Discussion
Kimi holds everyone in contempt. So many people thought it was great when he told Brundle he was having a shit, but Kimi knew he was on live tv and he knew what he was doing. What he was doing was telling Brundle to "
off, and take your numpty telly viewers with you!"didn't get that impression myself, there is a wry smile on his face as he says it more to do with who tf is schumacher anyway don't care for him and I aint going to clap for him.
he does seem a bit of a bore but to be honest he could be a screeming homosexual with a Laama for a wife, in his private life, I only care about what goes on , on the track
Heebeegeetee said:
I can't get excited by Kimi. He's had the tools to win the championship by now, and should be leading this one. He won the first race with a completely illegal car and yet still trails third. He's spent a couple of races trailing Hamilton, saying at the press conference that there's no chance of overtaking, then in Italy stap me, but the rookie gave him such a lesson on how to overtake, and not for the first time this season.
You are wrong.The Ferrari was not illegal in Australia.
The law said that the floor had to withstand a certain force and it did.
When the FIA found out (because of McLaren's illegal industrial espionage)they changed the interpretation of the laws. So Ferrari changed their design.
Because the floor was totally legal at the time it was used there was no penalty for it's use.
Exactly the same thing happened with mass dampers. The FIA changed their interpretation.
And with the illegal Michelin tyres. The FIA changed their interpretation.
This is the whole thing about laws, they have to be interpreted according to the situation.
spectatorsam said:
Kimi holds everyone in contempt. So many people thought it was great when he told Brundle he was having a shit, but Kimi knew he was on live tv and he knew what he was doing. What he was doing was telling Brundle to " off, and take your numpty telly viewers with you!"
didn't get that impression myself, there is a wry smile on his face as he says it more to do with who tf is schumacher anyway don't care for him and I aint going to clap for him.
he does seem a bit of a bore but to be honest he could be a screeming homosexual with a Laama for a wife, in his private life, I only care about what goes on , on the track
Kimi and wife: off, and take your numpty telly viewers with you!"didn't get that impression myself, there is a wry smile on his face as he says it more to do with who tf is schumacher anyway don't care for him and I aint going to clap for him.
he does seem a bit of a bore but to be honest he could be a screeming homosexual with a Laama for a wife, in his private life, I only care about what goes on , on the track
And far from being a bore he has a very interesting, exciting and sometimes controversial life outside F1. It is the other drivers that are boring in comparison.
[quote=5.0%]
You are wrong.
The Ferrari was not illegal in Australia.
The law said that the floor had to withstand a certain force and it did.
When the FIA found out (because of McLaren's illegal industrial espionage)they changed the interpretation of the laws. So Ferrari changed their design.
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Funnily enough, I've argued this (that the ferrari was legal)for some time, but i was told i was wrong then too. Which way is it?
In your post you say 2When the FIA found out". Found out what though? That the floor was legal? So why change anything.
I've been persuaded that the floor wasn't legal. Flemke seemed to know quite a bit about it. I think its the floor issue that Ferrari were so angry about. McLaren 'found out' about the floor (though like i say, what did they find?) by thie having a document which they shouldn't have had. So presumably, the floor would have stayed had McLaren not discovered it.
When the floor was discussed before, i was persuaded that the floor was very much illegal, and was illegal by intent, unlike the mass dampers or michelin tyre.
Funnily enough, this is the first time i've said that the floor was illegal, and i get told i'm wrong. Its been stated a lot here on PH that it was illegal.
Still puzzled what the FIA could have found out that was a problem, if it conformed to the rules.
You are wrong.
The Ferrari was not illegal in Australia.
The law said that the floor had to withstand a certain force and it did.
When the FIA found out (because of McLaren's illegal industrial espionage)they changed the interpretation of the laws. So Ferrari changed their design.
[/quote]
Funnily enough, I've argued this (that the ferrari was legal)for some time, but i was told i was wrong then too. Which way is it?
In your post you say 2When the FIA found out". Found out what though? That the floor was legal? So why change anything.
I've been persuaded that the floor wasn't legal. Flemke seemed to know quite a bit about it. I think its the floor issue that Ferrari were so angry about. McLaren 'found out' about the floor (though like i say, what did they find?) by thie having a document which they shouldn't have had. So presumably, the floor would have stayed had McLaren not discovered it.
When the floor was discussed before, i was persuaded that the floor was very much illegal, and was illegal by intent, unlike the mass dampers or michelin tyre.
