Lewis will be World Champion in 39 hours..
Discussion
Jamesf288 said:
Fair enough, though you do kind of prove my point. I.e. it's a bit like flogging a dead horse.
This kind of gives the impression that many are only interested in a driver that's winning, which I can understand to a point, though it does smack of glory hunting. I've been a lifelong Ferrari fan. Now it was great when they were winning but they also went through years of mediocrity, but that didn't mean I started supporting Williams or McLaren.
Thats not really a fair comparison though, if you support a team then you support them because you like the "brand" and its history I guess regardless of their current performances, a bit like supporting a football team. This kind of gives the impression that many are only interested in a driver that's winning, which I can understand to a point, though it does smack of glory hunting. I've been a lifelong Ferrari fan. Now it was great when they were winning but they also went through years of mediocrity, but that didn't mean I started supporting Williams or McLaren.
Most British people will support British drivers because of their nationality as well as for their talent / ability, as a good example you didn't see that many British people avidly supporting Michael Schumacher during his career despite him being the obvious person a glory hunter would tag onto due to his undoubted talent and achievements.
LocoBlade said:
Jamesf288 said:
Fair enough, though you do kind of prove my point. I.e. it's a bit like flogging a dead horse.
This kind of gives the impression that many are only interested in a driver that's winning, which I can understand to a point, though it does smack of glory hunting. I've been a lifelong Ferrari fan. Now it was great when they were winning but they also went through years of mediocrity, but that didn't mean I started supporting Williams or McLaren.
Thats not really a fair comparison though, if you support a team then you support them because you like the "brand" and its history I guess regardless of their current performances, a bit like supporting a football team. This kind of gives the impression that many are only interested in a driver that's winning, which I can understand to a point, though it does smack of glory hunting. I've been a lifelong Ferrari fan. Now it was great when they were winning but they also went through years of mediocrity, but that didn't mean I started supporting Williams or McLaren.
Most British people will support British drivers because of their nationality as well as for their talent / ability, as a good example you didn't see that many British people avidly supporting Michael Schumacher during his career despite him being the obvious person a glory hunter would tag onto due to his undoubted talent and achievements.
castrolcraig said:
Altrezia said:
I dont think that's true. We (mostly) all still want button to do well, but there's no point saying that he'll get a win, is there?
I prefer button, but am still very pleased to see LH doing so well.
agreed, put JB in the mcmerc and i beleive he would beat LHI prefer button, but am still very pleased to see LH doing so well.
Jensons had more than enough time to get himself a good seat. Its not fair to say that if you put JB in a McMerc he'd do the job, because if it were true he would have been in a McMerc by now.
IIRC jenson doesn't have a great record of beating his team mates, and you have to say, Barrichello and Fisichella are not an Alonso.
I like Jenson and i think he's a good driver, but if he was gona be champ he'd have got a lot closer to it by now.
PS you don't get given a good seat, you have to earn it.
IIRC jenson doesn't have a great record of beating his team mates, and you have to say, Barrichello and Fisichella are not an Alonso.
I like Jenson and i think he's a good driver, but if he was gona be champ he'd have got a lot closer to it by now.
PS you don't get given a good seat, you have to earn it.
Top stuff...
nothing like puttin git on Pole to start the weekend!
then we get to Al
so, more whining than a 2 year old with tooth ache!
so, for all the bullshit from also that he brought McLaren 0.6 of a sec, LH wipes his arse in Q3 by 0.668 of a sec....
wonder if he forgot to install the 0.6 sec he was on about bringing with him?
PS. top result for DC, stealer performance in the RB
nothing like puttin git on Pole to start the weekend!
then we get to Al
so, more whining than a 2 year old with tooth ache!so, for all the bullshit from al
so that he brought McLaren 0.6 of a sec, LH wipes his arse in Q3 by 0.668 of a sec....wonder if he forgot to install the 0.6 sec he was on about bringing with him?
PS. top result for DC, stealer performance in the RB
Edited by Scuffers on Saturday 6th October 16:45
castrolcraig said:
Altrezia said:
I dont think that's true. We (mostly) all still want button to do well, but there's no point saying that he'll get a win, is there?
I prefer button, but am still very pleased to see LH doing so well.
agreed, put JB in the mcmerc and i beleive he would beat LHI prefer button, but am still very pleased to see LH doing so well.
If he has the ability to get into a crap car and make it great, as Schumacher did, he will be unstoppable. As he has already shown he has raw natural talent. IMHO ofcourse.
Cad
Heebeegeetee said:
IIRC jenson doesn't have a great record of beating his team mates, and you have to say, Barrichello and Fisichella are not an Alonso.
Look it up (on www.formula1.com for example) and you'll find he's actually got a pretty good record against his team mates. The only time he's not significantly outperformed his team mates is in the crap Benetton early in his career, and you could say the first few races in the crap Honda this year. I do think he has a weakness of not being able to drive a bad car to the limit that consistently, but when in a half decent car he more often than not seems to have the measure of his team-mate.LocoBlade said:
Heebeegeetee said:
IIRC jenson doesn't have a great record of beating his team mates, and you have to say, Barrichello and Fisichella are not an Alonso.
