Champ Cars cancels final race in Phoenix
Discussion
Anyone else of the opinion this series will be dead within 2-3 years maximum? I think that's now three races that have been canned this year, and I can't see how they can retain the sponsors and TV packages with that sort of uncertainty. I think we're going to end up with unification by default.
frazer guest said:
Excuse my ignorance, but what was the cause of indycars splitting into IRL and ChampCars?
Which one is the better series? What are the main differances in the rules?
Tony george, owner of indianapolis motor speedway and the biggest drawing race (The indy 500) used to own a chunk of the indycar CART series and basically they all fell out, many people feeling george was arrogant and he felt excluded. In the end he left to set up the IRL (Indy racing league). Initially it was a bit rubbish without many of the top teams. In time though chip gannassi and andretti etc migrated over and its become the more successful of the 2 organisations although success is relative and they both lose money, Champ cars is in a worse state than IRL though. IRL also has the trump card of hosting the indy 500 each year, which due to the massive strides made by nascar is the only open wheeled race that main stream america still cares about and has tony georges deep pockets bank rolling it. Which one is the better series? What are the main differances in the rules?
The 2 series have diverged somewhat in recent years with IRL races being run on ovals for the majority of the championship with some street tracks thrown in but CART being exclusively road courses these days. Champ cars is also hampered by having very few anerican drivers in the series and canadians, bourdais and tracy as its most high profile drivers with many others, wilson etc coming from overseas or mexico etc. The rank and file yanks like to cheer their own and therefore dont have quite as much interest in this, whereas IRL at least has some "legacy drivers" competing such as marco andretti to name one.
The Cars in champ car are a spec chassis designed by lola IIRC and use ford turbo charged engines so theres little development in the formula one sense. IRL has only honda engines although theyre NA IIRC. Im not sure if they use a spec chassis.
They either need to merge or one of them has to die soon for there to be any kind of resolution and for open wheeled racing to ever have any chance of competing with the nascar juggernaut in the US ever again.
spectatorsam said:
was it an oval?
No it was a street circuit, Champ Cars don't race on ovals. That said though, IRL was supposed to be Oval circuit only racing but they are on road courses now. Those two series really need to get themselves sorted out and merged as interest seems to be waning.When Bourdais comes to F1, I very much doubt that Mcdonalds will hang around for long and thats the last really big sponsor left in the championship. At one of the fly away races, I think it was Australia? one of the cars was sponsored by a BBQ shop for gawds sake. Apparantely, one team has fallen out because one of its drivers and secured sponsorship from Hustler magazine. Shame, bet the pit lane popsies would have been interesting...
One source in the industry I know says that Legge and Clarke would struggle in touring cars let alone F1...
One source in the industry I know says that Legge and Clarke would struggle in touring cars let alone F1...
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Saturday 1st September 14:49
The irony of the whole situation is that Tony George wanted the IRL to be an all American, all oval formula, but what with the influx of foreign drivers, ex CART teams and recent addition of more road courses, IRL is increasingly resembling CART as was. Champcar in its current form really does seem to be on life support, and if/when it folds then I suppose George will have "won", but what he'll end up with will be the very thing he split from in the first place. Eleven years of slow death and we're left with exactly what we had before the split!
jpf said:
According to Autosport, there were over 100,000 people at Road America for the Champ Car race--that is a greater attendance than some F1 races. That would not seem to indicate being on life support.
The problem is that while attendances like that can support the races, it's TV revenues that support the series and from what I understand Champ Car is pretty much given away.Champ Car is run on an absolute shoestring compared to how it was just a few years ago which is a real shame as I think it has always been a far more attractive series than the IRL in my mind.
egomeister said:
jpf said:
According to Autosport, there were over 100,000 people at Road America for the Champ Car race--that is a greater attendance than some F1 races. That would not seem to indicate being on life support.
The problem is that while attendances like that can support the races, it's TV revenues that support the series and from what I understand Champ Car is pretty much given away.Champ Car is run on an absolute shoestring compared to how it was just a few years ago which is a real shame as I think it has always been a far more attractive series than the IRL in my mind.
hornet said:
The irony of the whole situation is that Tony George wanted the IRL to be an all American, all oval formula, but what with the influx of foreign drivers, ex CART teams and recent addition of more road courses, IRL is increasingly resembling CART as was.
All the top US Drivers like AJ Allmendinger, Sam Hornish Jr and so on now want to be in NASCAR - that's where the money is and the big corporate Fortune 500 Sponsors too.ChampCar and IRL are competing for shrinking TV audiences and smaller sponsors which is why so many 'foreign' drivers can go there and get drives with relatively small budgets from unknown (except in their homeland) sponsors.
McDs may not hang around in ChampCar but as a global brand you might think Mr E would be wanting to see them in his own single seater series that runs in in Europe and Asia
kenthardy said:
ChampCar and IRL are competing for shrinking TV audiences and smaller sponsors which is why so many 'foreign' drivers can go there and get drives with relatively small budgets from unknown (except in their homeland) sponsors.
Champcar does seem to have become a sort of Transatlantic version of GP2/FNippon in recent years. IRL is better than it once was (racing dentists and whatnot), but it's becoming the very thing it was set up to offer an alternative to, so you have to wonder what the point of remaining seperate is any more? I don't like watching CCWS die on its arse any more than I like watching IRL running round empty ovals, so I think everyone needs to swallow their pride and work on a solution before they both become an irrelevance. Can't see it happening sadly.jpf said:
According to Autosport, there were over 100,000 people at Road America for the Champ Car race--that is a greater attendance than some F1 races. That would not seem to indicate being on life support.
I'n not sure 100,000 is a massive crowd in the States. I have just visited my first Nascar Race at Bristol Motor Speedway in Tennessee, a half mile oval. Stadium capacity was about 160,000 and it was full. The Busch race was also probably 80% full.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff