The facts...McLaren/Ferrrari/FIA
Discussion
http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/17844641__W...
So do you think that McLaren will struggle to enter the 2008 championship? After all how does one prove that ideas were yours alone if they are similar to anything Ferrari has?
So do you think that McLaren will struggle to enter the 2008 championship? After all how does one prove that ideas were yours alone if they are similar to anything Ferrari has?
Edited by 2priestsferrari on Tuesday 18th September 12:24
why mclaren would bother with 2008 is beyond me, they should walk away from the sport and go to ALMS/ELMS or something else more enjoyable than F1. they might not "make" as much money but i think the mclaren boys are all racers at heart and are more interested in the technology of race cars in general than the politics of f1. if they kept the mercedes support they could have a le mans winner in 2009 with little trouble at all.
2priestsferrari said:
jesusbuiltmycar said:
Does this mean that Ferrari get a vey good look at the 2008 Mclaren without and repercussions if they happen to 'borrow' some good ideas?
No it means the FIA do...The after the fly aways at the start introduce the ‘B’ Spec car…
They have complied with the letter of the ruling after all and as we all know it isn’t exactly unusual to up-date the old and introduce a new car a few races in.
jesusbuiltmycar said:
2priestsferrari said:
jesusbuiltmycar said:
Does this mean that Ferrari get a vey good look at the 2008 Mclaren without and repercussions if they happen to 'borrow' some good ideas?
No it means the FIA do...
jesusbuiltmycar said:
2priestsferrari said:
jesusbuiltmycar said:
Does this mean that Ferrari get a vey good look at the 2008 Mclaren without and repercussions if they happen to 'borrow' some good ideas?
No it means the FIA do...
2priestsferrari said:
Whilst I think it is the current fashion to bash Ferrari, FIA and Alonso right now - what McLaren did was a disgrace and there is no way to deal with them any differently.
Oh come off it , as soon as a part is fitted on a car in the pit lane they are all photoing it furiously and trying to work out what it does ,its part of the game Marki said:
2priestsferrari said:
Whilst I think it is the current fashion to bash Ferrari, FIA and Alonso right now - what McLaren did was a disgrace and there is no way to deal with them any differently.
Oh come off it , as soon as a part is fitted on a car in the pit lane they are all photoing it furiously and trying to work out what it does ,its part of the game If you can't see that then I'm not going to try and make you. Its like trying to convince me that the sky is green..
2priestsferrari said:
Whilst I think it is the current fashion to bash Ferrari, FIA and Alonso right now - what McLaren did was a disgrace and there is no way to deal with them any differently.
Let’s be fair here. It would appear that what 3 employees of Maclaren did is what has brought us to this point. I would suggest that PdelaR and Mr C were think as thieves with this over the last year or so. They were the only two who knew about this as they knew that if RD found out they would be out on their arses. Keep it QT and just make knowing nods and comments in the right times and places to throw the others off the scent and they will look like one of the best designers and test drivers in the paddock.
PdelaR had his nose put about 8foot out of joint when Our Lewis ™ got the nod ahead of him. Best way to prove RD made the wrong choice was to share this source, with Mr C’s knowledge, (who’s views on the driver selection are unknown to me) with his fellow countryman. Alonso gains an edge on Our Lewis ™ and if Our Lewis ™ had failed to shine who do you think would be next in line to the seat mid season?
That RD went to the FIA after the original hearing with the information that hung them only goes to show in even more relief his immense integrity IMO.
That he has ended up stuck with Alonso is a shame to say the least. In my company all 3 would have had their P45’s on the desk before the sun had set.
Edited by rude-boy on Tuesday 18th September 13:44
2priestsferrari said:
The facts...
2priestsferrari said:
what McLaren did was a disgrace and there is no way to deal with them any differently.
If you actually read points 8.4 and 8.5 of that document, you will see how incomprehensibly unfair the whole thing was.Essentially they are saying "We have no evidence against McLaren, but we don't actually need any evidence. In fact, McLaren don't even need to have done anything wrong at all, so as we are above the law, we can do what we like."
rude-boy said:
2priestsferrari said:
Whilst I think it is the current fashion to bash Ferrari, FIA and Alonso right now - what McLaren did was a disgrace and there is no way to deal with them any differently.
Let’s be fair here. What it would appear 3 employees of Maclaren did is what has brought us to this point. I would suggest that PdelaR and Mr C were think as thieves with this over the last year or so. They were the only two who knew about this as they knew that if RD found out they would be out on their arses. Keep it QT and just make knowing nods and comments in the right times and places to throw the others off the scent and they will look like one of the best designers and test drivers in the paddock.
PdelaR had his nose put about 8foot out of joint when Our Lewis ™ got the nod ahead of him. Best way to prove RD made the wrong choice was to share this source, with Mr C’s knowledge, (who’s views on the driver selection are unknown to me) with his fellow countryman. Alonso gains an edge on Our Lewis ™ and if Our Lewis ™ had failed to shine who do you think would be next in line to the seat mid season?
That RD went to the FIA after the original hearing with the information that hung them only goes to show in even more relief his immense integrity IMO.
That he has ended up stuck with Alonso is a shame to say the least. In my company all 3 would have had their P45’s on the desk before the sun had set.
Sadly McLaren had to be held to account. This has nothing to do with the drivers but with the engineering side of McLaren and sadly they got caught.
The drivers title is a 3-way fight between Kimi, Lewis and Alonso. Now I don't care who wins but lets hope its fair and the best guy wins. What is amazing is that Alonso moves and Lewis loses out in Spa everyone moans foul play. But after Lewis's start in Monza shows he has no loyalities to anyone.
jacobyte said:
2priestsferrari said:
The facts...
2priestsferrari said:
what McLaren did was a disgrace and there is no way to deal with them any differently.
If you actually read points 8.4 and 8.5 of that document, you will see how incomprehensibly unfair the whole thing was.Essentially they are saying "We have no evidence against McLaren, but we don't actually need any evidence. In fact, McLaren don't even need to have done anything wrong at all, so as we are above the law, we can do what we like."
What the FIA are saying is that they don't need to prove that (as example) McLaren used a Ferrari front wing design and proved a performance advantage - because what the FIA are saying is that merely knowing and trying something which perhaps they can use in the design of there own stuff or perhaps it didn't work so that short cuts a process is enough. Plus with the simulator at McLaren being very accurate who knows what they have tried??
Just what I was thinking,(not the 2priestsferrari posts) they have no evidence that there are any parts used, tested or anything on the 2007 McLaren Car, they have found McLaren guilty, when it appears that it was one designer, and two drivers that shared this information, then kept it all quiet.
The judgement should have been to ban FA and RDLR from their super licence and ban the deisgner from working in F1 or motorsport at all. McLaren as a company appear to have done no wrong as far as I can see, just three (in Mclaren) and one (in Ferrari) that have talked about things, but never put them to use.
To be found guilty and given the ban and fine is IMO unfair.
The judgement should have been to ban FA and RDLR from their super licence and ban the deisgner from working in F1 or motorsport at all. McLaren as a company appear to have done no wrong as far as I can see, just three (in Mclaren) and one (in Ferrari) that have talked about things, but never put them to use.
To be found guilty and given the ban and fine is IMO unfair.
Edited by toomuchbeer on Tuesday 18th September 13:53
Edited by toomuchbeer on Tuesday 18th September 13:56
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff