the life of senna
Discussion
hawk 427 said:
ive just started reading the tom rubython book the life of senna really good so far, didnt realise how good a driver martin brundle actually was before his accident,anyway has anyone else read this book and who do you consider as the greatest driver
Out of interest, what accident?....Didn't he break his leg/s in one?rubystone said:
hawk 427 said:
ive just started reading the tom rubython book the life of senna really good so far, didnt realise how good a driver martin brundle actually was before his accident,anyway has anyone else read this book and who do you consider as the greatest driver
Out of interest, what accident?....Didn't he break his leg/s in one?rubystone said:
hawk 427 said:
ive just started reading the tom rubython book the life of senna really good so far, didnt realise how good a driver martin brundle actually was before his accident,anyway has anyone else read this book and who do you consider as the greatest driver
Out of interest, what accident?....Didn't he break his leg/s in one?Teppic said:
rubystone said:
hawk 427 said:
ive just started reading the tom rubython book the life of senna really good so far, didnt realise how good a driver martin brundle actually was before his accident,anyway has anyone else read this book and who do you consider as the greatest driver
Out of interest, what accident?....Didn't he break his leg/s in one?
trackcar said:
Teppic said:
rubystone said:
hawk 427 said:
ive just started reading the tom rubython book the life of senna really good so far, didnt realise how good a driver martin brundle actually was before his accident,anyway has anyone else read this book and who do you consider as the greatest driver
Out of interest, what accident?....Didn't he break his leg/s in one?
Only now when I re-read it do I realise what I said!What I obviously meant was that he broke his ankles in a crash during one of the practice sessions for the 1984 Dallas GP.
Teppic said:
rubystone said:
hawk 427 said:
ive just started reading the tom rubython book the life of senna really good so far, didnt realise how good a driver martin brundle actually was before his accident,anyway has anyone else read this book and who do you consider as the greatest driver
Out of interest, what accident?....Didn't he break his leg/s in one?Bagman said:
rubystone said:
hawk 427 said:
ive just started reading the tom rubython book the life of senna really good so far, didnt realise how good a driver martin brundle actually was before his accident,anyway has anyone else read this book and who do you consider as the greatest driver
Out of interest, what accident?....Didn't he break his leg/s in one?hawk 427 said:
ive just started reading the tom rubython book the life of senna really good so far, didnt realise how good a driver martin brundle actually was before his accident,anyway has anyone else read this book and who do you consider as the greatest driver
That's cheating, trying to get two threads in one 
Anyway, I've read the book, it's a good read. I thought Martin Brundle's pre-F1 promise was generally well known. The 1983 (?) F3 season-long fight between Senna and Brundle should've (imho) earned Brundle a shot at big league F1. Shame - an F1 career littered with bad luck and poor equipment. Very good sportscar racer too.
just came back off hols and read the Rubython Senna book (very good and quite emotional in my opinion), Eddie Jordans book (very EJ, witty and intelligent) and Brundles circuit book (interesting insight into the tracks from an F1 perspective). Ironically, all three books were very interlinked, with EJ running Brundle in F3, and Brundle and Senna being head and shoulders above their peers that year in F3, often clashing and running head to head. EJ also offered Senna 49% of Jordan F1 team if he came and drove for them.
it wasnt by design that i read those three in a week, but certainly a lucky choice and timing.
it wasnt by design that i read those three in a week, but certainly a lucky choice and timing.
CNHSS1 said:
just came back off hols and read the Rubython Senna book (very good and quite emotional in my opinion), Eddie Jordans book (very EJ, witty and intelligent) and Brundles circuit book (interesting insight into the tracks from an F1 perspective). Ironically, all three books were very interlinked, with EJ running Brundle in F3, and Brundle and Senna being head and shoulders above their peers that year in F3, often clashing and running head to head. EJ also offered Senna 49% of Jordan F1 team if he came and drove for them.
it wasnt by design that i read those three in a week, but certainly a lucky choice and timing.
three books in a week where did you go on holiday it wasnt by design that i read those three in a week, but certainly a lucky choice and timing.
rubystone said:
Brundle rolled at Adelaide in the Jordan too in 1996 or thereabouts - I remember him sprinting back to the pits - not sure without googling whether he re-started the race or not....I don't think he did
He did, but spun off after light contact with Pedro Diniz at the restart.I enjoyed the book but I did feel it lacked a bit of depth in terms of the racing descriptions, concentrated a bit too much on the personal side, sometimes a bit too personal IMO.
