Disgusted with Alonso

[bennno]

Alonso appears to have been exceptionally disloyal to McLaren this year, both in terms of his press outbursts and in his involvement which ultimately led to the team being stripped of all points this year. I read today he is now in Italy volunteering evidence. Over the last week have read from all sources of his criticism for Ron Dennis and favouritism being shown for his team mate.

Personally I have lost all respect for the whining spaniard, who simply appears to be throwing his toys out of the pram as he is up against a team mate for the first time who clearly has a similar or better capability.

The damage he has caused to McLaren and RD this year, with the potential knock on for their sponsors has been significant. Even when Prost and Senna were neck and neck in the championships for McLaren neither turned on the team.

For me I half wish he wins the championship as he will then look a fool. I then hope he loses his seat for next year as if you did as he has done in any other form of paid employment you would be out of the door before its possible to say gross misconduct.

Bennno

[_Batty_]

bennno said:

Alonso appears to have been exceptionally disloyal to McLaren this year, both in terms of his press outbursts and in his involvement which ultimately led to the team being stripped of all points this year. I read today he is now in Italy volunteering evidence. Over the last week have read from all sources of his criticism for Ron Dennis and favouritism being shown for his team mate.

Personally I have lost all respect for the whining spantard, who simply appears to be throwing his toys out of the pram as he is up against a team mate for the first time who clearly has a similar or better capability.

The damage he has caused to McLaren and RD this year, with the potential knock on for their sponsors has been significant. Even when Prost and Senna were neck and neck in the championships for McLaren neither turned on the team.

For me I half wish he wins the championship as he will then look a fool. I then hope he loses his seat for next year as if you did as he has done in any other form of paid employment you would be out of the door before its possible to say gross misconduct.

Bennno

edited for accuracy Spantard© of _Batty_ and Ph

[Woody]

Rumour suggests that he's signed a letter of intent with Renault next year for a contract until 2010.
If this is the case and he can negotiate his way out of Mclaren he will either want to go back as world champ or if not he'll take Lewis out so he can't win it.
The guy is a complete ck - why on earth any team would sign him now though is beyond me, he's shown himself to be nothing more than unsportsman like, and a spoilt little kid.
I hope he doesn't win and that RD will hold him to his contract but put him on gardening leave for next season - that'll teach him.


Chris

[tim the pool man]

Woody said:

...
I hope he doesn't win and that RD will hold him to his contract but put him on gardening leave for next season - that'll teach him.


Chris

great call, I don't know what Alfonso is paid per season but I bet it isn't £100,000,000... I would team LH with perhaps another young English driver and let F.A (now why do those initials seem familiar? ) do the testing (preferably of "experimental" and slightly risky components )

[jesusbuiltmycar]

I am hoping that three is a pitlane cock up and they accidently put a space saver on his car

much like ferrari's clwons did to irvine

[Heebeegeetee]

Woody said:

he's shown himself to be nothing more than unsportsman like, and a spoilt little kid.

Nothing more? He's not a nearly triple champion then? If he does win this championship (though I hope Lewis does) he'll be the first driver to win consecutive championships for different teams since Fangio, apparently.

The fact is, British fans are possibly the only ones that doesn't think Alonso has been screwed. The rest of the world seems to be taking a more pragmatic and possibly realistic view.

I know Ron keeps saying the team operates equally, but Ron didn't know what was going on within his own team re the spying scandal.

[motormania]

I'm British and proud to be British, however I'm not looking at this through rose-tinted glasses.

Ron Dennis has not exactly been whiter than white this year - so don't throw all the shite onto Alonso's head.

Ron kept on saying that he had nothing to hide and that McLaren had not used any data from the documents or communications Mike and Nigel had, yet the evidence shown to the FIA clearly shows that others within McLaren did use data, to what extend we will probably never know.

I hope that Alonso or Kimi wins, not becuase I dislike Lewis, far from it, he's a bloody good driver, but could you imagine the media out-pouring from Lewis' win. James 'The Cock' Allan would be demanding that the PM knights him, that we should all worship the ground he walks on - please

Lewis is bound to win more titles in the many years ahead of him, let's not tarnish his first from a season like we've had this year which has seen F1 drag itself through more public shite than I'd like to remember.

