Stewards investigating Hamilton's driving
Discussion
Story:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62978
Possible evidence:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8hWIfBkVQUk
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62978
Possible evidence:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8hWIfBkVQUk
So then, one question.......
How long do the stewards get after the race has finished to start an investigation? It seems crazy that they can do this 4 day's after the incident occurred......... I mean, it's not like nobody knew LH was stopping and starting, it was plain to see on the offical TV footage.
I wonder who made them aware of the footage........
How long do the stewards get after the race has finished to start an investigation? It seems crazy that they can do this 4 day's after the incident occurred......... I mean, it's not like nobody knew LH was stopping and starting, it was plain to see on the offical TV footage.
I wonder who made them aware of the footage........
In dry conditions it is easy, when it was that wet so often the speed at which the pace car drives is not good for the F1 cars, they either need to go faster or slower, I think he was just slowing down to let the pace car pull out a bit then speeding back up to it ensuring no silly aquaplaning incidents at pace car speed.
Interesting new evidence. Like most people I only saw the ITV coverage of Vettel smacking Webber (and Martin Brundle mentioning how Dietrich Mateschitz was probably doing his nut with both Red Bull sponsored cars out of the race)
But it was clear from the start of the race, when the safety car was leading them onto the start of the race, that Hamilton was braking quite violently and Alonso had to back off on a number of occasions to avoid hitting him. (He didn't do such a good job of avoiding the wall at Turn 5 though...)
I suppose Hamilton will get a 10-place penalty, on the assumption that it will carry the championship over to the last race of the season.
But it was clear from the start of the race, when the safety car was leading them onto the start of the race, that Hamilton was braking quite violently and Alonso had to back off on a number of occasions to avoid hitting him. (He didn't do such a good job of avoiding the wall at Turn 5 though...)
I suppose Hamilton will get a 10-place penalty, on the assumption that it will carry the championship over to the last race of the season.
toomuchbeer said:
I wonder who made them aware of the footage........
Probably one of Bernies henchmen trawling YouTube for FIA footage to have removed. Got to love the hypocrisy!The coverage last weekend was appalling, conditions notwithstanding. Never has the back end of the grid (where, coincidentally, the Japanes drivers and cars are) received so much attention.
i was thinking the same thingThe BBC have a slightly different story. I like the last quote- surely this should exhonerate Hamilton???
Formula One officials are investigating Lewis Hamilton's victory in Sunday's Japanese Grand Prix following complaints about erratic driving.
Red Bull's Mark Webber has accused the Englishman of doing a "bad job" behind the safety car after being knocked out of the race while following Hamilton.
Hamilton's win at Fuji gave him a 12-point lead and put him on the verge of winning the world championship.
If he is found guilty, he could have his points from Japan erased.
Webber, who was knocked out of the race by Toro Rosso's Sebastian Vettel while they were following Hamilton, believes Hamilton braked excessively while they were following the safety car on lap 45.
The Australian almost overtook Hamilton as the McLaren driver slowed and moved to the right while following the safety car before an unsighted Vettel hit him.
The Red Bull driver said: "Hamilton did a bad job behind the safety car.
"He was not doing what he should have been doing, the rhythm was not there."
German driver Vettel echoed Webber's comments in criticising Hamilton.
"It was my fault, but it is clear the rhythm was not there," he said.
Formula One officials are investigating Lewis Hamilton's victory in Sunday's Japanese Grand Prix following complaints about erratic driving.
Red Bull's Mark Webber has accused the Englishman of doing a "bad job" behind the safety car after being knocked out of the race while following Hamilton.
Hamilton's win at Fuji gave him a 12-point lead and put him on the verge of winning the world championship.
If he is found guilty, he could have his points from Japan erased.
Webber, who was knocked out of the race by Toro Rosso's Sebastian Vettel while they were following Hamilton, believes Hamilton braked excessively while they were following the safety car on lap 45.
The Australian almost overtook Hamilton as the McLaren driver slowed and moved to the right while following the safety car before an unsighted Vettel hit him.
The Red Bull driver said: "Hamilton did a bad job behind the safety car.
"He was not doing what he should have been doing, the rhythm was not there."
German driver Vettel echoed Webber's comments in criticising Hamilton.
"It was my fault, but it is clear the rhythm was not there," he said.
It does raise the question of engineering a close end to the season on the FIAs part.
On the other hand, if there is solid evidence that LH behaved in a manner that caused an accident and is substantially different from how other drivers have behaved this season then he should be punished according to the relevant rules.
