EERC DATES AND REGS

[935]

Simon I agree that it will be very hard for a class 1 car to win outright in a two hour race. We will be stopped for 5 minutes (time for a tea break!!!) thus we are giving away 4 minutes to the Honda. Thats 1 minute every 30 minutes so its a hard job but not impossible. Frankly, I think a class 2 car is more likely to win because they are as fast as class 1 and they stop for 30 seconds less but I guess time will tell. (No pun intended!)

I honestly believe the EERC have come up with their best set of regulations (to date). I'm sure they will need a little tweaking here and there but for me the big question mark still exists over the policing. The regs clearly say they will be policed bythe MSA scrutineers - lets hope they are up to the job!
Cheers,
Richard.

[Simon Mason]

935 said:

Simon I agree that it will be very hard for a class 1 car to win outright in a two hour race. We will be stopped for 5 minutes (time for a tea break!!!) thus we are giving away 4 minutes to the Honda. Thats 1 minute every 30 minutes so its a hard job but not impossible. Frankly, I think a class 2 car is more likely to win because they are as fast as class 1 and they stop for 30 seconds less but I guess time will tell. (No pun intended!)

I honestly believe the EERC have come up with their best set of regulations (to date). I'm sure they will need a little tweaking here and there but for me the big question mark still exists over the policing. The regs clearly say they will be policed bythe MSA scrutineers - lets hope they are up to the job!
Cheers,
Richard.

Richard (using our car as an example) you need to understand that our class 3 Honda is capable of lapping much faster than it does. We only don't because until this pit stop structure there was no chance of anything other than class wins so we did'nt spend on lap times, just reliablity. Now we can very conceivably chase outright wins with some expensive but easy upgrades. But, I don't mind admiting that if I was racing a Porsche (for example) and was beaten to a win by a Honda I would'nt be to happy about it unless we had a few problems.

I also don't think it would look to good for the series outsiders. I mean... "you got beaten a japanese bread van..... don't you race a Dodge Viper??? how does that work.... can't you drive??" "well no its the rules".... "good at excuses you racing drivers!!"

You then know what will happen, the rules will change because the unthinkable inevitable happened and everyone in class 3 will be unhappy because thay can't afford to get anywhere near the pace because we or someone else has moved the goal posts significantly leaving competitors feeling rightly agrieved that they can't be competitive because of the rules.

[Racing Rod]

935 said:

Rod, agreed about a set charge for hospitality! Our car drinks like a dipsomaniac so I am after the best possible fuel deal and I suspect I can arrange this better myself than go through the EERC. However, we have asked for hospitality and thus we must be aware we need to pay for it. Lets hope it doesn't cost too much.
Cheers,
Richard.

Agreed !! but I fear that we could be looking at a surcharge on fuel which if adopted would penalise those who use more fuel if the idea is that the surcharge goes towards hospitality, a fairer way would be a fixed charge in one form or another. The whole fuel thing might be a bridge to far albeit that it would standardise the fuel used by all and thus supposedly equalise the field, personally I'm not fussed if someone wants to use rocket fuel, that up to them, and if it makes their car go faster, so be it, for they will probably pay in reliability terms, action/reaction etc etc.

As Andy Holden states in a later post, the DSC seem to have a very fair system for dealing with the cost of hospitality, I don't know if they have a fuel policy, so I can't comment on the integrity of the DSC's overall costings, Andy will know, I'll ask him.

[Racing Rod]

teamHOLDENracing said:

Rod - the best 8 results from 11 rounds count, with the joker round counting for double points. It doesn't matter how many rounds you can drop if you DNF on the joker round

Regarding hospitality: the Dutch do not make a separate charge to teams for the basic provision of the facility. Included within the entry fee are two passes for hospitality for the weekend. If you want additional guests to have access then you need to cough up extra per person, which seems absolutely fair - the more you use, the more you pay.

So if you do the first 8 rounds and all is well, putting the joker thingy to one side, you could call it quits, unlikely I grant you, but possible. Ummm!

Do DSC have a fuel policy or is it entirely open? I ask this in case they are hiding hospitality costs within ?? If they don't then it's a very good and fair deal and we know that the DSC race fees are about the same in Euros as we pay in £'s except when they race in the UK. I can see the attraction but I like the UK circuits with an occasional weekend at Spa or whatever, but wouldn't like it the other way round.

[teamHOLDENracing]

DSC don't have mandated fuel. 2 hospitality tickets are included in the entry fee, 4 more available at a discount, any others at full price.

