Alonso to where? - The definitive post.
Discussion
johnfelstead said:
Riverside said:
I guess it could be compared to Ferrari always having red cars with minimal sponsor logos way, way after it's been abandoned by all other teams. It's just part of the personality of the team.
Marlboro money would have a slight hand in that i would imagine.In return for their enormous annual cheque, Marlboro (Altria) have the livery rights over the entire Ferrari car.
megy said:
Not sure he will be off to Renualt now, not after reading this article here
Another example of Briatore buffoonery to suggest that Dennis should have stood down Alonso for the final three races.The FIA categorically warned McLaren against doing anything that might impair Alonso's title chances vis a vis Hamilton's. Not allowing Alonso to race would seem to fit that description.
flemke said:
In principle that of course is possible, but one struggles to imagine what that might be.
"If you don't release my, the Spanish sponsors will refuse to continue with McLaren"? Doesn't really follow.
"If you don't release me, I'll drive like shit"? As I have said, I can't see Alonso doing that to himself.
I'd agree that McLaren think that they would be a better team without him (assuming that his replacement is at or above a certain level), but I don't think that Ron believes that he has to shift Alonso. There are some advantages to keeping him as a driver (there will be two GPs in Spain next year), so I expect that Ron will only move him if the deal is good.
How about "you've damaged my image, so unless you let me leave, I'll sue your ass off"? "If you don't release my, the Spanish sponsors will refuse to continue with McLaren"? Doesn't really follow.
"If you don't release me, I'll drive like shit"? As I have said, I can't see Alonso doing that to himself.
I'd agree that McLaren think that they would be a better team without him (assuming that his replacement is at or above a certain level), but I don't think that Ron believes that he has to shift Alonso. There are some advantages to keeping him as a driver (there will be two GPs in Spain next year), so I expect that Ron will only move him if the deal is good.
RD did what is good for Mclaren and what is good for McLaren is that Alonso leaves. I think that RD regretted having to make that decision though, given that he knows just how good a driver Alonso is.
castrolcraig said:
AJS- said:
Why would Alonso go to Honda? I'd like to see Button in a McLaren though.
money.......lots of it.Anyway money is only part of the equation for Alonso - he's 26, a multi millionaire and one of the best drivers in the world. What he wants is to win another world championship.
It's a different situation to Schumacher going to Ferrari too, because in 1996 you knew Ferrari would be around 10 years, and had the backing (from Marlboro) and the will to win. Again I wouldn't say the same for Honda. Another expensive year or two of poor results and they will decide enough is enough.
I can't see Ron letting Alonso go to Ferari, it's all ready been stated that the 2008 Mc will be heavily scrutinised for Ferari IP.
Who better could Ferari get than Alonso? He know's exactly what happened at McLaren, and as soon as Ferari let him look at their car he's going to be able to say 'Sure McLaren were looking at doing that...', this will have Ferari running to the stewards every 10 minutes if the McLaren is on pace next season.
My guess is Ron will keep Alonso, hopefully as been mentioned, driving the bus.
Who better could Ferari get than Alonso? He know's exactly what happened at McLaren, and as soon as Ferari let him look at their car he's going to be able to say 'Sure McLaren were looking at doing that...', this will have Ferari running to the stewards every 10 minutes if the McLaren is on pace next season.
My guess is Ron will keep Alonso, hopefully as been mentioned, driving the bus.
In my industry we all sign non-compete clauses. Mine even lists the companies I cannot work for. In reality, these are worth nothing - restrictive practices that if enforced affect my ability to work. The European Court of Human Rights is the ultimate resort for anyone on the receiving end of an employer trying to enforce these.
Surely the same applies for Alonso. If he is kept on the sidelines by McLaren, he could surely argue that his ability to earn money is affected as well as his image being damaged.
In my industry too, beyond "gardening leave", any other attempt to move an employee into a cul de sac can be used by the employee as grounds for constructive dismissal. I wonder whether that applies if Alonso were indeed to be demoted to driving the McLaren bus?
Surely the same applies for Alonso. If he is kept on the sidelines by McLaren, he could surely argue that his ability to earn money is affected as well as his image being damaged.
In my industry too, beyond "gardening leave", any other attempt to move an employee into a cul de sac can be used by the employee as grounds for constructive dismissal. I wonder whether that applies if Alonso were indeed to be demoted to driving the McLaren bus?
rubystone said:
How about "you've damaged my image, so unless you let me leave, I'll sue your ass off"?
RD did what is good for Mclaren and what is good for McLaren is that Alonso leaves. I think that RD regretted having to make that decision though, given that he knows just how good a driver Alonso is.
The angle of "You've damaged my image..." would have no shot, except maybe in a Spanish court, but it wouldn't be tried there.RD did what is good for Mclaren and what is good for McLaren is that Alonso leaves. I think that RD regretted having to make that decision though, given that he knows just how good a driver Alonso is.
