EERC DATES AND REGS
Discussion
ProductionS1/ Britsports and Britcar 2008 regs and Dates
The Regs and Dates for the EERC'S CHAMPIONSHIPS 2008
The dates and regs are finished, now they need to be passed by the MSA, this prossess can take forever,
so Claire, David and I have decide to launch next season's ideas to you now.
We have worked hard and have tried to bring the idea's given to us by the drivers and managers to this year's proposal.
There is something for all, a 993 could race in PS1, Sports or Britcar.
ProductionS1 has the chance for all to do one or two 50 minute races in a weekend,
but also to do an 8 round Championship or to use all 12 races available including a One off 4 hr race at Spa.,
Class 1 to have a ProductionS1 Super Cup Champion and Class 2/3 a ProductionS1 Touring Cup Champion with an overall Production Amateur Driver Champion marking the end of the season.
This is the first time the EERC has seen the Team Championship and a Drivers Championship.
Britcar has the same added attractions, but also the Regs this year will be enforced by the MSA Scruts,
it is something that cannot be left to the system British GT'S use.
Britsports starts a new era with Gt Britcar sportscars battleing with Open LMP2 & LMP4/CN CARS, LMES in the Uk,
this is the future for the EERC bring the place for teams the chance to practice their craft before taking on Le Mans.
The registations start on the 1st November 2007
Any Quiries please call James on 01252834377
and please, please book early
From all of us at the EERC have a safe and enjoyable year.
sportingly
Claire, David and James
The Regs and Dates for the EERC'S CHAMPIONSHIPS 2008
The dates and regs are finished, now they need to be passed by the MSA, this prossess can take forever,
so Claire, David and I have decide to launch next season's ideas to you now.
We have worked hard and have tried to bring the idea's given to us by the drivers and managers to this year's proposal.
There is something for all, a 993 could race in PS1, Sports or Britcar.
ProductionS1 has the chance for all to do one or two 50 minute races in a weekend,
but also to do an 8 round Championship or to use all 12 races available including a One off 4 hr race at Spa.,
Class 1 to have a ProductionS1 Super Cup Champion and Class 2/3 a ProductionS1 Touring Cup Champion with an overall Production Amateur Driver Champion marking the end of the season.
This is the first time the EERC has seen the Team Championship and a Drivers Championship.
Britcar has the same added attractions, but also the Regs this year will be enforced by the MSA Scruts,
it is something that cannot be left to the system British GT'S use.
Britsports starts a new era with Gt Britcar sportscars battleing with Open LMP2 & LMP4/CN CARS, LMES in the Uk,
this is the future for the EERC bring the place for teams the chance to practice their craft before taking on Le Mans.
The registations start on the 1st November 2007
Any Quiries please call James on 01252834377
and please, please book early
From all of us at the EERC have a safe and enjoyable year.
sportingly
Claire, David and James
Dates and Circuits look great, as do most of the regulations. Not sure about the idea of EERC selling fuel... depends on the costs 
Big gap between class 1 and 2 in terms of BHP?
Great to have the ability to protest and get suspect cars sent to the dyno, wont be too difficult to spot the cheating if one car is alway quicker on the straight.
Be great if the date from the power loggers was published too.
I hope the EERC realise that if they police the regs, then 90% of competitors will welcome this and the may see other wanting to join in...
Still think it would be good to see the class winning cars stuck on the dyno after each race.
The idea of the 2007 Britcar winners having NUMBER 1 is a great idea!
Big gap between class 1 and 2 in terms of BHP?
Great to have the ability to protest and get suspect cars sent to the dyno, wont be too difficult to spot the cheating if one car is alway quicker on the straight.
Be great if the date from the power loggers was published too.
I hope the EERC realise that if they police the regs, then 90% of competitors will welcome this and the may see other wanting to join in...
Still think it would be good to see the class winning cars stuck on the dyno after each race.
The idea of the 2007 Britcar winners having NUMBER 1 is a great idea!
What is the rational behind the joker?
What is the position regarding refunds if you subscribe for the season but destroy your car after a couple of races and EERC are able to fill the grid slot with another paying customer?
