Are there any heroes in motorsport anymore ?
Discussion
Prompted from the thread about Jochen Rindt death - i ended up re visiting that accident on youtube which then lead into a somewhat macabre thread of motorsport accidents
so many of these accidents show fellow drivers risking their lives in an attempt to rescue their fellow stricken
Petterson start line shunt at Monza - James Hunt & Patrick Depailler pull Ronnie Petterson from the burning car
Roger Williamson at Zandvoort - David Purley tries to pull Piers from the car
Nikki Lauda at the 'ring - Guy Edwards pulls Lauda free
etc
These guys were all real heroes. Thankfully racing is far safer now - but i wonder if any of the current stock could match up to drivers of old - they seem to come from a different stock.
Too many tragic deaths - RIP
Depends how you define heroism. Bravery can be measured in a number of ways. Kimi & Villeneuve (Jacques) crop up as names of drivers with 'balls' (witness both at Spa - Jacques through Eau Rouge and Kimi through a blown engine one year) But bravery is different to heroism.
A hero will pull a man from a burning car like the men the OP mentioned. How many of today's drivers would do that? I'd like to think all but I'm not sure TBH....
A hero will pull a man from a burning car like the men the OP mentioned. How many of today's drivers would do that? I'd like to think all but I'm not sure TBH....
Muzzer said:
A hero will pull a man from a burning car like the men the OP mentioned. How many of today's drivers would do that? I'd like to think all but I'm not sure TBH....
I would expect that by the time the driver has seen the accident stopped his car got out and run to the accident that at least 1 marshal would already be there putting out the flames.So I guess to some extent the heros today in the burning car field are the marshals and medics around the circuit.
I'm struggling to think of a case in modern times where a driver would need to dive in, Thankfully, none come to mind. Vehicle safety, and the quantity and quality of marshals has improved enormously.
Having said that, on one of Dario's flips in the last few weeks, Sam Hornish helped turn the car right way up. And in 2004 at the GRM I saw a very nasty roll of a C-Type Jaguar up at Madgwick (no roll hoop, driver trapped in the upturned car). I was most impressed to see (what appeared to be) several spectators run to the marshals' aid, raising the car for the arrival of the medic.
Having said that, on one of Dario's flips in the last few weeks, Sam Hornish helped turn the car right way up. And in 2004 at the GRM I saw a very nasty roll of a C-Type Jaguar up at Madgwick (no roll hoop, driver trapped in the upturned car). I was most impressed to see (what appeared to be) several spectators run to the marshals' aid, raising the car for the arrival of the medic.
Yr right - sam Hornish was right there helping roll the car back over
I was thinking about this a bit more - and perhaps that a F1 driver these days wouldn't stop because of the commercial pressure not to throw away a race position(s)
anyway - it was more a salute to the heroes of old - watching the Piers Courage crash and seeing the b/w photo of his g/f is really still very emotional
HiRich said:
I'm struggling to think of a case in modern times where a driver would need to dive in, Thankfully, none come to mind. Vehicle safety, and the quantity and quality of marshals has improved enormously.
Having said that, on one of Dario's flips in the last few weeks, Sam Hornish helped turn the car right way up. And in 2004 at the GRM I saw a very nasty roll of a C-Type Jaguar up at Madgwick (no roll hoop, driver trapped in the upturned car). I was most impressed to see (what appeared to be) several spectators run to the marshals' aid, raising the car for the arrival of the medic.
The most recent was James Winslow, last year, who was awarded for bravery!!!Having said that, on one of Dario's flips in the last few weeks, Sam Hornish helped turn the car right way up. And in 2004 at the GRM I saw a very nasty roll of a C-Type Jaguar up at Madgwick (no roll hoop, driver trapped in the upturned car). I was most impressed to see (what appeared to be) several spectators run to the marshals' aid, raising the car for the arrival of the medic.
