so what would you do with Alonso if you were Ron
Discussion
boony said:
C’mon, give Alonso a break. Before the FIA released the info, everyone was whining about Ferrari. Saying they were making it all up to try and get their own way. It turned out they were right all along.
Now it’s Alonso is getting all the grief. What about the engineers who used all the ill-gotten info? What’s going to happen to them?
I don’t believe for 1 second that Ron didn’t know what was going on. He knew, and sanctioned the use of the info – like everyone who goes around committing crimes; he didn’t think he’d get caught. Now it’s all come out he’s feeding more lies to the press to try and save his integrity. It’s a joke. Personally, I hope this is the beginning of the end for Ron and his team. F1 will be a better place without the bunch of cheating t
ts.
I am sure that this info was used by the engineering team at McLaren - no way that a couple of drivers would be able to make sense of settings, nor have the power to drive development direction on their own. It just doesn't add up.Now it’s Alonso is getting all the grief. What about the engineers who used all the ill-gotten info? What’s going to happen to them?
I don’t believe for 1 second that Ron didn’t know what was going on. He knew, and sanctioned the use of the info – like everyone who goes around committing crimes; he didn’t think he’d get caught. Now it’s all come out he’s feeding more lies to the press to try and save his integrity. It’s a joke. Personally, I hope this is the beginning of the end for Ron and his team. F1 will be a better place without the bunch of cheating t
ts.I'd have to trust RD's assurances that he wasn't aware of this until Alonso told him and I am sure even then he was just calling what he believed to be Alonso's bluff, hence his comments to Mosley.
Fi is now for geeks not race fans!!
I for one am completely pissed with the whole situation.
I keep naively expecting Formula 1 to emulate its zenith of the Late seventies and early eighties when drivers were men who risked their lives on the track and respected their fellow drivers and team principals on the whole.
I also long for the FIA to and Mosley in particular to stop shifting the goalposts in Ferraris favour.
Elated when Schuey Retired just as much as Blair both being people who won at the cost of honour or integrity..... and then Alonso goes and fills the void!!!
Lets just suppose that the whole of McClaren knew about the info Stepney Gave and that they used the info to improve their car.
Where is the crime in that or am I missing something??
The person at fault in all this is Stepney . . .What was he thinking of?
Guess he didn't forsee Pedro and Fernando acting like little kids, but then as highly privileged children why should they grow up.
As for F1 . . .
It takes itself far too seriously if it really thinks it is the premier race series in the world.
I just watched the Thruxton round of British F3 and due to the virtual removal of downforce for the high speed curcuit with few corners the racing was the closest I have ever seen in an open wheel race.
I certainly don't go out of my way to make sure I watch an F1 race anymore , Not in the Way I used to sit and watch 2 mentally exhausting edge of the seat hours in the Mansell era.
Now I watch the first corner . . (or in the case of this years spa the first three) and then go and do something more interesting.
Oh and I am sure Alonso's data will show he turned into Hamilton three times while approaching and rounding the first hairpin at Spa.
If F1 really wants me to take interest again then it needs to.
1. Remove the majority of the cars aero or give a max downforce value
2. Use cicuits with real fans (not desert outposts that allow Cigarette advertising)
3. Sack Mosley
4. Allow teams to sack or punish drivers
5. One set of tyres per race
6. Engines that will cover a race distance on one tank
7. If that would only last an hour then have two seperate races per meet
It doesn't really bother me to be honest as even if F1 does dissapear up its own ass I will still be able to watch BTCC , Clios , Carreras , GT's and club racing and also contimue to race my kart.
The premier race series in my view? DTM
Alonsos has the integrity of a snake oil salesman.
To think he knew and used the inside info from Stepney knowing it was against the silly rules, then using it to attempt to Blackmail Ron, Then dropping Ron in the Crappers once He knew he could reveal it without punishment.
To be honest I would be surprised any team would ever sign him up now knowing just what a brat he is.
I for one am completely pissed with the whole situation.
I keep naively expecting Formula 1 to emulate its zenith of the Late seventies and early eighties when drivers were men who risked their lives on the track and respected their fellow drivers and team principals on the whole.
I also long for the FIA to and Mosley in particular to stop shifting the goalposts in Ferraris favour.