Finally what is the fuel deposit for - why it is required and how it is used?
Many thanks
What is the position regarding refunds if you subscribe for the season but destroy your car after a couple of races and EERC are able to fill the grid slot with another paying customer?
Finally what is the fuel deposit for - why it is required and how it is used?
Many thanks
I like the idea of the joker, it gives the teams/drivers the chance to choose their double points round. Will make it really interesting i think?
If the EERC are going to supply fuel, we are all going to pay for it. We can buy 100 octane for £1 a litre [ish] why would we want to pay anymore than that? We may be running on Bioethanol in 2008 so are they going to supply that?
I guess EERC want a commitment to the 2008 season, they have to make certain commercial commitments so why not the teams/drivers.
Still not convinced that JT will police the regulations and if he really understands what he has to lose in terms of teams leaving the series.
If the EERC are going to supply fuel, we are all going to pay for it. We can buy 100 octane for £1 a litre [ish] why would we want to pay anymore than that? We may be running on Bioethanol in 2008 so are they going to supply that?
I guess EERC want a commitment to the 2008 season, they have to make certain commercial commitments so why not the teams/drivers.
Still not convinced that JT will police the regulations and if he really understands what he has to lose in terms of teams leaving the series.
Bellly said:
I like the idea of the joker, it gives the teams/drivers the chance to choose their double points round. Will make it really interesting i think?
If the EERC are going to supply fuel, we are all going to pay for it. We can buy 100 octane for £1 a litre [ish] why would we want to pay anymore than that? We may be running on Bioethanol in 2008 so are they going to supply that?
I guess EERC want a commitment to the 2008 season, they have to make certain commercial commitments so why not the teams/drivers.
Still not convinced that JT will police the regulations and if he really understands what he has to lose in terms of teams leaving the series.
To me the joker undoes much of the benefit of having dropped rounds. You DNF on your Joker round through no fault of your own and you are buggered in the championship. That was why I asked the question - it doesn't make sense to me to introduce dropped rounds but then add a double points mechanism.If the EERC are going to supply fuel, we are all going to pay for it. We can buy 100 octane for £1 a litre [ish] why would we want to pay anymore than that? We may be running on Bioethanol in 2008 so are they going to supply that?
I guess EERC want a commitment to the 2008 season, they have to make certain commercial commitments so why not the teams/drivers.
Still not convinced that JT will police the regulations and if he really understands what he has to lose in terms of teams leaving the series.
On the fuel the EERC website implies that we all pay a profit margin to fuel companies and if we buy it from EERC then some of that profit can go into the club instead. That's fine (in fact its a bloody good idea) provided we don't end up paying more for our fuel unnecessarily. Also I don't know about you, but I tend not to buy enough fuel for 4-5 races in advance in March each year (although I might if it meant I got it a lot cheaper).
I'm still interested in what happens if a team is forced to withdraw from the championship early on (as opposed to 'we had a couple of bad results so we can't be bothered with the rest of the year') and hopefully someone from the club will clarify the position for us all to see. I understand about the commitment, I just think you need to get the balance right.
Based on 11 races and the ability to drop 3 rounds it will still effectively mean that if you have more than 3 DNF you are f***** for the Championship. Someone will possibly manage 8 class podiums out of 11 so I still recon that it will be a much closer Championship than this year. We managed 4 class wins, 2 seconds and 1 third place and managed to win the championship. If we had the ability to drop our worst rounds in would have meant a closer championship race.
The double points round of your choice will just make the whole thing closer.
EERC is endurance racing and next year there are more 4 hrs races than this year. I still struggle to understand the carnage in the first few laps of long races and the number of DNF within the first 5 minutes of any race.
As for the fuel, I do not see how the teams or drivers will benefit, it will just line the pockets of the EERC, can anyone see JT selling fuel less than it is at the pumps?
Really do not see any benefit to anyone other than the EERC and it costing us more dosh for fuel.
Be interesting to see JT respond to the issue of deposits, the regs state non refundable.
More importantly, what about beer drinking after the race? Sod the regulations…. What about the EERC beer tent. Maybe the fuel margin could go to beer, JD and dancing girls… oh and the hot tub
The double points round of your choice will just make the whole thing closer.
