FIA Interferance

[mark69sheer]

I have a horrible feeling that the FIA scrutineer is going to decide this whole season based on a whim.

So much for the car development , testing , sponsors , media , fans

I hope Arsonso blows the engine in qualifying trying to beat Hamilton and has to start 10 places back...

[Heebeegeetee]

megy said:

IIRC some teams in the past will run developement components on one car, and retain the existing components on the other, this has never been classed as cheating or providing an unfair advantage before, I also seem to rememeber that last year Alonso was given a newer spec race engine over and above the one Fisi was running, as well as having been given newer and better suspension parts in several races.

There is no requirement on teams to give equal treatment, so why the FIA are getting involved I don't know. If the FIA had minded their own business in Hungary Alonso wouldn't be behind in the points now.

[philis]

Heebeegeetee said:

megy said:

IIRC some teams in the past will run developement components on one car, and retain the existing components on the other, this has never been classed as cheating or providing an unfair advantage before, I also seem to rememeber that last year Alonso was given a newer spec race engine over and above the one Fisi was running, as well as having been given newer and better suspension parts in several races.

There is no requirement on teams to give equal treatment, so why the FIA are getting involved I don't know. If the FIA had minded their own business in Hungary Alonso wouldn't be behind in the points now.

quite right. What happens if farrari slow massa down to alow kimi to win, will the FIA stick their noses in then? no way. So whats the difference with mclaren?

[jamieboy]

philis said:

What happens if farrari slow massa down to alow kimi to win, will the FIA stick their noses in then? no way. So whats the difference with mclaren?

If Ferrari slowed Massa down to let Kimi win, it would be because the alternative would be a driver from another team winning - Massa being out of contention.

If McLaren were to slow down Alonso to allow Hamilton to win (them both being in the same team), then it would look as though Alonso was being punished for talking to the FIA about the McLaren-Ferrari shenanigans.

Helping your team to beat another team is one thing, helping one of your drivers to beat the other of your drivers is another.

[Heebeegeetee]

jamieboy said:

If Ferrari slowed Massa down to let Kimi win, it would be because the alternative would be a driver from another team winning - Massa being out of contention.

If McLaren were to slow down Alonso to allow Hamilton to win (them both being in the same team), then it would look as though Alonso was being punished for talking to the FIA about the McLaren-Ferrari shenanigans.

Helping your team to beat another team is one thing, helping one of your drivers to beat the other of your drivers is another.

Well put, but still the FIA never showed any interest in Ferrari, even when we all heard Todt asking Rubens to let Michael pass for the championship, even though the championship wasn't at stake at that point in time.

The FIA have well and truly ed this years championship.

[jamieboy]

Heebeegeetee said:

Well put, but still the FIA never showed any interest in Ferrari, even when we all heard Todt asking Rubens to let Michael pass for the championship, even though the championship wasn't at stake at that point in time.

True, nor in the MH-DC thing in the first race of '98.

I guess without the shadow of the court case over the season, there's never been a real need - the assumption being that DC and RB were happy (or at least prepared) to move over when told do. That's still a little different to deliberately handicapping one of your drivers.

It's a shame, I think it's been quite a good season, but it'll be remembered for all the wrong reasons.

[deevlash]

What a bunch of utter morons. Did they scrutineer Schumacher and Barrichellos cars when there was clearly unfair treatment going on? The FIA have lost the plot.

[stew-S160]

im close to losing it with F1.

alonso, ferrari, and the FIA have killed it for me.

they want to appoint someone to make sure both drivers are given equal chances? why? its got nothing to do with them. if this is now a problem, then i suggest ferrari have their recent championships removed. wont happen will it.

[jamieboy]

stew-S160 said:

they want to appoint someone to make sure both drivers are given equal chances? why? its got nothing to do with them. if this is now a problem, then i suggest ferrari have their recent championships removed. wont happen will it.

Do you honestly not appreciate the difference between RB agreeing to move over to let MS through (rumoured to be a condition of RB's contract) and McLaren hobbling Alonso's car to punish him for telling tales?

In one instance, the two drivers and the team are working together. In the other, one driver and the team are working against the other driver. Big difference.

Given the FIA's statement that they'd take a dim view of McLaren punishing Alonso for talking to them, I'd disagree with your claim that it has nothing to do with them.

And before this gets turned around, I don't think McLaren would do something like that. If the scrutineer finds nothing wrong, Alonso can't really complain. If there were no scrutineer, no-one could prove Alonso's claims to be false.

[anonymous-user]

jamieboy said:

In China, I seem to remember Alonso being quicker than LH in Q1 and Q2, then (relatively) way off the pace in Q3. Alonso seems to be suggesting this was down to foul play, and although I'd be surprised if it was, the FIA are keeping an eye on it.