Elated when Schuey Retired just as much as Blair both being people who won at the cost of honour or integrity..... and then Alonso goes and fills the void!!!
Lets just suppose that the whole of McClaren knew about the info Stepney Gave and that they used the info to improve their car.
Where is the crime in that or am I missing something??
The person at fault in all this is Stepney . . .What was he thinking of?
Guess he didn't forsee Pedro and Fernando acting like little kids, but then as highly privileged children why should they grow up.
As for F1 . . .
It takes itself far too seriously if it really thinks it is the premier race series in the world.
I just watched the Thruxton round of British F3 and due to the virtual removal of downforce for the high speed curcuit with few corners the racing was the closest I have ever seen in an open wheel race.
I certainly don't go out of my way to make sure I watch an F1 race anymore , Not in the Way I used to sit and watch 2 mentally exhausting edge of the seat hours in the Mansell era.
Now I watch the first corner . . (or in the case of this years spa the first three) and then go and do something more interesting.
Oh and I am sure Alonso's data will show he turned into Hamilton three times while approaching and rounding the first hairpin at Spa.
If F1 really wants me to take interest again then it needs to.
1. Remove the majority of the cars aero or give a max downforce value
2. Use cicuits with real fans (not desert outposts that allow Cigarette advertising)
3. Sack Mosley
4. Allow teams to sack or punish drivers
5. One set of tyres per race
6. Engines that will cover a race distance on one tank
7. If that would only last an hour then have two seperate races per meet
It doesn't really bother me to be honest as even if F1 does dissapear up its own ass I will still be able to watch BTCC , Clios , Carreras , GT's and club racing and also contimue to race my kart.
The premier race series in my view? DTM
Alonsos has the integrity of a snake oil salesman.
To think he knew and used the inside info from Stepney knowing it was against the silly rules, then using it to attempt to Blackmail Ron, Then dropping Ron in the Crappers once He knew he could reveal it without punishment.
To be honest I would be surprised any team would ever sign him up now knowing just what a brat he is.
Oh and if you think that Alonso must definately be kept in F1 because he is a great driver. . .
Sadly thats not true either.
1. Most drivers in F1 are in the cockpit because they bring in Sponsorship money.
2. All F1 drivers on the grid Including Kimi and Alonso and Lewis have been beaten by other drivers on their way to F1. Drivers who didn't have the backing to make F1 but had more than enough skill.
Sadly thats not true either.
1. Most drivers in F1 are in the cockpit because they bring in Sponsorship money.
2. All F1 drivers on the grid Including Kimi and Alonso and Lewis have been beaten by other drivers on their way to F1. Drivers who didn't have the backing to make F1 but had more than enough skill.
mark69sheer said:
Oh and if you think that Alonso must definately be kept in F1 because he is a great driver. . .
Sadly thats not true either.
1. Most drivers in F1 are in the cockpit because they bring in Sponsorship money.
2. All F1 drivers on the grid Including Kimi and Alonso and Lewis have been beaten by other drivers on their way to F1. Drivers who didn't have the backing to make F1 but had more than enough skill.
FWIW, on German tv Sunday, H-J Stuck said that he thought Alonso would now be unemployable in F1.Sadly thats not true either.
1. Most drivers in F1 are in the cockpit because they bring in Sponsorship money.
2. All F1 drivers on the grid Including Kimi and Alonso and Lewis have been beaten by other drivers on their way to F1. Drivers who didn't have the backing to make F1 but had more than enough skill.
I myself find that hard to believe. Briatore, for example, would re-sign him in a heartbeat. Old Flav is not exactly known for his unswerving commitment to putting principle before self-interest.
Then again, Stuck knows just a bit more about F1 than I do, so maybe he's right.
flemke said:
mark69sheer said:
Oh and if you think that Alonso must definately be kept in F1 because he is a great driver. . .
Sadly thats not true either.
1. Most drivers in F1 are in the cockpit because they bring in Sponsorship money.
2. All F1 drivers on the grid Including Kimi and Alonso and Lewis have been beaten by other drivers on their way to F1. Drivers who didn't have the backing to make F1 but had more than enough skill.