EERC is endurance racing and next year there are more 4 hrs races than this year. I still struggle to understand the carnage in the first few laps of long races and the number of DNF within the first 5 minutes of any race.
As for the fuel, I do not see how the teams or drivers will benefit, it will just line the pockets of the EERC, can anyone see JT selling fuel less than it is at the pumps?
Really do not see any benefit to anyone other than the EERC and it costing us more dosh for fuel.
Be interesting to see JT respond to the issue of deposits, the regs state non refundable.
More importantly, what about beer drinking after the race? Sod the regulations…. What about the EERC beer tent. Maybe the fuel margin could go to beer, JD and dancing girls… oh and the hot tub
lanan said:
I think that the name should be changed to the European Sprint Racing Club.
One 4 hour race per season is not what I would classify an Endurance Championship.
In the regs I downloaded there are 3 x 4 hour races plus a 2.5 hour race and 4 x 2 hour races. Not bad for Endurance racing.One 4 hour race per season is not what I would classify an Endurance Championship.
I think the Joker is a bit of a farce. James mentioned it to me a while ago and I wasn`t sure at the time. I`ve given it a bit of thought and can`t see the reason for it. Are we trying to go racing or are we trying to start a new it`s a knockout TV series?
Don`t you think it`s a bit random. It`s bad enough if you have a bit of drama at a meeting, but if you`ve "played your joker" you`re bolloxed. On the one hand we`re trying to make Britcar a premium race series, with the other we`re turning it into a gameshow. Next we`ll have Michael Barrymore deciding grid positions with a combination of quiz questions generation game esque practical tasks. I`m brushing up on my cake decorating and sugar craft skills just in case.
Re: the fuel. It means we don`t all have to run the gauntlet of carrying large amounts of fuel to a meeting. Given we use churns to refuel cars during the race I`d suggest that in practice teams wishing to "opt out" or use enhanced fuel shouldn`t have too much of a problem. James is probably planing to use the extra revenue to fund his hospitality program. I only hope we don`t end up paying a premium on top of a premium. 99/100 octane is 1.00 to 1.05 at the pumps. If James gets someone on board who`ll do it for that delivered to the circuit in return for publicity and he then wants to put a bit of a margin on top to cover cornish pasties and a pint that`s fine. If he`s getting charged 1.60 to 1.80 a litre and wants to put a margin accross it`s going to be a dear old game. The likes of 76 or sunoco currently sell 99/100 octane fuel but it`s getting on for twice the price of the pumps. Hence why we run fuel courtesy of Mr Shell, BP & the like.
I`ve always thought Britcar would make a good platform for a fuel supplier to promote their premium range products. Shell & BP spend millions trying to persuade Audi & BMW man to spend an extra 5p a litre. We run road based cars that still look like road cars. Use that fact. No one relates an open wheel car to their road car so just because Schumacher runs optimax in his F1 car (which he doesn`t) why would I put it in my nissan 300ZX? Our BMW, Honda, Porsche, TVR, Ferrari etc are pretty much the same as the road versions so someone seeing us good looking boys & girls filling up with a bit of BP premium will be more likely to throw caution to the wind and shell out the extra wedge themselves.
As for the rest of the regs I`m on the boat at the moment so can`t look at them.
Swimmingly - Henry
"The Captain" & "Pugwash Pete" well it`s got a certain ring to it !
Don`t you think it`s a bit random. It`s bad enough if you have a bit of drama at a meeting, but if you`ve "played your joker" you`re bolloxed. On the one hand we`re trying to make Britcar a premium race series, with the other we`re turning it into a gameshow. Next we`ll have Michael Barrymore deciding grid positions with a combination of quiz questions generation game esque practical tasks. I`m brushing up on my cake decorating and sugar craft skills just in case.