With the whole stopping and helping out situation - so many crashes these days are survivable thanks to advances in technology that I think there's the assumption that the driver will be OK (unless fire is involved) leading to less of a compulsion for other drivers to help out should everything go wrong.
Take Kubica in Canada for example. First time in many many seasons where I've seen a crash and thought 'Christ, he'll be lucky to get out of that' and he ended up walking off with a headache.
Take Kubica in Canada for example. First time in many many seasons where I've seen a crash and thought 'Christ, he'll be lucky to get out of that' and he ended up walking off with a headache.
There's also a very often seen clip of a Caterham race at Brands Hatch, one car crashes and ends up in the middle of the circuit at Paddock HIll and gets hit from behind, ruptures the fuel tank the it goes up in flames, a fellow driver from another car helps the other get out.
F1 cars don't tend to go up in flames anymore (pit refuelling excepted) so most accidents are impact based and I think the other drivers know there is not much they can do so let the specially trained emergency teams get the drivers out. Remember in the bad old days mentioned in the OP the safety teams didn't wear fire protective clothing, the drivers did so they had a better chance of helping, plus they didn't have any proper training to the equivalent standards of today.
F1 cars don't tend to go up in flames anymore (pit refuelling excepted) so most accidents are impact based and I think the other drivers know there is not much they can do so let the specially trained emergency teams get the drivers out. Remember in the bad old days mentioned in the OP the safety teams didn't wear fire protective clothing, the drivers did so they had a better chance of helping, plus they didn't have any proper training to the equivalent standards of today.
That was the guy in the Asian F3 race ?
ginettajoe said:
HiRich said:
I'm struggling to think of a case in modern times where a driver would need to dive in, Thankfully, none come to mind. Vehicle safety, and the quantity and quality of marshals has improved enormously.
Having said that, on one of Dario's flips in the last few weeks, Sam Hornish helped turn the car right way up. And in 2004 at the GRM I saw a very nasty roll of a C-Type Jaguar up at Madgwick (no roll hoop, driver trapped in the upturned car). I was most impressed to see (what appeared to be) several spectators run to the marshals' aid, raising the car for the arrival of the medic.
The most recent was James Winslow, last year, who was awarded for bravery!!!Having said that, on one of Dario's flips in the last few weeks, Sam Hornish helped turn the car right way up. And in 2004 at the GRM I saw a very nasty roll of a C-Type Jaguar up at Madgwick (no roll hoop, driver trapped in the upturned car). I was most impressed to see (what appeared to be) several spectators run to the marshals' aid, raising the car for the arrival of the medic.
woof said:
That was the guy in the Asian F3 race ?
Yes it was, he was awarded both over there, as well as over here!!ginettajoe said:
HiRich said:
I'm struggling to think of a case in modern times where a driver would need to dive in, Thankfully, none come to mind. Vehicle safety, and the quantity and quality of marshals has improved enormously.
Having said that, on one of Dario's flips in the last few weeks, Sam Hornish helped turn the car right way up. And in 2004 at the GRM I saw a very nasty roll of a C-Type Jaguar up at Madgwick (no roll hoop, driver trapped in the upturned car). I was most impressed to see (what appeared to be) several spectators run to the marshals' aid, raising the car for the arrival of the medic.
The most recent was James Winslow, last year, who was awarded for bravery!!!Having said that, on one of Dario's flips in the last few weeks, Sam Hornish helped turn the car right way up. And in 2004 at the GRM I saw a very nasty roll of a C-Type Jaguar up at Madgwick (no roll hoop, driver trapped in the upturned car). I was most impressed to see (what appeared to be) several spectators run to the marshals' aid, raising the car for the arrival of the medic.