On the other hand, if there is solid evidence that LH behaved in a manner that caused an accident and is substantially different from how other drivers have behaved this season then he should be punished according to the relevant rules.
skeggysteve said:
Watching the video it seems, to me anyway, that Webber braked so not as to overtake Hamilton and thats what caused Vettel to run into him.
Strange thing is how every other Youtube video showing F1 is removed but not this one.
It also shows Webber's inexperience too. He instinctively braked because he didn't want to "overtake" Hamilton. Alonso or Raikkonen would have simply rolled past, allowing Hamilton to regain the "lead" as the corner played out onto the straight. Strange thing is how every other Youtube video showing F1 is removed but not this one.
We saw plenty of midfield runners pass one or more cars in front of them behind the pace car in that race, yet all managed to maintain position.
All Hamilton has to claim is that he moved right to ensure optimum visibility coming onto the straight.
toomuchbeer said:
So then, one question.......
How long do the stewards get after the race has finished to start an investigation? It seems crazy that they can do this 4 day's after the incident occurred......... I mean, it's not like nobody knew LH was stopping and starting, it was plain to see on the offical TV footage.
I wonder who made them aware of the footage........
From the article it sounds as if it was RBR/parent company that probably did given that they lost valuable points.How long do the stewards get after the race has finished to start an investigation? It seems crazy that they can do this 4 day's after the incident occurred......... I mean, it's not like nobody knew LH was stopping and starting, it was plain to see on the offical TV footage.
I wonder who made them aware of the footage........
skeggysteve said:
Watching the video it seems, to me anyway, that Webber braked so not as to overtake Hamilton and thats what caused Vettel to run into him.
It did, but if Webber had gone past Hamilton and then slowed to let him back past straight away surely that would have been alright?While i can see that LH was a little erratic on both re-starts, its only what we have seen numerous times from several drivers in the past, Montoya and Schumacher were always doing the same.
Any one cynical could say that its another anti Mclaren snipe, and there maybe an element of this, but whatever happens, webber and vettel will always be pissed off and try and blame someone else, its only human nature.
Any one cynical could say that its another anti Mclaren snipe, and there maybe an element of this, but whatever happens, webber and vettel will always be pissed off and try and blame someone else, its only human nature.
IainT said:
On the other hand, if there is solid evidence that LH behaved in a manner that caused an accident and is substantially different from how other drivers have behaved this season then he should be punished according to the relevant rules.
But do the rules dictate the speed at which the leader should drive? According to that Autosport piece it seems that only the distance to the pace car is defined.The BBC article also quotes Vettel as saying:
We are all sitting in the same boat. At that point (of the crash) I was distracted, looking to the right.
"I was sure Hamilton was retiring, he seemed to have no power any longer, but by the time I looked back, I was already in Mark's rear end."
So, if this happens on the road then the Police and the insurance companies would take into account that the drive who hit the other driver was'nt looking where he was going. Should an F1 driver be distracted??
Still, this didnt happen on the road. But in the F1 world. And lack of concentration on a drivers part must mean its Hamiltons fault. Actually, the Ferrari team were not concentrating when they kept the wrong tyres on. Maybe the FIA will give them the points from japan instead...
We are all sitting in the same boat. At that point (of the crash) I was distracted, looking to the right.
"I was sure Hamilton was retiring, he seemed to have no power any longer, but by the time I looked back, I was already in Mark's rear end."
So, if this happens on the road then the Police and the insurance companies would take into account that the drive who hit the other driver was'nt looking where he was going. Should an F1 driver be distracted??
Still, this didnt happen on the road. But in the F1 world. And lack of concentration on a drivers part must mean its Hamiltons fault. Actually, the Ferrari team were not concentrating when they kept the wrong tyres on. Maybe the FIA will give them the points from japan instead...
Sorry for my ignorance about the rules, but my understanding is that no passing can take place under safety car conditions (similarly, yellow flags). Once the safety car is in, the leader then becomes the SC and SC conditions remain in place until the green lights are shown and the cars pass the start-finish line.
Now, if a driver is unaware of a SC or yellow flag condition and comes flying around a corner and passes another car, nothing will come of it if he/she relinquishes the gained place. If this is the case, why is there a problem with what Lewis has done? Webber does not need to stay behind him at every single point behind the safety car.... he needs to be behind him when he crosses the line.
Please feel free to yell at me as I may be totally wrong.
Now, if a driver is unaware of a SC or yellow flag condition and comes flying around a corner and passes another car, nothing will come of it if he/she relinquishes the gained place. If this is the case, why is there a problem with what Lewis has done? Webber does not need to stay behind him at every single point behind the safety car.... he needs to be behind him when he crosses the line.
Please feel free to yell at me as I may be totally wrong.
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