The McLaren thing just keeps on rolling?

[ali_kat]

Strangely Brown said:

shoestring7 said:

LocoBlade said:

npope said:

McCheater fans will never agree that they cheated how ever much proof come out. What will be even better they will lose the No. 1 on there cars next year when Alonso takes it with him.

Im a Mclaren fan and yep I'll admit they did get caught and I do agree with the verdict (if not the fine), but surely you aren't naive enough to believe that this is the only time this kind of thing has happened, and that Ferrari (or any other F1 team) have never received illegally obtained technical information about another team's car, or parts of it?

How when Brawn and Schumacher left a winning Bennetton team to arrive at a Ferrari team that hadn't won anything for years. What do you think they bought with them - their favourite coffee mugs?

There is rather large difference between personnel moving teams and taking what is in their heads with them and current employees within teams passing and receiving information from current rivals. C'mon people, at least try to think before you type?

Agreed.

[LocoBlade]

Yep, as long as its only stuff in their head and not swathes of photocopies / digital media they've smuggled out before announching their resignation.

[LongQ]

LocoBlade said:

Yep, as long as its only stuff in their head and not swathes of photocopies / digital media they've smuggled out before announching their resignation.

Knowledge in the head is probably good enough since the technology moves quickly enough that the engineering details probably don't much matter. It is the experience to set a path and understand enough to interpret what is going on that counts in that respect. An ability to put observation to work and deduce effective results makes up the rest. Over the course of a season the potential for radical change is limited.

To support this suggestion I put forward for your consideration the Honda team.

Even if you are a design god, like, maybe, Adrian Newey, it can be difficult to simply move that knowledge with you it seems.

Way back in time when F1 and racing car design in general started to become a more professionally focused business in depth than it had previously been many were of the opinion that most designers has one good car in them and would stultify after that. Some, if they were lucky, might deliver 2 stand-out creations. Or one great and a couple of acceptables.

Colin Chapman was something of an exception, though not infallible and not without cutting a few corners from time to time is has been reported. There were not too many others, though perhaps some shone by having little smart competition in their day or by enjoying some other technical superiority or better reliability exclusively for a season.

Small changes could be made quite quickly but major changes were usually not possible for lack of time, resources and budget, even in the best funded teams. Ideas were hardly well hidden (though not given away of course) and most could be copied readily and adapted to other chassis if the competition chose to do so.

On the other hand there were drawings but no operational manuals to filch it one moved allegiances. Presumably the FIA requires the manuals so they can check legality? If there were no manuals such alleged 'spy' cases would be rarer even than they seem likely to be. Therefore can I suggest the FIA itself is bringing the 'sport' into disrepute?

[coetzeeh]

ali_kat said:

Strangely Brown said:

shoestring7 said:

LocoBlade said:

npope said:

McCheater fans will never agree that they cheated how ever much proof come out. What will be even better they will lose the No. 1 on there cars next year when Alonso takes it with him.

Im a Mclaren fan and yep I'll admit they did get caught and I do agree with the verdict (if not the fine), but surely you aren't naive enough to believe that this is the only time this kind of thing has happened, and that Ferrari (or any other F1 team) have never received illegally obtained technical information about another team's car, or parts of it?

How when Brawn and Schumacher left a winning Bennetton team to arrive at a Ferrari team that hadn't won anything for years. What do you think they bought with them - their favourite coffee mugs?

There is rather large difference between personnel moving teams and taking what is in their heads with them and current employees within teams passing and receiving information from current rivals. C'mon people, at least try to think before you type?

Agreed.

Spot on - Mclaren employees actively pursued Stepney for months on end to obtain information.

[Fidgits]

The one thing that makes me chuckle through this whole thread is the Ferrari fanboys screaming, McLaren cheated, they should be punished, this and that...

Yet, mention the flexible floor - where Ferrari cheated... and its 'well, they bent the rules to gain a competitive advantage, thats okay'.


And I cant help but wonder - with this whole incident - surely the information didn't just flow in one direction? Surely Ferrari would've been recieving McLaren info as well? As Mosely said, 300 SMS's, bi-directional, yet Ferrari didn't even have to appear in front of the FIA to say they didn't recieve anything.

odd.

You'd think there was a bias if you didn't know better!

[rubystone]

coetzeeh said:

Spot on - Mclaren employees actively pursued Stepney for months on end to obtain information.

Really? Now that is interesting. Do you think that's why Stepney handed over the dossier?...I'd get fed up with being barraged by 300 plus calls/texts from McLaren too. Mind you, I'd be a bit irritated that it'd be all take and no give though.

[Snoggledog]

I was wondering why McLaren were so slow in comparison to normal over the weekends racing. Then I realised that they must have taken off the bits that they nicked from Ferrari.

Flame retardent suit at the ready.

[Fidgits]

Fidgits said:

The one thing that makes me chuckle through this whole thread is the Ferrari fanboys screaming, McLaren cheated, they should be punished, this and that...

Yet, mention the flexible floor - where Ferrari cheated... and its 'well, they bent the rules to gain a competitive advantage, thats okay'.

[ELAN+2]

Snoggledog said:

I was wondering why McLaren were so slow in comparison to normal over the weekends racing. Then I realised that they must have taken off the bits that they nicked from Ferrari.

Flame retardent suit at the ready.

The only identical items on the Mclaren are the tyres and last years vodaphone stickers......perhaps JT has got the hump over having to pay for his phone calls

[jon-]

Fidgits said:

Fidgits said:

The one thing that makes me chuckle through this whole thread is the Ferrari fanboys screaming, McLaren cheated, they should be punished, this and that...

Yet, mention the flexible floor - where Ferrari cheated... and its 'well, they bent the rules to gain a competitive advantage, thats okay'.

Why are you laughing at yourself?

Ferrari used a grey area in the rules to gain advantage, somebody call the internet police. Teams do this all year, every year, or have you forgotten about McLarens 3rd pedal?

[Fidgits]

jon- said:

Fidgits said:

Fidgits said:

The one thing that makes me chuckle through this whole thread is the Ferrari fanboys screaming, McLaren cheated, they should be punished, this and that...

Yet, mention the flexible floor - where Ferrari cheated... and its 'well, they bent the rules to gain a competitive advantage, thats okay'.

Why are you laughing at yourself?

Ferrari used a grey area in the rules to gain advantage, somebody call the internet police. Teams do this all year, every year, or have you forgotten about McLarens 3rd pedal?

I thought an earlier statment was an appropriate response to a later post - so quoted

and thanks for confirming my point

[jon-]

I don't see how I confirmed your point. I'm in favour of Alonso this season and don't care for the French midget or Montezemolo as much as the next man, however I can logically see the difference between trying to bend the rules and having blueprints to your main rivals (faster) car.