FWIW, on German tv Sunday, H-J Stuck said that he thought Alonso would now be unemployable in F1.Sadly thats not true either.
1. Most drivers in F1 are in the cockpit because they bring in Sponsorship money.
2. All F1 drivers on the grid Including Kimi and Alonso and Lewis have been beaten by other drivers on their way to F1. Drivers who didn't have the backing to make F1 but had more than enough skill.
I myself find that hard to believe. Briatore, for example, would re-sign him in a heartbeat. Old Flav is not exactly known for his unswerving commitment to putting principle before self-interest.
Then again, Stuck knows just a bit more about F1 than I do, so maybe he's right.
If Alonso was running 8th in the championship, he would most likely be a test driver for Spyker by now. But he's not, hes fighting for first.
Who in thier right mind would sack him? So, youre out of the constructors c'ship, but you have two drivers in contention for the drivers c'ship. You sack one for gros misconduct and 2 races later, the other crashes and cant finish the season. Hmm....
Come on people, we must be knowledgeable in here to know its money that talks and McLaren needs that more than ever for next year, hence Alonso will stay.
Who in thier right mind would sack him? So, youre out of the constructors c'ship, but you have two drivers in contention for the drivers c'ship. You sack one for gros misconduct and 2 races later, the other crashes and cant finish the season. Hmm....
Come on people, we must be knowledgeable in here to know its money that talks and McLaren needs that more than ever for next year, hence Alonso will stay.
308mate said:
Come on people, we must be knowledgeable in here to know its money that talks and McLaren needs that more than ever for next year, hence Alonso will stay.
If you were to follow that logic, that McLaren needs money more than ever, then could you not as easily argue that they would try to sell his contract to the highest bidder?By doing that, they would be rid of all the stress that he helped to cause, they would still have one of the three best drivers, and, in addition to getting a big cheque for his transfer, they would be saving most of his salary.
I'm not suggesting that that will happen, because I think that if Alonso wins the title this year he'll retire, but it would have more immediate financial benefit to McLaren (assuming that their deals with Spanish sponsors are multi-year).
flemke said:
because I think that if Alonso wins the title this year he'll retire
Of all the internet speculation in recent weeks that is the first time I've heard anyone suggest that!I can't see that happening at all myself - if he wins he'll want to try and prove he can beat Hamilton and McLaren again in a different car - and if he loses he'll want to prove he can beat Hamilton and McLaren in a different car too!!!
He might be out of a seat next year on sabbatical if contracts get messy, but I think he will be racing in 2009 whatever happens at the end of 2007. Can't see him in a McLaren in 2008 unless Hamilton goes instead.
sosidge said:
flemke said:
because I think that if Alonso wins the title this year he'll retire
Of all the internet speculation in recent weeks that is the first time I've heard anyone suggest that!I can't see that happening at all myself - if he wins he'll want to try and prove he can beat Hamilton and McLaren again in a different car - and if he loses he'll want to prove he can beat Hamilton and McLaren in a different car too!!!
He might be out of a seat next year on sabbatical if contracts get messy, but I think he will be racing in 2009 whatever happens at the end of 2007. Can't see him in a McLaren in 2008 unless Hamilton goes instead.
I'd settle for twice.
D
davidd said:
sosidge said:
flemke said:
because I think that if Alonso wins the title this year he'll retire
Of all the internet speculation in recent weeks that is the first time I've heard anyone suggest that!I can't see that happening at all myself - if he wins he'll want to try and prove he can beat Hamilton and McLaren again in a different car - and if he loses he'll want to prove he can beat Hamilton and McLaren in a different car too!!!
He might be out of a seat next year on sabbatical if contracts get messy, but I think he will be racing in 2009 whatever happens at the end of 2007. Can't see him in a McLaren in 2008 unless Hamilton goes instead.
I'd settle for twice.
D
And as a competitor, if you had three titles at age 26, surely you'd be going for Schumachers record? You have a couple of years head start on him.
Personally Ive never liked Alonso. And this is the icing on the cake for me. England is F1's home and we should be proud of that and push forward all british teams and drivers.
If i was RD I would have clipped Alonso round the ear, Let him finish the season off and then sell him back to Renault to replace Fisichella.