It would be one thing if Alonso had been aware that others had exchanged Ferrari IP and he had only been the whistleblower. In the event, however, he himself was one of the three culprits. Were they interested in pursuing it, McLaren would have a strong case that Alonso had damaged their image.
Agreed that Alonso's leaving would be good for McLaren - under most scenarios. There are some, however, under which his staying would be less bad than his leaving would be.
It partly depends on what Ron's other options actually are. If he thought he had another Hamilton available, by which I mean someone who is immensely talented, still developing, a team player and without a big salary, then he wouldn't need to get compensation for Alonso.
Riverside said:
LocoBlade said:
if you're a championship contender it doesnt really pay to have two equally matched drivers of the very highest calibre, all they'll do is simply take points off each other.
Ron is in it for the Constructors Championship first, the Drivers Championship second. Logically the best chance of getting the biggest total points is to have two race winning drivers. This approach falls down when the drivers don't get on & work out their own pecking order. Other teams may enforce the pecking order but McLaren trust the drivers to sort it out, sometimes to their cost.I guess it could be compared to Ferrari always having red cars with minimal sponsor logos way, way after it's been abandoned by all other teams. It's just part of the personality of the team.
Anyway as mentioned if you get the right calibre of driver then you're unlikely to lose very many constructor points at all due to the second driver's performances, and as mentioned, you may in fact gain overall if there's any in-fighting / bravado as there has been with Alonso particularly this season, having a couple of offs trying to keep Lewis at bay (Canada etc) rather than settling for second place.
I reckon Alonso will go back to Renault.
It was a winning partnership before. Flavio has openly said he wants him back and will blatantly give him No1 status. I think part of the reason Alonso left is that at the time it looked like Renault were going to scale back their F1 effort or even pull out altogether; this has since changed I believe.
I can't see Ferrari being particularly attractive to him with Kimi already there. It'll be the same scenario he had with Hamilton at McLaren - sharing a team with another No1 driver (and you know what happens when he can't beat his team mate...). Whether Ferrari even want him is another matter (already committed to Kimi & Felippe).
It was a winning partnership before. Flavio has openly said he wants him back and will blatantly give him No1 status. I think part of the reason Alonso left is that at the time it looked like Renault were going to scale back their F1 effort or even pull out altogether; this has since changed I believe.
I can't see Ferrari being particularly attractive to him with Kimi already there. It'll be the same scenario he had with Hamilton at McLaren - sharing a team with another No1 driver (and you know what happens when he can't beat his team mate...). Whether Ferrari even want him is another matter (already committed to Kimi & Felippe).
flemke said:
rubystone said:
How about "you've damaged my image, so unless you let me leave, I'll sue your ass off"?
RD did what is good for Mclaren and what is good for McLaren is that Alonso leaves. I think that RD regretted having to make that decision though, given that he knows just how good a driver Alonso is.
The angle of "You've damaged my image..." would have no shot, except maybe in a Spanish court, but it wouldn't be tried there.RD did what is good for Mclaren and what is good for McLaren is that Alonso leaves. I think that RD regretted having to make that decision though, given that he knows just how good a driver Alonso is.
It would be one thing if Alonso had been aware that others had exchanged Ferrari IP and he had only been the whistleblower. In the event, however, he himself was one of the three culprits. Were they interested in pursuing it, McLaren would have a strong case that Alonso had damaged their image.
Agreed that Alonso's leaving would be good for McLaren - under most scenarios. There are some, however, under which his staying would be less bad than his leaving would be.
It partly depends on what Ron's other options actually are. If he thought he had another Hamilton available, by which I mean someone who is immensely talented, still developing, a team player and without a big salary, then he wouldn't need to get compensation for Alonso.
I'd say his choices are either Red Bull, Renault or Toyota:
Red Bull:
- Arguably the 3rd or 4th most competitive team towards the end of the year.
- Big budget available
- Adrian Newey chassis with a Renault engine
- Only team likely to allow his rogue status in the corporate era
Renault:
- He knows their strengths and weaknesses
- Pay not likely an issue
- Have scaled back development on 2007 car to concentrate on 2008
- Guaranteed number 1 status
Toyota:
- No shortage of wedge
- Has worked well with Trulli before
- May see it as an opportunity to make his mark
Should make the off season a little more interesting than usual at least!
Red Bull:
- Arguably the 3rd or 4th most competitive team towards the end of the year.
- Big budget available
- Adrian Newey chassis with a Renault engine
- Only team likely to allow his rogue status in the corporate era
Renault:
- He knows their strengths and weaknesses
- Pay not likely an issue
- Have scaled back development on 2007 car to concentrate on 2008
- Guaranteed number 1 status
Toyota:
- No shortage of wedge
- Has worked well with Trulli before
- May see it as an opportunity to make his mark
Should make the off season a little more interesting than usual at least!
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