Look it up (on www.formula1.com for example) and you'll find he's actually got a pretty good record against his team mates. The only time he's not significantly outperformed his team mates is in the crap Benetton early in his career, and you could say the first few races in the crap Honda this year. I do think he has a weakness of not being able to drive a bad car to the limit that consistently, but when in a half decent car he more often than not seems to have the measure of his team-mate.JB didn't wipe the floor with Fisichella like Alonso did. And who's beating Alonso in the same car?
Heebeegeetee said:
Yeah but thats different from consistently beating them, and it doesn't matter how crap the car, its the same for both of them. In fact being in a crap car gives a drivdr the opportunity to do more than his team mate to improve the car.
JB didn't wipe the floor with Fisichella like Alonso did. And who's beating Alonso in the same car?
"Pretty good record" or "consistently beating them" means much the same to me, it was just the words I chose so no it wasn't intended to mean something different. JB didn't wipe the floor with Fisichella like Alonso did. And who's beating Alonso in the same car?
I don't want to turn this into another how good is Button thread though as we've been there and got the T Shirt on this forum with that topic, but if you actually look at the results, from 2003 to 2005 he outscored his teammates with at least twice as many points each year, including the year against Villeneuve at BAR when he was the new boy in the team, and he only missed out doing the same to Barrichello last season by 4 points (56 to 30), so Id say that was fairly consistently beating them and comparable to Alonso against his teammates over the same period.
As I said though, Button didnt perform well in the 2002 Benetton against Fisichella and its a weakness still to a certain extent so it would seem given his early season form this year, but I think its a little simplistic to compare drivers from different years in different cars performing at different levels and arrive at any reasonable conclusion on who's better, so just because Hamilton is beating Alonso but Alonso beat Fisichella and Fisichella beat Button doesn't therefore mean Button is NOW worse or better than any of them. If you look at it that way you could turn it around by looking at Button and Alonso's performances against Trulli. Button outscored Trulli 14/9 in 2002, the same driver who went on to outpoint Alonso in 2004 until about 3 races to go when he got the boot and went to Toyota, therefore does that make Button better than Alonso?
I think probably not, and I don't think Jenson would quite match Hamilton over a season either given his outstanding performance this year which surely will only improve further with experience, but apart from his first season at Benetton Buttons record against his teammate compares pretty favourably with anyone else's on the grid and I do think his ability gets unfairly shot down all too often by those who maybe don't approve of his early career off track antics or his ill advised contract U turns.
Kurgen said:
Hamilton is a proper talent, and is winning against the best drivers in the best cars.. IMO the last British driver to win the world championship with true talent against the best, was Jackie Stewart.
Damon Hill only won, when Schumacher moved to Ferrari.. and was not in the same league.
Mansell won because the Williams was vastly superior to the McLaren of Senna.
Hunt won because Lauder refused to race in the wet in Japan.
There is no question that Alonso in the McLaren and Raikonnen in the Ferrari are the best 2 driver/team combos, that even Schumacher at his peak, would struggle against..
Hamilton will be a truly talented Champion.. not just a good driver in the best car!
Rob
Fully agree.Damon Hill only won, when Schumacher moved to Ferrari.. and was not in the same league.
Mansell won because the Williams was vastly superior to the McLaren of Senna.
Hunt won because Lauder refused to race in the wet in Japan.
There is no question that Alonso in the McLaren and Raikonnen in the Ferrari are the best 2 driver/team combos, that even Schumacher at his peak, would struggle against..
Hamilton will be a truly talented Champion.. not just a good driver in the best car!
Rob
If you beat you team mate, [your first priority] and he's the current
World Champion, just how could you be better?
And take the pressure hes had.
Plenty of World Champions have folded whilst leading races, not the least Ayrton.His ability to win races from the front, and filter out the pressure is incredible.
Lewis is Gold.
24karat Gold.
Button is smooth, and its unfortunate the car only becomes competitive at the end of the year, eventually giving a telling indicator of how good he is.
To compare him with LH is pointless.
Kurgen said:
I reckon he will beat Alonso this weekend, and in so doing win the title.
Then he will showboat a win in Brazil as Champion..
Ladbrokes have him at 4/7 to wrap it up this weekend.
Can't wait for qualy and race..
What a season!
Tell you what. I've been feeling pretty smug for the last week because I put a cheeky tenner on Hamilton before the start of the season at 9/1. Mentioned something about it when I stopped in to see the old black & deckers at Haymarket and on of the lads in the office has got 100 quid on him that he put down at 18/1 at the END of last season. Barsteward!Then he will showboat a win in Brazil as Champion..
Ladbrokes have him at 4/7 to wrap it up this weekend.
Can't wait for qualy and race..
What a season!
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