As a Britian through and through, I'd be happy to wave the flags to Lewis when he wins a title without all the crap that surrounds this years... so let Alonso or Kimi take the shite

[Bagman]

motormania said:

I'm British and proud to be British, however I'm not looking at this through rose-tinted glasses.

Ron Dennis has not exactly been whiter than white this year - so don't throw all the shite onto Alonso's head.

Ron kept on saying that he had nothing to hide and that McLaren had not used any data from the documents or communications Mike and Nigel had, yet the evidence shown to the FIA clearly shows that others within McLaren did use data, to what extend we will probably never know.

I hope that Alonso or Kimi wins, not becuase I dislike Lewis, far from it, he's a bloody good driver, but could you imagine the media out-pouring from Lewis' win. James 'The Cock' Allan would be demanding that the PM knights him, that we should all worship the ground he walks on - please

Lewis is bound to win more titles in the many years ahead of him, let's not tarnish his first from a season like we've had this year which has seen F1 drag itself through more public shite than I'd like to remember.

As a Britian through and through, I'd be happy to wave the flags to Lewis when he wins a title without all the crap that surrounds this years... so let Alonso or Kimi take the shite

Unless he goes off the rails. Bloke in his early 20s being paid tens maybe hundreds of millions, could happen.

[LDNrevs]

motormania said:

I hope that Alonso or Kimi wins

No no, Lewis or Kimi... anything but Alonso winning. He does not deserve it after all the backstabbing. Maybe he has felt unfairly outed by Lewis but that's only because LH has proven himself equal...

[castrolcraig]

_Batty said:

Personally I have lost all respect for the whining spantard, who simply appears to be throwing his toys out of the pram as he is up against a team mate for the first time who clearly has a similar or better capability.

Bennno

edited for accuracy Spantard© of _Batty_ and Ph

Ah the spantard word in quality use yet again

hope someone does indeed have a moment and swipes alonso, oh go on jenson, theres a drive at mcmerc in it next year for you.....

Edited by castrolcraig on Thursday 11th October 12:00

Edited by castrolcraig on Thursday 11th October 12:01

[Woody]

Heebeegeetee said:

Woody said:

he's shown himself to be nothing more than unsportsman like, and a spoilt little kid.

Nothing more? He's not a nearly triple champion then? If he does win this championship (though I hope Lewis does) he'll be the first driver to win consecutive championships for different teams since Fangio, apparently.

The fact is, British fans are possibly the only ones that doesn't think Alonso has been screwed. The rest of the world seems to be taking a more pragmatic and possibly realistic view.

I know Ron keeps saying the team operates equally, but Ron didn't know what was going on within his own team re the spying scandal.

Yes he maybe nearly a triple world champ, but he hasn't handled himself very well has he? - he's always coming out slagging somebody off and complaining that he's not treated fair and the way he held RD to ransom over the information that he had was about as unprofessional as you can get.
As a nearly triple world champ he should conduct himself properly - i.e. shut the fk up and let his driving do the talking.
Having spoken to a guy who worked for Renault (and in FA's crew) for a couple of years its apparent he has a massive ego and attitude problem - so much so that if managment didn't have a word he would have taken a bit of a kicking (allegedley).

Granted RD and LH have said a few and done a few 'stupid' things but FA has been a complete ck.

Chris

[toomuchbeer]

tim the pool man said:

Woody said:

...
I hope he doesn't win and that RD will hold him to his contract but put him on gardening leave for next season - that'll teach him.


Chris

great call, I don't know what Alfonso is paid per season but I bet it isn't £100,000,000... I would team LH with perhaps another young English driver and let F.A (now why do those initials seem familiar? ) do the testing (preferably of "experimental" and slightly risky components )

I think even McLarens pockets are not deep enough to pay the Spantard and keep him out of the car. Although I would love him to be side lined, and not only Not drive the car either testing or otherwise, but make him do all the PR stuff, even at race events.!!! That would be sweet, FA handing out drinks in the McLaren motor home, and get him sweeping the floor in the pits, and washing the trucks.!!!