Funnily enough, this is the first time i've said that the floor was illegal, and i get told i'm wrong. Its been stated a lot here on PH that it was illegal.
Still puzzled what the FIA could have found out that was a problem, if it conformed to the rules.
Edited by Heebeegeetee on Friday 12th October 16:29
spectatorsam said:
I only care about what goes on , on the track
Same here. I'm very surprised at how many peopel have posted on PH that they want to see Alonso sidelined for next season. In other words, they want to see a great racer taken out of the equation. Such is the cult of personality/celebrity that people have forgotten why they're watching.[quote=5.0%]
Kimi and wife:
I have to say, I did think Hamiltons drive at China was very Kimi-like, ie drive really fast until it ends up in the gravel. keep going even though your tyres have clearly had enough, etc. It may cost Hamilton the championship, just as that style of driving has cost Kimi.
The Jan 2007 edirtion of Motorsport had a survey of the top 50 fastest drivers in F1, using a formula derived from percentages, of qualifying against team mate, pole ratio and fastest lap ratio. Kimi was 13th, Alonso 8th,Fangio 6th, Schumi second and Senna first. I'll agree it was a bit flawed though. Kimis figures seem average, but fangio's figures are very high. Sennas is skewed by his high pole ratio (40%) but his fastest lap is low (12%. Kimi is at 18%). I always thought Senna set too much on qualifying, which was how Prost was able to beat him so often 'cos he'd spent more time on his race settings. Prost's fastest lap ratio is much higher than Sennas.
Gilles Villeneuve stands out (11th). Most drivers in the survey have a fastest lap ratio figure that is lower than their pole ratio. Kimis is higher though. GV's fastest lap figure is four times greater than his pole figure, the only driver to achieve anything like that.
Mind you, Sennas ratio of out quallying his team mate is more impressive when you remember he had Prost for two years. Prost was no Coulthard or Fisichella.
Edited by Heebeegeetee on Friday 12th October 16:53
This is my first post in motorsport, and I can't believe that any f1 fans can seriously say that LH has devalued this years championship because he might win the title at the first attempt.In my opinion it makes his achievment even more astounding, and shows how overated and overpaid the other so-called top drivers are.Think about it,if you were Ron Dennis paying £10 million a year for FA to win you a WDC, then find a young pup and pay him say 500k a year to play a supporting role,only to find said young pup drives just as fast but more consistently,what would you do next season?
I would say LH is showing all the Team managers that they don't really need experienced(ie:expensive)drivers,but they do need young,talented,hungry athletes who can come in to an F1 car and breathe new life into an old boys club.
I would say LH is showing all the Team managers that they don't really need experienced(ie:expensive)drivers,but they do need young,talented,hungry athletes who can come in to an F1 car and breathe new life into an old boys club.
andyhaase1 said:
This is my first post in motorsport, and I can't believe that any f1 fans can seriously say that LH has devalued this years championship because he might win the title at the first attempt.In my opinion it makes his achievment even more astounding, and shows how overated and overpaid the other so-called top drivers are.Think about it,if you were Ron Dennis paying £10 million a year for FA to win you a WDC, then find a young pup and pay him say 500k a year to play a supporting role,only to find said young pup drives just as fast but more consistently,what would you do next season?
I would say LH is showing all the Team managers that they don't really need experienced(ie:expensive)drivers,but they do need young,talented,hungry athletes who can come in to an F1 car and breathe new life into an old boys club.
Surely that is devaluing the formula; 10 million is greater than 500k?! I would say LH is showing all the Team managers that they don't really need experienced(ie:expensive)drivers,but they do need young,talented,hungry athletes who can come in to an F1 car and breathe new life into an old boys club.
It doesn't take anything away from Lewis' acheivements, only my (and other's) perception of the acheivements and performance of the current F1 drivers.
I don't believe that the spying rubbish has had any tangible affect on the season (apart from the stresses and rulings of the FIA), but I do see how this year would be a 'bad' year to win, as some would always bring these things up to put you down.
The thing is, no matter what actually happens in the final race and whether Lewis wins or not, the facts will always show that a rookie was leading the championship going into the final round of the season having lead most of it, and has arguably driven better than anyone else this season.
Surely to those that think the championship would be devalued with him winning it, then its already been devalued by the fact that he's got to that point to start with (and only lost by a handful of points to one of two drivers considered the fastest on the planet) and isn't 50 points behind his team-mate having had half a dozen DNFs / poor races as would be expected of your average rookie. Whether he wins or loses one race in Brazil can't be the deciding factor in that!
Surely to those that think the championship would be devalued with him winning it, then its already been devalued by the fact that he's got to that point to start with (and only lost by a handful of points to one of two drivers considered the fastest on the planet) and isn't 50 points behind his team-mate having had half a dozen DNFs / poor races as would be expected of your average rookie. Whether he wins or loses one race in Brazil can't be the deciding factor in that!
I would say LH is showing all the Team managers that they don't really need experienced(ie:expensive)drivers,but they do need young,talented,hungry athletes who can come in to an F1 car and breathe new life into an old boys club.
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I think I know what you mean but be under no illusion that LH is inexperienced. he has been racing all his life, most of it bankrole dby one of the leading lights in WORLD MOTORSPORT!!! thats the problem I and probably many others have with LH. ie who and how many other kids could have shone in the way Lewis has , given that level of support.
I take nothing away from him coz he still has to cut it at the wheel, big team or no big team, and few could say that he doesn't cut it, in fact he is very senna like ie making the most of the first few laps, basicly love him or hate him ( cant decide which even now) you have to admit he has talent and deserves to be in F1 but he should have demanded tyres come in and won the title, he wont now this year.
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I think I know what you mean but be under no illusion that LH is inexperienced. he has been racing all his life, most of it bankrole dby one of the leading lights in WORLD MOTORSPORT!!! thats the problem I and probably many others have with LH. ie who and how many other kids could have shone in the way Lewis has , given that level of support.
I take nothing away from him coz he still has to cut it at the wheel, big team or no big team, and few could say that he doesn't cut it, in fact he is very senna like ie making the most of the first few laps, basicly love him or hate him ( cant decide which even now) you have to admit he has talent and deserves to be in F1 but he should have demanded tyres come in and won the title, he wont now this year.
A lot is made of how Lewis has had the best of everything which is used to downplay his achievements somewhat, but how many other drivers do you think have had the same support as Hamilton in the early stages of their career, but have failed to shine enough to retain it? The answer is loads!
Lewis may have been lucky (as wel as gifted enough) to attract the attention of Mclaren at an early age to start with, but he's by no means the only one to be noticed like that and supported, there's been plenty of others that Mclaren alone have sponsored at various stages in their careers and if they'd consistently shown as much promise / talent as Lewis they'd be in his position now, but they didnt and they aren't. Nothing should be taken away from Lewis's achievements just because he's been good enough to maintain Mclaren sponsorship throughout his career.
Lewis may have been lucky (as wel as gifted enough) to attract the attention of Mclaren at an early age to start with, but he's by no means the only one to be noticed like that and supported, there's been plenty of others that Mclaren alone have sponsored at various stages in their careers and if they'd consistently shown as much promise / talent as Lewis they'd be in his position now, but they didnt and they aren't. Nothing should be taken away from Lewis's achievements just because he's been good enough to maintain Mclaren sponsorship throughout his career.
Edited by LocoBlade on Friday 12th October 22:06
Schumacher had support from a very early age, his parents owned the Kart track he spent many more thousands of hours on than his rivals. He was then supported via Mercedes through their driver programs including the GroupC team until his manager, Willie Weber paid for his first F1 start at Jordan. He was then scooped up by Benetton and signed to a deal that would build their F1 team around him.
Look at Kimi, he came straight from F3, Vettel is just out of nappies yet gets into an F1 car with a manufacturers money behind him. Senna had money behind him to bring him to Europe. They all have some form of financial backing to get them the oportunities to shine. Nature of the beast and it's absurd to single out Lewis because the person who helped support him happens to be Ron Dennis. What about all the drivers Flavio supports financially, why not go on about them too?
Look at Kimi, he came straight from F3, Vettel is just out of nappies yet gets into an F1 car with a manufacturers money behind him. Senna had money behind him to bring him to Europe. They all have some form of financial backing to get them the oportunities to shine. Nature of the beast and it's absurd to single out Lewis because the person who helped support him happens to be Ron Dennis. What about all the drivers Flavio supports financially, why not go on about them too?
no question that without cash there is no career
Schumacher is an interesting case ie you cant blame his dad for owning a kart circuit, what was MS meant to do? marshaling (pedants need not reply)
I do not be grudge any driver a leg up from their parents, because god knows, if my old man was loaded then I would have relieved him of as much as I could to go racing.
no this is about the exceptional situation we find the 9 year old LH in
Schumacher is an interesting case ie you cant blame his dad for owning a kart circuit, what was MS meant to do? marshaling (pedants need not reply)
I do not be grudge any driver a leg up from their parents, because god knows, if my old man was loaded then I would have relieved him of as much as I could to go racing.
no this is about the exceptional situation we find the 9 year old LH in
I think there are a number of points in this (and it's going off topic)
There are very many very talented drivers who's careers stall around FFord, FRenault or F3 because of a lack of finances....Marc Hynes is a great example of this (google if you're not old enough).