2008 Mclaren would have Hamilton partnered by Piquet Junior for me. Davidson i really rate as a driver but Im unsure he is a championship contender.
Lets hope Alonso gets a few punctures or someone forgets to do his wheel nut up in the next few races and the rookie can bring the title back to the UK!
If i was RD I would have clipped Alonso round the ear, Let him finish the season off and then sell him back to Renault to replace Fisichella.
2008 Mclaren would have Hamilton partnered by Piquet Junior for me. Davidson i really rate as a driver but Im unsure he is a championship contender.
Lets hope Alonso gets a few punctures or someone forgets to do his wheel nut up in the next few races and the rookie can bring the title back to the UK!
foreright said:
Surely Alonso's contract would have a clause mentioning instant dismissal for gross misconduct. Attempting to blackmail your boss and getting caught cheating could reasonably be called gross misconduct couldn't they?
If I were RD then Alonso's feet wouldn't have touched the floor on the way out.
Spot on.If I were RD then Alonso's feet wouldn't have touched the floor on the way out.
Ron should sack the cheating little cvnt.
flemke said:
308mate said:
Come on people, we must be knowledgeable in here to know its money that talks and McLaren needs that more than ever for next year, hence Alonso will stay.
If you were to follow that logic, that McLaren needs money more than ever, then could you not as easily argue that they would try to sell his contract to the highest bidder?By doing that, they would be rid of all the stress that he helped to cause, they would still have one of the three best drivers, and, in addition to getting a big cheque for his transfer, they would be saving most of his salary.
Alonso's wages or contract would not outweigh the loss in sponsorship $ surely?
Vesuvius 996 said:
foreright said:
Surely Alonso's contract would have a clause mentioning instant dismissal for gross misconduct. Attempting to blackmail your boss and getting caught cheating could reasonably be called gross misconduct couldn't they?
If I were RD then Alonso's feet wouldn't have touched the floor on the way out.
Spot on.If I were RD then Alonso's feet wouldn't have touched the floor on the way out.
Ron should sack the cheating little cvnt.
if i were ron i'd keep alonso - ok so things might be a little strained in the team but fa would still want to win races - and he will. he's not going to screw around to hurt mcl if it means hurting himself.
if you get rid, the problem is who to replace him with? there's no-one that comes close really
if you get rid, the problem is who to replace him with? there's no-one that comes close really
This could be the thing that either makes or breaks the supposed split in F1.
If youre Ronny, youd be rightly pissed off at not only getting nailed for actions over which you had no control (a debatebale point I think), but being under the threat of being nailed even more for sacking the scrotes who landed you in hot water.
So you have a Jerry McGuire moment and think "Sod this, me and the boys are off. We'll have our properley governed series and MM can stick it. :smug grin:"
Problem is, the whole thing started because of using informatin from the very team that you would absolutely NEED to make an effective split. And now you can cut the air with a knife, theyre not exactly going to be first to voulenteer to join your party. With the audiences Ferarri attracts and the merchandise etc, it would now be pretty hard to make any sort of viable alternative without their presence.
And so the realisation dawns on RD that now, at the time when he'd most like to stick two fingers up at the estblishment and beat his own path with some like-minded manufacturers, he's more helpless than ever.
Could this be why the FIA were so quick to come to Ferarri's aid? They know which side their bread is buttered.
Thoughts?
If youre Ronny, youd be rightly pissed off at not only getting nailed for actions over which you had no control (a debatebale point I think), but being under the threat of being nailed even more for sacking the scrotes who landed you in hot water.
So you have a Jerry McGuire moment and think "Sod this, me and the boys are off. We'll have our properley governed series and MM can stick it. :smug grin:"
Problem is, the whole thing started because of using informatin from the very team that you would absolutely NEED to make an effective split. And now you can cut the air with a knife, theyre not exactly going to be first to voulenteer to join your party. With the audiences Ferarri attracts and the merchandise etc, it would now be pretty hard to make any sort of viable alternative without their presence.
And so the realisation dawns on RD that now, at the time when he'd most like to stick two fingers up at the estblishment and beat his own path with some like-minded manufacturers, he's more helpless than ever.
Could this be why the FIA were so quick to come to Ferarri's aid? They know which side their bread is buttered.
Thoughts?
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