RE: Plato v Giovanardi

[rubystone]

GF350 said:

Fallen Angel said:

Sorry.. but I just don't get this.. at the end of the second race when interviewing Neal, he said that there were only two people in the race and that that was the main thing... I thought initamting that he would back of both Giovanardi and Plato and let them get on with it...

and then he had to go and do what he did...

Neal has gone down in my estimation.

It may be that Giovanardi is the best out there and deserved the win but I still think that he would have preferred to win the title by fair play without the interference of Neal...

What are you talking about?
Matt Neal was being very fair up to the point that Plato tried to punt him off yet again.
He let the vectra's through as soon as they got close enough that he was in the way.
He 'may' have done the same to Plato if he hadn't come from way back and used him as a late braking device.
Typical plato move, as usual followed by blaming everyone else.
I honestly think this is why Plato hasn't won the championship for the last few years.
He upsets all the other drivers with the dirty moves then they all get him back at some point.
Still makes for good viewing.
I did think Matt Neal was very sensible though, it must have been tempting to give him some of his own medicine back.
He didn't do him any favours which was enough to stop him punting Giovanardi off and winning.
He wasn't going to win it fairly after that start and to be fair he still probably did enough to get disqualified as it was.
Plus theres no reason why Matt Neal should let Jason Plato past if he doesn't want to, maybe you would have preferred if all the other drivers had been excluded to make it a 2 car race?
If the roumours of him driving for vauxhall next year are true I think thats fair enough helping your new team. No different to the engine partners in F1.

Riiiiighttttttt - I guess you must have missed the bloody big waves he gave to Giovanardi and Chilton then? Shame dumb Kravitz didn't ask Gio why Neal waved him through

[mattsayle]

Plato is a nice bloke i met him at Oulton park and he had time to chat to me even tho though it was pitlane walkabout and there was loadz of people.

Edited by mattsayle on Sunday 14th October 21:10

[RB Will]

Adrian W said:

RB Will said:

car that burns were from was a Caparo. im so happy to see Gio win it. Bloody hate Plato mostly for reasons stated. wish Neal had punted him back though. Wish they had interviewed him after the race on the telly would love to hear what he has to say. think its pretty safe to assume plato was upset with neal being the "4th vauxhall" lol bless him. sorry i sound harsh just hate the guy. just a dirty racer who throws toys out of pram if he is not treated like a princess.

You "hate him" so you know him very well and have met him many times and haveing known him for some time you have decided that you hate him. Don't think i could hate or love someone i've never met

have met had conversation with found him to be an arrogant arse so formed a bit of a dislike for the guy esecially when accompanied with his driving antics. didnt know there was a cartain time you had to know someone to decide you hate them? doubt most people in WW2 met Hitler still im sure general opinion was that he was a bit of an arse. or maybe hate was just too strong a word, i dislike him, that any better?

[Rob Dance]

RB Will said:

Adrian W said:

RB Will said:

car that burns were from was a Caparo. im so happy to see Gio win it. Bloody hate Plato mostly for reasons stated. wish Neal had punted him back though. Wish they had interviewed him after the race on the telly would love to hear what he has to say. think its pretty safe to assume plato was upset with neal being the "4th vauxhall" lol bless him. sorry i sound harsh just hate the guy. just a dirty racer who throws toys out of pram if he is not treated like a princess.

You "hate him" so you know him very well and have met him many times and haveing known him for some time you have decided that you hate him. Don't think i could hate or love someone i've never met

have met had conversation with found him to be an arrogant arse so formed a bit of a dislike for the guy esecially when accompanied with his driving antics. didnt know there was a cartain time you had to know someone to decide you hate them? doubt most people in WW2 met Hitler still im sure general opinion was that he was a bit of an arse. or maybe hate was just too strong a word, i dislike him, that any better?

Interesting you should mention Hitler - there is a link - ( both Hitler and Plato came second )

[deadslow]

GF350 said:

deadslow said:

GF350 said:

I did think Matt Neal was very sensible though, it must have been tempting to give him some of his own medicine back.

If the roumours of him driving for vauxhall next year are true I think thats fair enough helping your new team. No different to the engine partners in F1.

Very sad person.

Whats the deal with insulting me, come on argue your case or just leave it alone.

The general consensus seems to be that Neal's behaviour was unsporting, petty, and too 'obvious'. It's a shame if you can't see that.

Your private message to me on this topic is pathetic.

[smiller]

I've not watched BTCC for a few years, but I happened upon today's race by accident on telly, looked at the championship standings and thought, "Hm. This could be interesting".

Well. I thought the races were top boocks, and that JP showed tremendous spirit considering the injuries he was carrying. Fair play to the lad, especially considering the advantage that the Vectra's seemed to have 'round the circuit.

Talking of which, I was confused by one of the ITV commentators stating that, "Thruxton is a great circuit to spectate at". Errrrrrmmmmmm. I think not. I've been once for a BSB meeting, and thought it was pants. Number of spectating areas = chicane, start/finish, campbell, cobb, seagrave. All the fast corners 'round the back of the circuit (i.e. Church / Woodham Hill) are off limits.

[EDLT]

GF350 said:

If the roumours of him driving for vauxhall next year are true I think thats fair enough helping your new team. No different to the engine partners in F1.

If that happened so blatantly in F1 there would have been fines and possibly bans for all involved for bringing the sport into disrepute.

[CampDavid]

EDLT said:

GF350 said:

If the roumours of him driving for vauxhall next year are true I think thats fair enough helping your new team. No different to the engine partners in F1.

If that happened so blatantly in F1 there would have been fines and possibly bans for all involved for bringing the sport into disrepute.

Yup, Williams/McLaren were investigated for this in 1997 when Villeneauve let Hak and Coulthard by to save his car at the end in Jerez, the organisers were concerned that there had been cohesion between the drivers of a different team. As it was, Jacques car wasn't in tip top condition and he let them by, rightly only bothered about winning the title.

Regardless of which way you look at it, Neal was unproffesional and attempted to fix the championship result. Frankly he should be investigated. He was in a position to influence a race and make a lot out of it in gambling circles. If he did all that just to settle a score or impress his fiture bosses he's a ing moron

[Fallen Angel]

GF350 said:

Fallen Angel said:

Sorry.. but I just don't get this.. at the end of the second race when interviewing Neal, he said that there were only two people in the race and that that was the main thing... I thought initamting that he would back of both Giovanardi and Plato and let them get on with it...

and then he had to go and do what he did...

Neal has gone down in my estimation.

It may be that Giovanardi is the best out there and deserved the win but I still think that he would have preferred to win the title by fair play without the interference of Neal...

What are you talking about?
Matt Neal was being very fair up to the point that Plato tried to punt him off yet again.
He let the vectra's through as soon as they got close enough that he was in the way.
He 'may' have done the same to Plato if he hadn't come from way back and used him as a late braking device.
Typical plato move, as usual followed by blaming everyone else.
I honestly think this is why Plato hasn't won the championship for the last few years.
He upsets all the other drivers with the dirty moves then they all get him back at some point.
Still makes for good viewing.
I did think Matt Neal was very sensible though, it must have been tempting to give him some of his own medicine back.
He didn't do him any favours which was enough to stop him punting Giovanardi off and winning.
He wasn't going to win it fairly after that start and to be fair he still probably did enough to get disqualified as it was.
Plus theres no reason why Matt Neal should let Jason Plato past if he doesn't want to, maybe you would have preferred if all the other drivers had been excluded to make it a 2 car race?
If the roumours of him driving for vauxhall next year are true I think thats fair enough helping your new team. No different to the engine partners in F1.

I agree to a point.. and I do say that Givonardi was the better driver on the day (8 titles in total now) but... I just don't think it was "fair" that Neal let through the Vauxhalls and then went out of his way "not" for Seat.

Yes I know that you do everything to win the race but FFS (and I hate swearing) Neal was not in the running...

And, I would think Neal's ride for Vauxhall next year stands a much better chance of coming to fruition with his show yesterday

Mind you... would have have interesting to see what would have happened to Plato had he have won... disqualification etc.

S'pose same could be said for Alonso -v- Hamilton

[rubystone]

Gareth, I've been a fan of Matt Neal since his underdog days and I'm fully aware that neither he nor Plato are saints on track. Frankly, that's what makes them interesting to me. But what has irritated me about yesterday was Neal's decision to get involved,despite his having said in his interview that he wanted to win for his team and sponsors, but in a clean way.

What does he then do? Sacrifice a podium position and potential win (his car was the fastest out there in the later laps of that race) to spoil Plato's chances. I can't believe his father was happy about his actions, nor Halfords.