Q1
Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:35.692
Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:35.792 (+ 0.1 on Kimi)
Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:35.798 (+ 0.106 on Kimi)
Fernando Alonso McLaren-Mercedes 1:35.809 (+ 0.117 on Kimi)

Q2
Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:35.381 (0.248 faster than Q1)
Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:35.796 (0.004 slower than Q1)
Fernando Alonso McLaren-Mercedes 1:35.845 (0.036 slower than Q1)
Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:35.898 (0.1 slower than Q1)

Q3
Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:35.908 (0.11 slower than best of Q1/Q2)
Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:36.044 (0.663 slower than best of Q1/Q2)
Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:36.221 (0.429 slower than best of Q1/Q2)
Fernando Alonso McLaren-Mercedes 1:36.576 (0.767 slower than best of Q1/Q2)

So why isnt Kimi complaining too? I'd say it's because there is nothing to complain about. Lewis did a stunning job in Q3, thats why he was on pole and lost less time than the other runners when on race fuel. If Kimi can lose 0.663s, it's not out of the question Alonso could lose 0.767s at the same time.

[corozin]

Predictions for the weekend :

1) The FIA scrutineer appointed to oversee MacLaren turns out to be Max Mosley.

2) Mosley inspects the cars and excludes Lewis Hamilton for being black (think about it) and for driving too fast in a car without a Ferrari badge fitted.

3) Alonso's ego expansion promptly causes his head to explode inside his helmet, killing him.

4) Kimi Raikkonnen wins race, wins championship.

5) The Brazilians play Massa's National anthem on the podium anyway as an insult.

6) Bernie collects another £60 million, but still forgets to book a haircut.

7) James Allen interviews Lewis Hamilton after the race and asks him what it was like winning the race and the world championship.

Edited by corozin on Thursday 11th October 21:39

[jamieboy]

johnfelstead said:

So why isnt Kimi complaining too? I'd say it's because there is nothing to complain about. Lewis did a stunning job in Q3, thats why he was on pole and lost less time than the other runners when on race fuel. If Kimi can lose 0.663s, it's not out of the question Alonso could lose 0.767s at the same time.

Thanks for the figures, interesting.

I agree that it's not out of the question for Alonso to lose that much time, but he (for whatever reason) didn't think there should be such a disparity between his time and Lewis's.

Because he's complaining about it, and because the FIA said they'd be keeping an eye on McLaren for this sort of thing, they're having an extra scrutineer. Like I said above, I expect this guy will be able to confirm that there is no skulduggery regarding Alonso's car - but without him there, Alonso could claim all sorts of wrongdoing, and we wouldn't really know the truth of it. Surely better to put up with the (minor?) inconvenience of an observer than to have Alonso in a position to snipe at the team for conspiring against him, and to have no independent evidence to the contrary?

Gazboy's point is valid though - who can decide what was an accidental 'accident' and what was a deliberate one? If they're on the same strategy, and one driver gets to pit on the ideal lap, is that preferential treatment? It's tricky, and I don't know how they plan to police it, but I'm glad it's not my job.

Edited by jamieboy on Thursday 11th October 21:46

[Mojocvh]

Hmm, this is getting really silly. The FIA are stagemanaging the result in their own interests, all this bs from the "players" about LH "revitalising" F1 is just that, its going to end in tears.

[anonymous-user]

jamieboy said:

I agree that it's not out of the question for Alonso to lose that much time, but he (for whatever reason) didn't think there should be such a disparity between his time and Lewis's.

Of course he doesnt think he should be so far behind lewis, because he cant come to terms with the fact he is being out driven. Look back through previous qualifying sessions over the year, and you see a similar patern of Lewis pulling it out of the bag in Q3, and Fernando not doing so.

I think it's outrageous that the FIA are sending an extra scrutineer to keep an eye on McLaren. I just hope the guy gets in the way of the engineers enough to screw up some part of Fernando's preperation, that would be highly amusing.

[ELAN+2]

johnfelstead said:

jamieboy said:

I agree that it's not out of the question for Alonso to lose that much time, but he (for whatever reason) didn't think there should be such a disparity between his time and Lewis's.

Of course he doesnt think he should be so far behind lewis, because he cant come to terms with the fact he is being out driven. Look back through previous qualifying sessions over the year, and you see a similar patern of Lewis pulling it out of the bag in Q3, and Fernando not doing so.

I think it's outrageous that the FIA are sending an extra scrutineer to keep an eye on McLaren. I just hope the guy gets in the way of the engineers enough to screw up some part of Fernando's preperation, that would be highly amusing.

I have visions of a ferret faced bloke holding up the Spantards pitstops, checking his tyre pressures.......... poxy FIA

[corozin]

I have visions of Jackie Stewart "checking" Max Mosley's tyre pressures, after what he said this week...

[Heebeegeetee]

I wonder what'll happen if the team refuse to change Alonsos tyres.

[Piglet]

These guys (Alonso's guys) already work under vast amounts of pressure at GP's, this is a critical race and it seems to me that putting them under more pressure will only increase the likelyhood of someone making a mistake.

It's all a bit crap really.

[10 Pence Short]

What would happen to McLaren if they chose to sack Fernando Alonso this week?

[Piglet]

10 Pence Short said:

What would happen to McLaren if they chose to sack Fernando Alonso this week?

I think Uncle Max might just regard that as disadvantaging him in the championship!

If they had a decent reason to (like finding him shipping confidential info out to an opponent) they might get away with it I guess.