[LDNrevs]

toomuchbeer said:

FA handing out drinks in the McLaren motor home, and get him sweeping the floor in the pits, and washing the trucks.!!!

How sweet that would be.....

[mattikake]

LDNrevs said:

motormania said:

I hope that Alonso or Kimi wins

No no, Lewis or Kimi... anything but Alonso winning. He does not deserve it after all the backstabbing. Maybe he has felt unfairly outed by Lewis but that's only because LH has proven himself equal...

Agreed 100%. Even though I'm British and support all British drivers by default (and therefore very very happy that LH looks to be then next F1 legend in the making!) I would also be satisfied to see KR win the WDC. He's never really been in the position to do so and is definitely worthy.

But FA, while he was a favoured choice to beat Schumi over the last few years, has turned into a total pr!ck really, hasn't he? Even Schumi didn't turn into one when he realised he was being bested by FA. He just quit instead! I wonder if FA should too if he can't handle being the best anymore?

Anyway, my point. People should buy this months F1 Racing magazine. It has a subperb article and summary on the FA and McLaren spat, termed The Enemy Within. And thinking about it, is there any other more fitting title to use?!

[Heebeegeetee]

Woody said:

As a nearly triple world champ he should conduct himself properly - i.e. shut the fk up and let his driving do the talking.
Having spoken to a guy who worked for Renault (and in FA's crew) for a couple of years its apparent he has a massive ego and attitude problem - so much so that if managment didn't have a word he would have taken a bit of a kicking (allegedley).

Well, take the Alain prost saga i mentioned - he tested at a circuit with the team and was consistently within a tenth of Senna, then when they return to the circuit a month or so later he's suddenly a second slower than Senna. He knew clearly that something was up, and it turned out that Honda were supplying him duff engines. Prost complained to the media, Honda were dee[ly embarrased, and after that the drivers got to pick their engines and Prost was never that slow again. So how precisely, was he supposed to 'let his driving do the talking'? At the time, Prost said "call me a whinger if you like but don't call me stupid".

A mate of mine is reading the Coulthard bio at the mo, and in that he says that the team did all they could to dissuade Coulthard of having the feeedom to choose his engines.

Now, there's been a good few other drivers who have complained of there treatment at McLaren. Maybe every one of them was wrong. Somebody has said that none of them could cut it, including Montoya. I used to watch Montoya overtake Schumacher quite often, something that Damon Hill f'rinstance couldn't do hardly to save his life, and he was a world champ.

The fact is, driving the car just isn't enough to win a world championship, never was, never will be. There's a whole lot more to it than that.

I'm surprised at your comment re the Renault workers, 'cos I saw a prog about the Renault F1 team a few years back, when Alonoso and Trulli were there, and some personnel were asked which driver they favoured and they very clearly favoured Alonso, (which i thought was quite naughty of them to say so), you could see it in their faces that they liked him very much indeed, apparently he spent a lot of time at the factory and took the trouble to walk the floors and see as many people as he could etc.

At China, IIRC, before Q3 Alonso was fastest or thereabouts all weekend, then suddenly in the last 2 laps of Q3 he was fourth fastest, in 2 laps in which
he felt that the laps were good. I've bought Autosport today but haven't read it yet, perhaps they'll explain how Fernando was suddenly (and it was sudden) slower than Massa.

Interestingly, during the race, i don't recall the team agonising over which tyres to put on Fernando. Also, Ron Dennis is quoted as saying 'we weren't racing Kimi, we were racing fernando'. Thats "WE" were racing Fernando. Does that sound impartial to you?

mattikake said:

Anyway, my point. People should buy this months F1 Racing magazine. It has a subperb article and summary on the FA and McLaren spat, termed The Enemy Within. And thinking about it, is there any other more fitting title to use?!

Thanks, I'll but it and I'll read it, but i shall be aware that its written from a british perspective, and as always, i shan't be so naive to swallow all of it whole.