[Fallen Angel]

GF350 said:

Fallen Angel said:

GF350 said:

Fallen Angel said:

Sorry.. but I just don't get this.. at the end of the second race when interviewing Neal, he said that there were only two people in the race and that that was the main thing... I thought initamting that he would back of both Giovanardi and Plato and let them get on with it...

and then he had to go and do what he did...

Neal has gone down in my estimation.

It may be that Giovanardi is the best out there and deserved the win but I still think that he would have preferred to win the title by fair play without the interference of Neal...

What are you talking about?
Matt Neal was being very fair up to the point that Plato tried to punt him off yet again.
He let the vectra's through as soon as they got close enough that he was in the way.
He 'may' have done the same to Plato if he hadn't come from way back and used him as a late braking device.
Typical plato move, as usual followed by blaming everyone else.
I honestly think this is why Plato hasn't won the championship for the last few years.
He upsets all the other drivers with the dirty moves then they all get him back at some point.
Still makes for good viewing.
I did think Matt Neal was very sensible though, it must have been tempting to give him some of his own medicine back.
He didn't do him any favours which was enough to stop him punting Giovanardi off and winning.
He wasn't going to win it fairly after that start and to be fair he still probably did enough to get disqualified as it was.
Plus theres no reason why Matt Neal should let Jason Plato past if he doesn't want to, maybe you would have preferred if all the other drivers had been excluded to make it a 2 car race?
If the roumours of him driving for vauxhall next year are true I think thats fair enough helping your new team. No different to the engine partners in F1.

I agree to a point.. and I do say that Givonardi was the better driver on the day (8 titles in total now) but... I just don't think it was "fair" that Neal let through the Vauxhalls and then went out of his way "not" for Seat.

Yes I know that you do everything to win the race but FFS (and I hate swearing) Neal was not in the running...

And, I would think Neal's ride for Vauxhall next year stands a much better chance of coming to fruition with his show yesterday

Mind you... would have have interesting to see what would have happened to Plato had he have won... disqualification etc.

S'pose same could be said for Alonso -v- Hamilton

Good point, still I can understand what Matt Neal was doing, I still think he MAY have waved Plato past after holding him up for a couple of laps but he didn't get the chance.
He didn't let Chitlon through strait away by any means, only when he got closer.
To be fair I think Plato didn't look that close to him during that part of the race anyway so I don't think he was holding him up much.
Plato only got past him by braking very late and using Neals car to get round the corner (as I saw it).
He did have a bit of a race with Plato after that but, I didn't see any un fair moves.
Still, very exciting race weekend though, made for very good viewing.

http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id...

Looks like it's official now as well, Neal will join Vauxhall for 2008.
So it looks like there was some element of helping out his new team mate!

It is official now...

Next year will be interesting... could it be another Hamilton -v- Alonso? Two very strong characters with the same gaol in mind... team or no team... it does make for exciting viewing and a very emotive one for fans I think

---

Hell.. if I can't shout at my TV who can I shout at

Hmmmm.... we shall see what develops

[jellison]

GF350 said:

rubystone said:

Gareth, I've been a fan of Matt Neal since his underdog days and I'm fully aware that neither he nor Plato are saints on track. Frankly, that's what makes them interesting to me. But what has irritated me about yesterday was Neal's decision to get involved,despite his having said in his interview that he wanted to win for his team and sponsors, but in a clean way.

What does he then do? Sacrifice a podium position and potential win (his car was the fastest out there in the later laps of that race) to spoil Plato's chances. I can't believe his father was happy about his actions, nor Halfords.

Your right, I'm not sure why he would have let Chilton through other than help his new team and get into a battle with Plato.
Still, I'll be chearing him on next year.

Indeed Chilton is never going tp pass on his own!

[Tony*T3]

Was at Thruxton yesterday. the last race was effectivly ruined by 2 main points:

- why were there extra drivers in the last race ?

- why did Neal think he should have any influence on the race ?

Neither were needed and both affected a whole years worth of racing results.

Unfortunalty Thruxton is the worst possible curcuit to have choosen for this kind of 'dicking around' with a championship.

Even Gio will never truely know if he was a worthy winner, as quite frankly the result was affected by others influence when it need not have been. i'm sure he would have prefferred to win the championship without any hint of unfair practice.