I suspect that the surplus on entry fees, Dunlop kick back, extra tickets sold and additional revenue raised from series sponsors and those teams whose sponsors wish to have their branding in the hospitality unit all fund it. But the DSC format of weekend long meetings means hospitality is used more than the Britcar format of all on one day. 45 or 60 minute races isn't what you chaps are after though, is it?

Isn't the answer to have sufficient grid numbers so that the thing (hospitality) is funded out of entry fees? If demand is there, separate classes 1 and 2 from 3 and 4 and you get closer to critical mass

This isn't really about what the Dutch do, its about making Britcar as good as it can be, isn't it?

[Henry-F]

11 rounds (Brands GP a double header & so 2 rounds). 7 rounds to score. 3200.00 deposit to be used for 8 rounds of your choosing within that. All of a sudden we`ve got a championship that doesn`t penalise the odd DNF, that you can compete in and still keep the family happy when they want you to go to Florida in the summer, you can even attend the wife`s brother`s daughter`s wedding. This is going to be a great championship, kept wide open right up to the wire.

However....

I still think the Joker idea is totally naff and adds a chance element to what is otherwise skill based in terms of team & driver. If you have a bad result in your joker round you`re basically knackered regardless of dropped scores because teams who succeed in their joker round will be almost impossible to catch. We`re going to play our joker in the first round and if we do well continue, if we DNF call it a day & look around for places to race dipping in and out as it suits, certainly we`re not going to financially bust our balls to attend as many rounds as possible.

James is trying really hard to create an exciting & fair platform on which to race (and I have to say largely succeeding). I don`t think he realises how much of an effect this joker will have. It is the crux to winning the championship because if you fail having played it there is no other way to catch up, (the Brands Hatch double header being taken - quite rightly - as two seperate rounds).

I don`t mind the fuel in principle but he`s biting off a big chunk in terms of organisation & extra policing to make sure teams don`t have a single drop of fuel in the car when it turns up to a meeting. A problem with the EERC fueling doesn`t bear thinking about if the teams have no fuel of their own on them at a meeting. Personally I`d just leave things as they are fuel-wise and if necessary charge hospitality onto the entry fees if that`s what you want.

What fuel people choose to use is immaterial given we are policing power at the wheels. If someone wants to run rocket fuel that`s fine by me, so long as it doen`t take their power over the class limit. That`s the great thing about power to weight, you save money on engine developement, don`t have to worry about trick fuel, fancy friction free gearboxes, etc, etc.

Definitely upbeat though.

Henry

[thunderbelmont]

What happened to the GT45's? It's all gone missing from the site.. has JT canned it before it germinated?

I was looking at running in it, as are one or two of my fellow "roundy roundy" types in our ASCAR's. We're fairly sure that our cars will last 45mins on a tank of jollop. The only issue we'd have would be tyres. Dunlop don't make NASCAR style / size tyres, so we'd have to run on our Hoosiers.

I feel a short "to the point" phone call with Mr Tucker coming on....

[ngr]

I suspect you will be mixed in the britsports races almost 45 (50Min races)

[kenthardy]

Are ASCARS GT cars?

I thought GT45 was for 'real' GTs only - Porsches etc - like what MSVR are having at Snett this weekend - which is what JT was trying to rival - short GT races no BGT bullshit but not endurance either.

They may be OK under the wider definition of cars eligible for Britcar
but I cant imagine they'd fit in with Britsports?

[ALEC FRANCIS]

I think jt is looking at motorsport and mixing as much as he can, V8's didn't work because of the support he did not get, Britsports is the same with lack of support, so I believe he will mix GT Sports cars with open LM cars, in the 50mins races, making a UK LMES/ALMS. If he can do it, he will keep the prices right and we will see a place for those that cant get into Britcar.

[teamHOLDENracing]

If the product is right then the competitors will come. The V8 series was feeding off too small a potential population and should have been opened up to be a GT sprint series - I suggested that to James at the time. There was nothing like this available and now Haynes has moved in and done exactly that. I think it was an opportunity missed.

[taffyracer]

I don't see why we can;'t combine the whole thing, PS1 wasn't hugely full, britsports grids were non existent, V8's didn't work and I thought 60 odd cars were allowed on track, so personally i'd like to see the faster cars in PS1 mixed with all of the others on track together, would be really exciting for all

[ALEC FRANCIS]

There is a difference between a few races in the winter and a Championship in the summer.
Mr Hayes will find 20 cars is not a success,
Like T cars and Vdev at Angelsey with 9, if you have the money, Mr.P will take it.