BUT that doesn't mean that those that make it only do so because of the money behind them. it takes talent and money, neither of the Mansell boys is doing incredibly well even with daddy's backing.
There are very many very talented drivers who's careers stall around FFord, FRenault or F3 because of a lack of finances....Marc Hynes is a great example of this (google if you're not old enough).
BUT that doesn't mean that those that make it only do so because of the money behind them. it takes talent and money, neither of the Mansell boys is doing incredibly well even with daddy's backing.
spectatorsam said:
...thats the problem I and probably many others have with LH. ie who and how many other kids could have shone in the way Lewis has , given that level of support. ...
Coming over as having more than a little of the green eyed monster there End of the day, life's a bitch. Every walk of life this sort of thing happens. It's about who you know. It's about being in the right place at the right time. And when those things happen, it's about the talent and desire in order for it all to fall into place.
Had heard of Lewis a while back, but it hit home how good he is for motorsport at last year's Brit GP. He was in GP2, and the way he drove that race was astounding (not just for long standing motorsport fans - the other half, at her first GP, thought it was amazing!). There were a few others that day that had fire in them too.
This is what F1 needs, and whether he's a lucky SOB in being where he is, we shouldn't care too much. He's a racer. And at the moment he seems to care more about racing and winning than he does about the money and having boos. Has to be a good thing.
JP_Midget said:
mattikake said:
Agree with JP Midget. If LH can enter F1 and win the WDC at the first attempt I think it will devalue the sport somewhat. But then if he's good enough... He's certainly been the most consistent class of the field, his results tell you that, so I guess he would be the most deserving. And yuio know he's yet to get the hang of the sport - it should take a few years for anyone - so there will be more to come.
It seems like there may be too much controversy over LH winning though, but then the same could go for any of the 3, for various reasons.
Even as a patriotic Brit I would have no problem with KR winning the WDC this year. I could kinda be a bit of a lucky one, but he's well well overdue. Maybe we'd actually get to see him smile as well? I think LH needs to know what it's like to come close before actually winning it too. It would kinda make more of a man out of him (though that didn't work for Damon Hill! lol)
Just as long as that moaning baby FA doesn't win it! The new hated F1 driver for me. always need one to hate. Makes for far more entertainment.
Devalues is exactly the right word. In my opinion there should be no way someone can get the experience to win the title outside of F1 (esp. as they try to tout it as the pinnacle of motorsport) and walk straight into the sport to lead the championship almost since day-one, and in the same car as the reigning double world champion too.It seems like there may be too much controversy over LH winning though, but then the same could go for any of the 3, for various reasons.
Even as a patriotic Brit I would have no problem with KR winning the WDC this year. I could kinda be a bit of a lucky one, but he's well well overdue. Maybe we'd actually get to see him smile as well? I think LH needs to know what it's like to come close before actually winning it too. It would kinda make more of a man out of him (though that didn't work for Damon Hill! lol)
Just as long as that moaning baby FA doesn't win it! The new hated F1 driver for me. always need one to hate. Makes for far more entertainment.
I'll still cheer if Lewis does win, but if I was in his position it would make me start to consider other challenges elsewhere (although the seemingly big commitment and loyalty to Ron might go some way in avoiding this).
However, I to would prefer to see KR win over alfonso, it is just a shame KR has to drive for Ferrari, I don't want them to have the satisfaction of winning the constructors and drivers title, and letting them know they have better lawyers then McLaren.
My thoughts exactly...
Kimi had the simple job too - win.
You could almost see Hamilton on the first 3-4 corners before he slid off thinking "race-title-corner which do I want to win" until he decided on none of them going into turn 4!
Bit of entirely excusable inexperience I think. Raikonnen definitely a deserving champion though
Kimi had the simple job too - win.
You could almost see Hamilton on the first 3-4 corners before he slid off thinking "race-title-corner which do I want to win" until he decided on none of them going into turn 4!
Bit of entirely excusable inexperience I think. Raikonnen definitely a deserving champion though
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