As a fan of Plato, I'm happy to say that the Vauxhall driver always looked like he would win on the day. But who knows what the result could have been without the intervention of these spurious other factors?

I personally felt cheated of a proper result yesterday. Which isnt a good feeling as a paying customer of BTCC

Edited by Tony*T3 on Monday 15th October 10:13

[toppstuff]

It's easy to villify Plato because of his aggression but I think this misses the point.


Here we are all talking about it. This is good for touring cars - the sport needs drivers like Plato. Some of the others are pretty dull, cut and paste characters.

Matt Neal was an arse yesterday. But Giovanardi won fair and square and the best car won.

[sosidge]

Well from seeing the last leg yesterday Giovanardi had it in the bag from the grid regardless of Neal's intervention. He had a buffer called Chilton as well, and Plato was not on the pace in open racing.

I think the Plato fans are being a bit sneaky here and blaming Neal for everything to try and switch the focus from Plato's filthy driving in the last two races (and it was filthy, trying to punt Gio off in race 2, cutting the course and trying to punt Neal and Chilton off in Race 3).

I sometimes wonder why people think full contact is somehow acceptable driving in Touring Cars? Just because the cars have bumpers and enclosed bodywork doesn't mean it should to be used to make a pass.

If you want full contact go to the banger meetings at your local oval.

I'll say it again, congratulations to Giovanardi, the classy racer won.

[npope]

I am a Plato fan but I will agree the best man won yesterday, what pissed me off was Neal his is way out of order but as I say I am a Plato fan.

What will be interesting is when Ferrari help Alonso win at the weekend will all the people backing Neal up back Ferrari I think not you will all be after Ferrari's head. So could Alonso be the 3rd Ferrari lets hope so unless KR has a chance because (I like to throw all my toys out my pram) Hamilton goes off.

Anyway back to this thread well done Gio...

[mark69sheer]

Its wrong to suggest Neal actions made no difference.

If Neal hadn't let them past then Plato would have been able to keep up with the Vauxhalls since he had the pace to stay with neal.
What Neal did was wrong and unsporting.
However I would not like to have been in Neals shoes.
If he had stayed at the front Plato would have been in a good position to overtake the Vauxhalls under braking.
Neal knew this was a possibility so let the vauxhalls past so they weren't bunched behind him and within platos grasp.
If he had let Plato past too then there could have been no complaint but to start letting the Vauxhalls ease away whilst defending against Plato . . no wonder Plato gave him a nerf out of the way.

It was bad sportmanship by a bitter , jealous , arrogant rival.

and Poor value for Halfords sponsor money.

[sosidge]

mark69sheer said:

If Neal hadn't let them past then Plato would have been able to keep up with the Vauxhalls since he had the pace to stay with neal.

Neal or no Neal Plato was slipping back from the Vauxhalls (clear air around the fast back section) until he cut the chicane to gain a 0.9secs + momentum into the start/finish straight.

You can't say that cutting the track is fair. If he hadn't he wouldn't have caught the Neal/Chilton group until the Turkington spin, and then he would still have been further back.

Plato was indubitably in the wrong (cutting the track to gain an advantage, regardless of what you say about the various contact incidents). Neal may have been unsporting but I am not sure whether it is against the rules.

Vauxhall stuck to the rules and won the title with arguably the best driver in the field. Can't say fairer than that.

[mark69sheer]

Plato took a risk both with his car (damage)

and with the C of C (rules)

If plato had chopped the chicane one more time he would have been DQ'd I'm sure.

I will watch the rerun of the race and see if Neals actions did disadvantage Plato.

I honestly think they would have as with Neal in a slower car(remember it was a revers grid start) in front the Vauxhalls they couldn't have pulled the gap they did.

[rubystone]

mark69sheer said:

Plato took a risk both with his car (damage)

and with the C of C (rules)

If plato had chopped the chicane one more time he would have been DQ'd I'm sure.

I will watch the rerun of the race and see if Neals actions did disadvantage Plato.

I honestly think they would have as with Neal in a slower car(remember it was a revers grid start) in front the Vauxhalls they couldn't have pulled the gap they did.

In the first 2 races, the VX clearly used its tyres harder and thus its pace slowed over the final 1/3rd of the race. Neal's actions effectively held Plalo back from closing the gap in the middle of the race to the level where he could then challenge the VX over the crucial final 1/3rd of the race. Neal denied us (and Plato) this opportunity.