Re: the fuel. It means we don`t all have to run the gauntlet of carrying large amounts of fuel to a meeting. Given we use churns to refuel cars during the race I`d suggest that in practice teams wishing to "opt out" or use enhanced fuel shouldn`t have too much of a problem. James is probably planing to use the extra revenue to fund his hospitality program. I only hope we don`t end up paying a premium on top of a premium. 99/100 octane is 1.00 to 1.05 at the pumps. If James gets someone on board who`ll do it for that delivered to the circuit in return for publicity and he then wants to put a bit of a margin on top to cover cornish pasties and a pint that`s fine. If he`s getting charged 1.60 to 1.80 a litre and wants to put a margin accross it`s going to be a dear old game. The likes of 76 or sunoco currently sell 99/100 octane fuel but it`s getting on for twice the price of the pumps. Hence why we run fuel courtesy of Mr Shell, BP & the like.
I`ve always thought Britcar would make a good platform for a fuel supplier to promote their premium range products. Shell & BP spend millions trying to persuade Audi & BMW man to spend an extra 5p a litre. We run road based cars that still look like road cars. Use that fact. No one relates an open wheel car to their road car so just because Schumacher runs optimax in his F1 car (which he doesn`t) why would I put it in my nissan 300ZX? Our BMW, Honda, Porsche, TVR, Ferrari etc are pretty much the same as the road versions so someone seeing us good looking boys & girls filling up with a bit of BP premium will be more likely to throw caution to the wind and shell out the extra wedge themselves.
As for the rest of the regs I`m on the boat at the moment so can`t look at them.
Swimmingly - Henry
"The Captain" & "Pugwash Pete" well it`s got a certain ring to it !
All right so I lied about not being able to see the regs (because I didn`t realise they were on the eerc website !).
A couple of points picked up quickly:
Additional pit stops must be for a minimum of 60 seconds. Surely 60 seconds is only for pit stops that require fuel not all stops (to change a puncture etc).
Fuel has to be eerc`s fuel even for testing, (this was supposed to be the case for the 24 hour race but didn`t work in practice) - I can see chaos as everyone runs round filling their empty cars prior to first test. Are we going to inspect all cars to ensure tanks are dry on arrival at the circuit. (I`m starting to think the mandatory fuel might not work ?).
Protest costs are borne by the losing protester ie the car is clean. Cars that fail - who pays for that test ?
Finally the power weight ratios for each class can be changed at any time during the season
Goodness me I do hope not. That would be rather unfortunate for someone who had spent their money building a car to the regs 
Henry
A couple of points picked up quickly:
Additional pit stops must be for a minimum of 60 seconds. Surely 60 seconds is only for pit stops that require fuel not all stops (to change a puncture etc).
Fuel has to be eerc`s fuel even for testing, (this was supposed to be the case for the 24 hour race but didn`t work in practice) - I can see chaos as everyone runs round filling their empty cars prior to first test. Are we going to inspect all cars to ensure tanks are dry on arrival at the circuit. (I`m starting to think the mandatory fuel might not work ?).
Protest costs are borne by the losing protester ie the car is clean. Cars that fail - who pays for that test ?
Finally the power weight ratios for each class can be changed at any time during the season
Goodness me I do hope not. That would be rather unfortunate for someone who had spent their money building a car to the regs Henry
In my opinion, the regulations are fine. Not perfect but OK. Like most here I don't go much on the idea of a "joker" but the dropped scores are good, the pit stops better (although I dont understand all the times - why have only 2 stops in a 4 hour race when you need 2 in a 2 hour race? Still, its a good effort and we have the PRELIMINARY regs now, before the end of October so I think we need to thank the EERC team for this. Hopefully, they can push them through the MSA and get them ratified quickly. Now, all James needs to do is police these regs.
On the fuel front I really dont think it will work. It is not an easy job to bring thousands of litres of fuel to a circuit and any company doing this will want to be paid. Anders (Sunoco) does a great job and I think his service is excellent - maybe something could be arranged here to benifit all parties. I remember there were a lot of rumours about dirty and poor fuel at the previous 24 hours (was it supplied by Tescos or GreenPower?) and I am suprised the EERC want to be even more involved in what is a pretty specialised field. Still, maybe they can negotiate better prices???
Anyway, so far so good. The EERC team have published regulations on the date they were promised and they seem to be sensible. That bodes well for 2008! Well done to all those who were responsible for the effort!!
