose!
Nic Jones said:
The Porsche cup was good, Maxi Jazz obviously got bored being last and threw it at the scenery on Paddock Hill causing yet another safety car to come out, but they sound lovely!
Was watching from one of the boxes - on the warm up lap I called a sweepstake on which lap Maxi would bin it (don't think I've ever seen him complete a race at Brands, I remember a Fiesta race where he rolled at Paddock!). 2 laps in and whilst watching the sharp end of the field I hear a mate saying "that's a rubbish line into Paddock", next thing he's thrown it into the gravel. From what I hear he was almost on the inside of the track when he turned in 
snotrag said:
Gareth Jones. Agreed aswell, he did a fantastic job keeping Turkington behind him in an obviously faster car.
I thought him getting punted into the air was the unluckiest of the weekend, he must have been devastated.
Get him in a Seat or a Vectra...
He ia a top 3 driver in a Top BTCC car - they must see that (the team owners).I thought him getting punted into the air was the unluckiest of the weekend, he must have been devastated.
Get him in a Seat or a Vectra...
snotrag said:
Gareth Jones. Agreed aswell, he did a fantastic job keeping Turkington behind him in an obviously faster car.
I thought him getting punted into the air was the unluckiest of the weekend, he must have been devastated.
Get him in a Seat or a Vectra...
That was some fantastic wheel to wheel racing between the seat and the beemer, right up untill they remembered they were in touring cars and punted each other off.I thought him getting punted into the air was the unluckiest of the weekend, he must have been devastated.
Get him in a Seat or a Vectra...
I must have watched a different BTCC during the 80s and 90s then.
Cleland, especially, wasn't afraid of just driving his Cavalier straight into people. Neither were the Volvos - who invariably came off better. The 406s were frequently used as battering rams, as were the Alfas and Primeras.
Going back the RWD days, then there wasn't much need to nudge an RS500 - simply following one until it went bang was usually enough. But again, there were some pretty wild and fearless moves pulled in the effort of getting past.
You should remember that an RS500 or E30 M3 is tiny in comparison to a Vectra or an E90 - you used to be able to get 'em three wide at Paddock back then.
Cleland, especially, wasn't afraid of just driving his Cavalier straight into people. Neither were the Volvos - who invariably came off better. The 406s were frequently used as battering rams, as were the Alfas and Primeras.
Going back the RWD days, then there wasn't much need to nudge an RS500 - simply following one until it went bang was usually enough. But again, there were some pretty wild and fearless moves pulled in the effort of getting past.
You should remember that an RS500 or E30 M3 is tiny in comparison to a Vectra or an E90 - you used to be able to get 'em three wide at Paddock back then.
snotrag said:
Gareth Jones. Agreed aswell, he did a fantastic job keeping Turkington behind him in an obviously faster car.
I thought him getting punted into the air was the unluckiest of the weekend, he must have been devastated.
Get him in a Seat or a Vectra...
Gareth Jones? Who's he? Never heard of him! I thought Adam Jones was good though. I thought him getting punted into the air was the unluckiest of the weekend, he must have been devastated.
Get him in a Seat or a Vectra...
The main thing that's been bugging me about the BTCC of late isn't so much the stock car overtaking tactics, as they've been doing that ever since I first started watching it in the late 80s, more the way said tactics now seem to be celebrated and viewed as part of the racing. There seems to be an attitude that the racing is only exciting when people are driving into each other, which is sad. If I want bumping and barging, I'll go to my local short oval and watch the BriSCA guys. I feel especially sorry for the smaller teams. Much more of the bumper car stuff and they'll be priced out of the series, which means grids dwindle and ultimately the factory teams decide it isn't worth the money and go off and do WTCC or something instead, at which point we have no more BTCC.
IMO a little nudge is part of this form of racing and is always going to be the case. Using the bloke in front as a brake isn't.
Pushing them a touch wide is naughty but it's a question of give and take. Firing them into the wall should result in a trip to the CotC.
It is also a question of where you do it. Going into Druids at Brands, Luffield at Silverstone etc is one thing. Doing it at Church at Thruxton or Camp at Coombe and that should be your last race...
Pushing them a touch wide is naughty but it's a question of give and take. Firing them into the wall should result in a trip to the CotC.
It is also a question of where you do it. Going into Druids at Brands, Luffield at Silverstone etc is one thing. Doing it at Church at Thruxton or Camp at Coombe and that should be your last race...
Edited by rude-boy on Monday 20th August 14:49
snotrag said:
Gareth Jones. Agreed aswell, he did a fantastic job keeping Turkington behind him in an obviously faster car.
I thought him getting punted into the air was the unluckiest of the weekend, he must have been devastated.
Get him in a Seat or a Vectra...
His name is Adam Jones.......I thought him getting punted into the air was the unluckiest of the weekend, he must have been devastated.
Get him in a Seat or a Vectra...
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