Last time I remember this happening in F1 was when Luciano Burti and Eddie Irvine had a minor coming together at a wet Spa, consequence was that Irvine span and retired just up the road from where Burti had just had a head on crash with the tyre barriers that registered in excess of 140G to stop. The said barrier had ridden up and over Burti's Prost(IIRC) and he was trapped. Irvine ran down from his Jaguar and tried to help Burti, then came the tractor and moved the tyres in seconds.
forgot about that one
good on Irv
that was a huge crash - very, very lucky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS46bStmgnw
megy said:
Last time I remember this happening in F1 was when Luciano Burti and Eddie Irvine had a minor coming together at a wet Spa, consequence was that Irvine span and retired just up the road from where Burti had just had a head on crash with the tyre barriers that registered in excess of 140G to stop. The said barrier had ridden up and over Burti's Prost(IIRC) and he was trapped. Irvine ran down from his Jaguar and tried to help Burti, then came the tractor and moved the tyres in seconds.
woof said:
forgot about that one
good on Irv
that was a huge crash - very, very lucky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS46bStmgnw
Never seen the extensive coverage that is on you tube, I certainly didnt remember seeing Irvine trying to pull the car out by the rear wing, and refusing to get in the people carrier the way he did. good on Irv
that was a huge crash - very, very lucky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS46bStmgnw
megy said:
Last time I remember this happening in F1 was when Luciano Burti and Eddie Irvine had a minor coming together at a wet Spa, consequence was that Irvine span and retired just up the road from where Burti had just had a head on crash with the tyre barriers that registered in excess of 140G to stop. The said barrier had ridden up and over Burti's Prost(IIRC) and he was trapped. Irvine ran down from his Jaguar and tried to help Burti, then came the tractor and moved the tyres in seconds.
FourWheelDrift said:
There's also a very often seen clip of a Caterham race at Brands Hatch, one car crashes and ends up in the middle of the circuit at Paddock HIll and gets hit from behind, ruptures the fuel tank the it goes up in flames, a fellow driver from another car helps the other get out.
F1 cars don't tend to go up in flames anymore (pit refuelling excepted) so most accidents are impact based and I think the other drivers know there is not much they can do so let the specially trained emergency teams get the drivers out. Remember in the bad old days mentioned in the OP the safety teams didn't wear fire protective clothing, the drivers did so they had a better chance of helping, plus they didn't have any proper training to the equivalent standards of today.
Tho, the one thing that is unnearving me at the moment is the F1 circus moving to the new countries... where there isnt much motorsport, and you dont get the same amount of experianced marshals there. Monaco is differant in that the marshals there are trained specifically for that one race... F1 cars don't tend to go up in flames anymore (pit refuelling excepted) so most accidents are impact based and I think the other drivers know there is not much they can do so let the specially trained emergency teams get the drivers out. Remember in the bad old days mentioned in the OP the safety teams didn't wear fire protective clothing, the drivers did so they had a better chance of helping, plus they didn't have any proper training to the equivalent standards of today.
yet how many races will the majority of the marshals have done at the China GP for example? or Dubia? thankfully many marshals from GB, Germany, France, USA and many others will travel around the world to marshal these races and lend their experiance.
last thing we want is a repeat of Tetsuya Ota's crash in Fuji in 1998
lord summerisle said:
last thing we want is a repeat of Tetsuya Ota's crash in Fuji in 1998
horrific accident - amazing that he survived and is still racingbut wasn't that down to the circuit not having a medical team - rather than badly trained marshals
It was muted that poor marshalling contributed to Daijiro Kato's death (MotoGP Japan) but can't remember the full details
I was working at the Dubai 24hr in 2005 when the 2 clios got together and a guy who later drove for us walked into a flaming clio to pull the unconcious guy out whilst the inexperienced marshalls watched in absolute fear.
Not something i ever want to see again, i shook the guys hand the year after when he drove for us at the Ring 24hr.
The car that was hit (not the one that caught fire)
Not something i ever want to see again, i shook the guys hand the year after when he drove for us at the Ring 24hr.
The car that was hit (not the one that caught fire)
Edited by Regional on Wednesday 5th September 16:10
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