Cheers,
Richard.
On the fuel front I really dont think it will work. It is not an easy job to bring thousands of litres of fuel to a circuit and any company doing this will want to be paid. Anders (Sunoco) does a great job and I think his service is excellent - maybe something could be arranged here to benifit all parties. I remember there were a lot of rumours about dirty and poor fuel at the previous 24 hours (was it supplied by Tescos or GreenPower?) and I am suprised the EERC want to be even more involved in what is a pretty specialised field. Still, maybe they can negotiate better prices???
Anyway, so far so good. The EERC team have published regulations on the date they were promised and they seem to be sensible. That bodes well for 2008! Well done to all those who were responsible for the effort!!
Cheers,
Richard.
Bellly said:
Henry, Why are you on your boat at 0250hrs? Has the misses kicked you out?
Some boats have beds on them Belly, oh, and they don`t all have oars either. (Although a couple of decent oars on the boat never hurt anyone).I agree with you Richard, it`s good that the regs are out early, I also like the general tone of them with Britcar "coming of age" and starting to develop their own regs rather than regurgitating someone else`s.
I still think the joker is a bit twee, a special skills competition for team members ? (your lot could cook up some woodland critters, or display some other rural abilities
James is certainly making a rod for his back re: the fuel, not sure it will result in reduced fuel costs though. Obviously we`ll all be running the same (in theory) 99 / 100 octane road legal stuff (which is fine by me - we`ve never bothered with all this rocket fuel nonsense).
Anyway off to tackle the ocean..
Remember "Man on boat with wet feet have big problem and need to call insurer."
Henry
Haven't fully read through the regs as yet, but have to agree that the Joker idea is not one that finds favour, can't see the point of it when paired with the ability to drop your worst round or is it rounds, i.e worst two?
As for fuel etc, I see this as a two fold move, (1) to standardise the fuel used by all and (2) paying for hospitality, lets hope that the surcharge doesn't penalise those who use a lot of fuel or I can see problems ahead, maybe a set charge for hospitality would be fairer ??
As for fuel etc, I see this as a two fold move, (1) to standardise the fuel used by all and (2) paying for hospitality, lets hope that the surcharge doesn't penalise those who use a lot of fuel or I can see problems ahead, maybe a set charge for hospitality would be fairer ??
Rod, agreed about a set charge for hospitality! Our car drinks like a dipsomaniac so I am after the best possible fuel deal and I suspect I can arrange this better myself than go through the EERC. However, we have asked for hospitality and thus we must be aware we need to pay for it. Lets hope it doesn't cost too much.
Cheers,
Richard.
Cheers,
Richard.
2 pit stops of over 2 minutes each for class 1 and class 2 is not a very attractive proposition.
One driver is going to do significantly more time than the other and the pit stops cannot be used strategicaly to balance it. Rather than investing in a GT car we might as well stay with the Honda which could now easilly win outright in a 120 minute race or we could race the GT in something else of course!!
I agree the joker thing is a bit pants as well.
Otherwise it all looks fairly good on the face of it. More reading and thought to do though.
One driver is going to do significantly more time than the other and the pit stops cannot be used strategicaly to balance it. Rather than investing in a GT car we might as well stay with the Honda which could now easilly win outright in a 120 minute race or we could race the GT in something else of course!!
I agree the joker thing is a bit pants as well.
Otherwise it all looks fairly good on the face of it. More reading and thought to do though.
Edited by Simon Mason on Monday 22 October 12:41
Rod - the best 8 results from 11 rounds count, with the joker round counting for double points. It doesn't matter how many rounds you can drop if you DNF on the joker round
Regarding hospitality: the Dutch do not make a separate charge to teams for the basic provision of the facility. Included within the entry fee are two passes for hospitality for the weekend. If you want additional guests to have access then you need to cough up extra per person, which seems absolutely fair - the more you use, the more you pay.
Regarding hospitality: the Dutch do not make a separate charge to teams for the basic provision of the facility. Included within the entry fee are two passes for hospitality for the weekend. If you want additional guests to have access then you need to cough up extra per person, which seems absolutely fair - the more you use, the more you pay.
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