[motormania]

Heebeegeetee said:

Woody said:

As a nearly triple world champ he should conduct himself properly - i.e. shut the fk up and let his driving do the talking.
Having spoken to a guy who worked for Renault (and in FA's crew) for a couple of years its apparent he has a massive ego and attitude problem - so much so that if managment didn't have a word he would have taken a bit of a kicking (allegedley).

Well, take the Alain prost saga i mentioned - he tested at a circuit with the team and was consistently within a tenth of Senna, then when they return to the circuit a month or so later he's suddenly a second slower than Senna. He knew clearly that something was up, and it turned out that Honda were supplying him duff engines. Prost complained to the media, Honda were dee[ly embarrased, and after that the drivers got to pick their engines and Prost was never that slow again. So how precisely, was he supposed to 'let his driving do the talking'? At the time, Prost said "call me a whinger if you like but don't call me stupid".

A mate of mine is reading the Coulthard bio at the mo, and in that he says that the team did all they could to dissuade Coulthard of having the feeedom to choose his engines.

Now, there's been a good few other drivers who have complained of there treatment at McLaren. Maybe every one of them was wrong. Somebody has said that none of them could cut it, including Montoya. I used to watch Montoya overtake Schumacher quite often, something that Damon Hill f'rinstance couldn't do hardly to save his life, and he was a world champ.

The fact is, driving the car just isn't enough to win a world championship, never was, never will be. There's a whole lot more to it than that.

I'm surprised at your comment re the Renault workers, 'cos I saw a prog about the Renault F1 team a few years back, when Alonoso and Trulli were there, and some personnel were asked which driver they favoured and they very clearly favoured Alonso, (which i thought was quite naughty of them to say so), you could see it in their faces that they liked him very much indeed, apparently he spent a lot of time at the factory and took the trouble to walk the floors and see as many people as he could etc.

At China, IIRC, before Q3 Alonso was fastest or thereabouts all weekend, then suddenly in the last 2 laps of Q3 he was fourth fastest, in 2 laps in which
he felt that the laps were good. I've bought Autosport today but haven't read it yet, perhaps they'll explain how Fernando was suddenly (and it was sudden) slower than Massa.

Interestingly, during the race, i don't recall the team agonising over which tyres to put on Fernando. Also, Ron Dennis is quoted as saying 'we weren't racing Kimi, we were racing fernando'. Thats "WE" were racing Fernando. Does that sound impartial to you?

mattikake said:

Anyway, my point. People should buy this months F1 Racing magazine. It has a subperb article and summary on the FA and McLaren spat, termed The Enemy Within. And thinking about it, is there any other more fitting title to use?!

Thanks, I'll but it and I'll read it, but i shall be aware that its written from a british perspective, and as always, i shan't be so naive to swallow all of it whole.

Well put

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only British F1 fan who is not being taken in by the Ron Dennis and Lewis Hamilton PR machine...

Sanity does thrive in some parts of this country

Edited by motormania on Thursday 11th October 13:32

[Heebeegeetee]

motormania said:

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only British F1 fan who is not being taken in by the Ron Dennis and Lewis Hamilton PR machine...

Sanity does thrive in some parts of this country

Er, don't get too excited, I am convinced that lewis is in fact the second coming.

I think he should be champ because he has been far and away the best driver. Though I also think that Fernando shouldn't have been penalised in hungary, and without that he might be ahead in the championship now, who knows?

But I'm not bothered by Fernandos's strops, it F1 i'm watching, not tiddly winks or popularity contests, and i'm not the slightest bit interested in good losers. jenson Button is a good loser, Fernando isn't, and I know who i'd sooner watch anyday of the week. The vast majority of people who criticise haven't the foggiest of what it takes to win a world championship.

[mattikake]

Heebeegeetee said:

Well, take the Alain prost saga i mentioned - he tested at a circuit with the team and was consistently within a tenth of Senna, then when they return to the circuit a month or so later he's suddenly a second slower than Senna. He knew clearly that something was up, and it turned out that Honda were supplying him duff engines. Prost complained to the media, Honda were dee[ly embarrased, and after that the drivers got to pick their engines and Prost was never that slow again. So how precisely, was he supposed to 'let his driving do the talking'? At the time, Prost said "call me a whinger if you like but don't call me stupid".