Greatest driver?... probably Senna but Fangio, Nuvolari, Moss, Clarke, Stewert, Prost, Schumi.. and a few others run him close.
It's an age old question but we will never have an answer. Some never had chance for various reasons, Gilles Villenuave, Francoise Cevert.... etc etc
Greatest driver?... probably Senna but Fangio, Nuvolari, Moss, Clarke, Stewert, Prost, Schumi.. and a few others run him close.
It's an age old question but we will never have an answer. Some never had chance for various reasons, Gilles Villenuave, Francoise Cevert.... etc etc
Ayrton Senna
It will be 14 years next May and I still get a lump in my throat. Don't know why as I was always on the Mansell side of the camp but I can't even bring myself to read the the book.
I will one day. I've also got the BBC 2 Documentary in tribute to Ayrton in VHS that was shown at the end of '94. I defy anyone to watch that and keep a dry eye!
Senna V Schumacher in '94, '95 - what a battle that would have been.
It will be 14 years next May and I still get a lump in my throat. Don't know why as I was always on the Mansell side of the camp but I can't even bring myself to read the the book.
I will one day. I've also got the BBC 2 Documentary in tribute to Ayrton in VHS that was shown at the end of '94. I defy anyone to watch that and keep a dry eye!
Senna V Schumacher in '94, '95 - what a battle that would have been.
Edited by CBC on Friday 31st August 22:47
Edited by CBC on Friday 31st August 22:48
Rubython's integrity as a journalist has been called into question on a number of occasions.
Brundle's roll in the Jordan was at the 1996 Australian GP in Albert Park, MELBOURNE - the first one to be held there. He RAN back to the pits, gave Sid Watkins the thumbs up (to the cheers of the Aussie crowd) and took the restart.
Brundle's roll in the Jordan was at the 1996 Australian GP in Albert Park, MELBOURNE - the first one to be held there. He RAN back to the pits, gave Sid Watkins the thumbs up (to the cheers of the Aussie crowd) and took the restart.
Eric Mc said:
Rubython's integrity as a journalist has been called into question on a number of occasions.
The best under statement I've read in a long time
Back to the OP question:
"who do you consider as the greatest driver""
Certainly not Senna, yes I'll give you that he was very talented but the greatest no way.
The true greats don't have to cheat - in case you have short memories Senna started the 'chop' move and the blocking that a certain German carried on to great effect.
No really great drivers do not cheat, end of story.
The greatest driver, of the near, modern era is without a doubt Sir Stirling. Google to find more.
Greatest of all time Nuvolari. Google to find more.
But as we are talking about F1 how about who was the fastest driver?
No contest.
Gilles - if you have to ask who, then you are no motor racing fan. But please Google to find more you will not be disappointed.
Couple of quotes about Gilles:
"He had the best talent of all of us. He didn't drive for points, but to win races. He was the best - and the fastest - racing driver in the world. And I liked him even more than I admired him".
Niki Lauda
"That was the greatest drive I have ever seen - by anyone. Villeneuve never slipped up once - and that Ferrari was terrible!"
Gordon Murray
Finally one that says it all for me:
From Nigel Roebuck in Autosport.
"the Courbe de Pouas, at Dijon, in qualifying in 1981.
This was a very fast, undulating, flat-in-fourth, right-hander, with no run-off worth the name, and Gilles had crashed there during Saturday morning practice. During the lunch break I found him dabbing a cut on his jaw: "Bloody catch fence pole cracked my helmet, and broke through the visor..."
"You overdid it?" I asked. "Just ran out of road?" "No, no," Gilles grinned, "I ran out of lock! This thing" – he pointed to the turboharged Ferrari 126C – "is a shitbox at the best of times, but through that corner it's really terrible – an adventure every time. Go and have a look this afternoon, and you'll see what I mean."
I did. I watched the Cosworth-powered Williams and Brabhams drone through, on rails, and waited.