Wasn't that down to Honda not McLaren? I seem to remember Honda doing exactly the same thing with Mansell and Piquet in '87 at Williams. Mansell at one point in the season was losing 18Kph on the straights to Piquet pure through engine power!

Heebeegeetee said:

At China, IIRC, before Q3 Alonso was fastest or thereabouts all weekend, then suddenly in the last 2 laps of Q3 he was fourth fastest, in 2 laps in which
he felt that the laps were good. I've bought Autosport today but haven't read it yet, perhaps they'll explain how Fernando was suddenly (and it was sudden) slower than Massa.

He made a mistake trying too hard, going beyond his limits. You were shown a replay on TV of him running past the curb , kicking up dust and having a bit of a wobble at least at the end of the middle sector/start of the final sector and may have also done so on the final corner (from memory). It was also very apparent on the live timings on Formula1.com - 1st sector which basically consists of 2 straights and the first two corners, was within a tenth of LH... You can't hold McLaren responsible for that.

Anyway, LH has been up to FA form all season, so are you saying LH has been a clear McLaren favourite since the start? That's pretty schemey, even by Ferrari standards!

Heebeegeetee said:

Interestingly, during the race, i don't recall the team agonising over which tyres to put on Fernando. Also, Ron Dennis is quoted as saying 'we weren't racing Kimi, we were racing fernando'. Thats "WE" were racing Fernando. Does that sound impartial to you?

I think Alsono can hold himself responsible for his choice(s) not to be part of the 'We' anymore...

Heebeegeetee said:

mattikake said:

Anyway, my point. People should buy this months F1 Racing magazine. It has a subperb article and summary on the FA and McLaren spat, termed The Enemy Within. And thinking about it, is there any other more fitting title to use?!

Thanks, I'll but it and I'll read it, but i shall be aware that its written from a british perspective, and as always, i shan't be so naive to swallow all of it whole.

It was pretty to the point and granted it was clearly 'a' perspective, but the evidence was ewll presented. Also, it's not a British magazine. It's only published over here and written in the international language ( ), but the authors and contributors are from all over the world, though mostly Europe.

Edited by mattikake on Thursday 11th October 14:05

[Woody]

Heebeegeetee said:

I'm surprised at your comment re the Renault workers, 'cos I saw a prog about the Renault F1 team a few years back, when Alonoso and Trulli were there, and some personnel were asked which driver they favoured and they very clearly favoured Alonso, (which i thought was quite naughty of them to say so), you could see it in their faces that they liked him very much indeed, apparently he spent a lot of time at the factory and took the trouble to walk the floors and see as many people as he could etc.

My comment is based on a conversation I had after he'd won his first world title - I think that's when he developed an "I'm number one and brilliant attitide"

Wasn't aware of the Senna / Prost thing - well not to that extent anyway.

I don't think any of them have handled themselves very well all season - and Lewis has had his fair share of dropping briks with stupid comments - but there's a time for gobbing off and a time for keeping quiet.
I don't think FA has done himself any favours just as Mclaren haven't - it's all a bit pathetic.

Anyway - Kimi for the win and title next week!

Chris

[Heebeegeetee]

mattikake said:

Heebeegeetee said:

Well, take the Alain prost saga i mentioned - he tested at a circuit with the team and was consistently within a tenth of Senna, then when they return to the circuit a month or so later he's suddenly a second slower than Senna. He knew clearly that something was up, and it turned out that Honda were supplying him duff engines. Prost complained to the media, Honda were dee[ly embarrased, and after that the drivers got to pick their engines and Prost was never that slow again. So how precisely, was he supposed to 'let his driving do the talking'? At the time, Prost said "call me a whinger if you like but don't call me stupid".

Wasn't that down to Honda not McLaren? I seem to remember Honda doing exactly the same thing with Mansell and Piquet in '87 at Williams. Mansell at one point in the season was losing 18Kph on the straights to Piquet pure through engine power!

Only if (again) we are to believe that the team don't know whats going on within the team, and I know that Prost was left pretty much to fight his own battle. Being the political animal that he was, he did.

Edited by Heebeegeetee on Thursday 11th October 15:02