At its clipping point, at the top of a rise, the Ferrari was already sideways, its driver winding on opposite lock. As it came past me, plunging downhill now, the tail stayed out, further and further, and still Gilles had his foot hard in it. As the car reached the bottom of the dip, the situation looked hopeless, for now it was virtually broadside, full lock on, Villeneuve's head pointing up the road – out of the side of the cockpit...
Somehow, though, the Ferrari did not spin, finally snapping back into line as it grazed the catch fencing, then rocketing away up the hill. For more than 100 yards, I swear it, the car was sideways, at over 130mph. "That's genius," said David Hobbs, watching with me. "Are you seriously telling me he's won two Grands Prix in that?"
Sorry for the long post - but passion took over.
Steve
Edited by skeggysteve on Saturday 1st September 00:57
skeggysteve said:
Eric Mc said:
Rubython's integrity as a journalist has been called into question on a number of occasions.
The best under statement I've read in a long time
Back to the OP question:
"who do you consider as the greatest driver""
Certainly not Senna, yes I'll give you that he was very talented but the greatest no way.
The true greats don't have to cheat - in case you have short memories Senna started the 'chop' move and the blocking that a certain German carried on to great effect.
No really great drivers do not cheat, end of story.
The greatest driver, of the near, modern era is without a doubt Sir Stirling. Google to find more.
Greatest of all time Nuvolari. Google to find more.
But as we are talking about F1 how about who was the fastest driver?
No contest.
Gilles - if you have to ask who, then you are no motor racing fan. But please Google to find more you will not be disappointed.
Couple of quotes about Gilles:
"He had the best talent of all of us. He didn't drive for points, but to win races. He was the best - and the fastest - racing driver in the world. And I liked him even more than I admired him".
Niki Lauda
"That was the greatest drive I have ever seen - by anyone. Villeneuve never slipped up once - and that Ferrari was terrible!"
Gordon Murray
Finally one that says it all for me:
From Nigel Roebuck in Autosport.
"the Courbe de Pouas, at Dijon, in qualifying in 1981.
This was a very fast, undulating, flat-in-fourth, right-hander, with no run-off worth the name, and Gilles had crashed there during Saturday morning practice. During the lunch break I found him dabbing a cut on his jaw: "Bloody catch fence pole cracked my helmet, and broke through the visor..."
"You overdid it?" I asked. "Just ran out of road?" "No, no," Gilles grinned, "I ran out of lock! This thing" – he pointed to the turboharged Ferrari 126C – "is a shitbox at the best of times, but through that corner it's really terrible – an adventure every time. Go and have a look this afternoon, and you'll see what I mean."
I did. I watched the Cosworth-powered Williams and Brabhams drone through, on rails, and waited.
At its clipping point, at the top of a rise, the Ferrari was already sideways, its driver winding on opposite lock. As it came past me, plunging downhill now, the tail stayed out, further and further, and still Gilles had his foot hard in it. As the car reached the bottom of the dip, the situation looked hopeless, for now it was virtually broadside, full lock on, Villeneuve's head pointing up the road – out of the side of the cockpit...
Somehow, though, the Ferrari did not spin, finally snapping back into line as it grazed the catch fencing, then rocketing away up the hill. For more than 100 yards, I swear it, the car was sideways, at over 130mph. "That's genius," said David Hobbs, watching with me. "Are you seriously telling me he's won two Grands Prix in that?"
Sorry for the long post - but passion took over.
Steve
Edited by skeggysteve on Saturday 1st September 00:57
I'd advise reading Mike Lawrence's Pitpass column of a few weeks ago where he talks about Fangio's 1957 Nurburgring win. This race is usually quoted as Fangio's greatest. He makes the point that legend and myth often have as much to do with greatness than analysis of hard facts - or even the tetimony of witnesses who were actually there.
Having said that, no matter who I think were "great", to me Senna's genius will always be tainted by his lack of "sporting" credentials. The same goes for Schumacher.
On the other hand, Gilles Villeneuve's "greatness" will always be tainted by his inability to think beyond an individual race.
Having said that, no matter who I think were "great", to me Senna's genius will always be tainted by his lack of "sporting" credentials. The same goes for Schumacher.
On the other hand, Gilles Villeneuve's "greatness" will always be tainted by his inability to think beyond an individual race.
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff