Moto GP 08...The theories thread
Discussion
Firstly, the tyre thing.
The Rossi/Burgess axis have used Mich for centuries, given the level of experience/data that the Bridgsstone boys now have, will swapping to them *really* be that wise a move ? Surely Mich must now have realised they have been caught with their pants down big time, and will invest massively to reinstate the status quo ? To me, it would almost make sense to stay with Mich, however, I strongly suspect 08 is the Doctors last outing.
And he will surely want to hand it to Casey, big time.
Secondly, the Yamaha motor theory...
Given that Yam are virtually sworn to the the marketing men to use an inline four, and Vale has said the motor is too wide and that a v4 is the way forward, is there any mileage in Yam trying to make a "w4", ie 4 cylinders siamesed in a similar way to the cylinders on a VR6 Golf ?
Thus having an inline four, but *much* narrower than a standard inline four ?
The Rossi/Burgess axis have used Mich for centuries, given the level of experience/data that the Bridgsstone boys now have, will swapping to them *really* be that wise a move ? Surely Mich must now have realised they have been caught with their pants down big time, and will invest massively to reinstate the status quo ? To me, it would almost make sense to stay with Mich, however, I strongly suspect 08 is the Doctors last outing.
And he will surely want to hand it to Casey, big time.
Secondly, the Yamaha motor theory...
Given that Yam are virtually sworn to the the marketing men to use an inline four, and Vale has said the motor is too wide and that a v4 is the way forward, is there any mileage in Yam trying to make a "w4", ie 4 cylinders siamesed in a similar way to the cylinders on a VR6 Golf ?
Thus having an inline four, but *much* narrower than a standard inline four ?
Regarding the tyre issue,What helped Bridgestone was when F1 went to a single tyre format. They did not have to worry so much about the competion and you can bet they moved some of their F1 guys over to MotoGP.
At least with Rossi on the same tyres as Casey they should be on a even footing.
Regarding the engine ,I would have thought the change to 800 would have allowed Yamaha to have reduced the engine width and Rossi did not complain when it was a 1000.
But for sure Dukes are the most powerfull bikes on the grid and with their long w/base are very quick on any sort of straight. Stoner looks quite tall and this seems to allow him to muscle it round the corners.
But for sure it should be a great 08 season.
At least with Rossi on the same tyres as Casey they should be on a even footing.
Regarding the engine ,I would have thought the change to 800 would have allowed Yamaha to have reduced the engine width and Rossi did not complain when it was a 1000.
But for sure Dukes are the most powerfull bikes on the grid and with their long w/base are very quick on any sort of straight. Stoner looks quite tall and this seems to allow him to muscle it round the corners.
But for sure it should be a great 08 season.
At the last outing Sausage-Boy was up to 10KPH down on top speed, despite using the Pneumatic-valved engine, which has been problematic for Yamaha. Perhaps they've had to cut the rev-limit whilst development is under way? So a lack of power is evident. Plus they have an inability to cool the engine properly in hot climates (too small a frontal area?). A switch to Bridgestone would smack of desparation to me - I can't see that it would work at all. For one thing, Yamaha would have no meaningful data at all, so next year would effectively be a development year for them. And I don't think Sausage-Boy did himself any favours by aparently supporting the move to a single tyre (Bridgestone was proposed I think) - Michelin weren't very happy at all about that! Finally, Sausage-Boy will have his hands full next year trying to get one over on Lorenzo, or at least making sure that he doesn't have the same equipment, whatever his contract might say. Lorenzo has an even bigger ego, so there will be clashes. I think Hopper on the Kwacker, and Loris on the Suzuki will figure strongly in 2008.
7.
7.
I dont think hopper or capirossi will do anything on their new rides, stoner and pedrosa will be the men to beat, the yamaha will still be a pup and going to bridgestones is desperate like you say, a case of `i want what hes got as its better than mine`. The duke this year looked like a perfect package and caught everyone off guard. I know i said stoner also but my money is on pedrosa.
sausage boy!!!! you realy hate him don't you 
I think the tyres have been his downfall this year and poss last year so with that said any effort to move to a better one is a step in the right direction obviously, point taken on data, but its not a club outfit here is it?
you musnt forget when talkig disparagingly about Rossi that he won titles on that bike dispite its frailties, and dispite the tyres etc, he is punching well above his weight as anyone knows yet still either wins or is the only one to make a race of it with the eventual winner
nuff said
I think the tyres have been his downfall this year and poss last year so with that said any effort to move to a better one is a step in the right direction obviously, point taken on data, but its not a club outfit here is it?
you musnt forget when talkig disparagingly about Rossi that he won titles on that bike dispite its frailties, and dispite the tyres etc, he is punching well above his weight as anyone knows yet still either wins or is the only one to make a race of it with the eventual winner
nuff said
My take........
I think Rossi will be in with a strong chance if Yamaha get the bike right and he gets tyres he can push the whole race distance - he continues to be the best placed Yamaha by some margin.
Stoner will be on a roll, and the Ducati is likely to be even better than this year.
Lorenzo will be interesting and won't be fazed by Rossi - will infighting let the leaders get away?
Pedrosa is physically too light to fight for position, he'll only win if he can get away and show a clean pair of heels.
Hopkins and Kawasaki are much improved - could be up there too.
Melandri and Ducati again could be a winner. He's pissed off at the moment - a top bike and Italian team could see him fighting for the championship.
I think Rossi will be in with a strong chance if Yamaha get the bike right and he gets tyres he can push the whole race distance - he continues to be the best placed Yamaha by some margin.
Stoner will be on a roll, and the Ducati is likely to be even better than this year.
Lorenzo will be interesting and won't be fazed by Rossi - will infighting let the leaders get away?
Pedrosa is physically too light to fight for position, he'll only win if he can get away and show a clean pair of heels.
Hopkins and Kawasaki are much improved - could be up there too.
Melandri and Ducati again could be a winner. He's pissed off at the moment - a top bike and Italian team could see him fighting for the championship.
Edited by Avantone on Saturday 27th October 21:56
On the face of things, is appears a few regulars seem to have forgotten how to ride a moto gp bike, but that clearly isnt the case.
Rossi is and always will be a legend on a Moto gp bike, he was let down by Mich being caught out on the new tyre rule.Dont forget, Mich were used to making a tyre overnight to Rossi spec, and to now have to guess the compound beforehand.
The yam is down on power, but that ultimately shoudnt slow Rossi too much, as long as he has some grip.
Dont forget Nicky in this too, his quali pace is a good indication of the current state of Mich race tyres.Fast on quali's and 15th in the race.
I do think Marco will be the boy to watch next year.He has always been fast, and hard, if he can settle into Duc Corse, the pair will be formidable.
Danny just isnt quite up there I dont think, he can be quick, but I dont think often enough to string a title together.
Whatever hepppens, I do firmly believe 08 is the last time we will see the Doctor on two wheels, and that clearly is the end of an era.
I look forward to the next season, as whilst I wont take anything away from Casey, I really dont see that he has the beating of an on form Vale.
Rossi is and always will be a legend on a Moto gp bike, he was let down by Mich being caught out on the new tyre rule.Dont forget, Mich were used to making a tyre overnight to Rossi spec, and to now have to guess the compound beforehand.
The yam is down on power, but that ultimately shoudnt slow Rossi too much, as long as he has some grip.
Dont forget Nicky in this too, his quali pace is a good indication of the current state of Mich race tyres.Fast on quali's and 15th in the race.
I do think Marco will be the boy to watch next year.He has always been fast, and hard, if he can settle into Duc Corse, the pair will be formidable.
Danny just isnt quite up there I dont think, he can be quick, but I dont think often enough to string a title together.
Whatever hepppens, I do firmly believe 08 is the last time we will see the Doctor on two wheels, and that clearly is the end of an era.
I look forward to the next season, as whilst I wont take anything away from Casey, I really dont see that he has the beating of an on form Vale.
QUOTE Rossi is and always will be a legend on a Moto gp bike, he was let down by Mich being caught out on the new tyre rule.Dont forget, Mich were used to making a tyre overnight to Rossi spec, and to now have to guess the compound beforehand.
The yam is down on power, but that ultimately shoudnt slow Rossi too much, as long as he has some grip.
Dont forget Nicky in this too, his quali pace is a good indication of the current state of Mich race tyres.Fast on quali's and 15th in the race.
I do think Marco will be the boy to watch next year.He has always been fast, and hard, if he can settle into Duc Corse, the pair will be formidable.
Danny just isnt quite up there I dont think, he can be quick, but I dont think often enough to string a title together.
I agree with most of that, not sure about marco to be honest and i think pedrosa might come good next year but its good sharing opinions on what has to be THE best motorsport out there.
The yam is down on power, but that ultimately shoudnt slow Rossi too much, as long as he has some grip.
Dont forget Nicky in this too, his quali pace is a good indication of the current state of Mich race tyres.Fast on quali's and 15th in the race.
I do think Marco will be the boy to watch next year.He has always been fast, and hard, if he can settle into Duc Corse, the pair will be formidable.
Danny just isnt quite up there I dont think, he can be quick, but I dont think often enough to string a title together.
I agree with most of that, not sure about marco to be honest and i think pedrosa might come good next year but its good sharing opinions on what has to be THE best motorsport out there.
Edited by curlie467 on Sunday 28th October 09:25
curlie467 said:
I dont think hopper or capirossi will do anything on their new rides, stoner and pedrosa will be the men to beat, the yamaha will still be a pup and going to bridgestones is desperate like you say, a case of `i want what hes got as its better than mine`. The duke this year looked like a perfect package and caught everyone off guard. I know i said stoner also but my money is on pedrosa.
hopper has been going great on the suzuki this year and even randy has been able to put in some good results on the kwaka so.... my guess would be that hopper has a good season and is a regular top five finisher. Rossi and Lorenzo will cause each other too many problems this year to be a threat to Stoner.
Yamaha wont be able to see the wood for the trees as they try and keep up with Rossi's demands - the result will be poor reliability....leading to more demands...leading to...you get the picture.
Stoner will do pretty much the same thing as he did this year.
Seriously, who at yamaha in thier right mind thought it would be a good idea to split tyre manufacturers down the team?
Now each set of information is only useful for one bike. Each problem solved will only really solve it for one bike. Even if it worked for both bikes, the flow of information will virtually stop from one side of the garage to the other.
Massively short sighted move just please the whim of Rossi I reckon.
They also have to work like bastids now to make the bike work with a different tyre manufacturer AND get some extra HP.
If Michelin have made some progress, Lorenzo's bike will already work to some extent with their tyre and he could stand to gain a lot. Anyone want to take bets on Rossi asking to switch back mid season?
Where can he hide if mid season he's no better off than this year, only now hes behind his team mate as well?
Im a big Rossi fan. But all he should have done at the end of this season is worked harder with Michelin and accepted that Stoner can ride a bike a bit, regardless of his bike and tyres and that he was going to have to raise his game to stay at the front.
Yamaha wont be able to see the wood for the trees as they try and keep up with Rossi's demands - the result will be poor reliability....leading to more demands...leading to...you get the picture.
Stoner will do pretty much the same thing as he did this year.
Seriously, who at yamaha in thier right mind thought it would be a good idea to split tyre manufacturers down the team?
Now each set of information is only useful for one bike. Each problem solved will only really solve it for one bike. Even if it worked for both bikes, the flow of information will virtually stop from one side of the garage to the other.
Massively short sighted move just please the whim of Rossi I reckon.
They also have to work like bastids now to make the bike work with a different tyre manufacturer AND get some extra HP.
If Michelin have made some progress, Lorenzo's bike will already work to some extent with their tyre and he could stand to gain a lot. Anyone want to take bets on Rossi asking to switch back mid season?
Where can he hide if mid season he's no better off than this year, only now hes behind his team mate as well?
Im a big Rossi fan. But all he should have done at the end of this season is worked harder with Michelin and accepted that Stoner can ride a bike a bit, regardless of his bike and tyres and that he was going to have to raise his game to stay at the front.
Edited by 308mate on Wednesday 31st October 16:10
any comments post valencia?
i think its been a great season this year, sure casey and ducati with bridgestone rubber have been an awesome package but dani has today shown he could have been much more of a contender than his 07 results will portray...
roll on 08 and hopper on that kwaka!!
i think its been a great season this year, sure casey and ducati with bridgestone rubber have been an awesome package but dani has today shown he could have been much more of a contender than his 07 results will portray...
roll on 08 and hopper on that kwaka!!
On the basis of what I saw today, Im beginning to think Vales swap to Bridgys makes a lot bit more sense.
I do feel for Nicky, it was nice to see him and Marco duelling, if only for 2 laps till the Michs did what every frenchmen does.
Sorry to see Alex Barros go, I feel like he's part of the furniture of the championship, along with Carlos Checa too.
Next years going to be good.
As long as JB can make the jump in understanding for the Bridgestones, and Yam find a bike thats faster, more reliable, and still as nimble, then I think Vale has a shot at it.
I still think Marco will be the one to watch though.And Loris on the up and coming Kwaks.
Damn, I hate the off season.Roll on MARCH 9TH.
I do feel for Nicky, it was nice to see him and Marco duelling, if only for 2 laps till the Michs did what every frenchmen does.
Sorry to see Alex Barros go, I feel like he's part of the furniture of the championship, along with Carlos Checa too.
Next years going to be good.
As long as JB can make the jump in understanding for the Bridgestones, and Yam find a bike thats faster, more reliable, and still as nimble, then I think Vale has a shot at it.
I still think Marco will be the one to watch though.And Loris on the up and coming Kwaks.
Damn, I hate the off season.Roll on MARCH 9TH.
I think I heard a comment about Yamahas electronics being 75% being Ducati, but if it's true, that's a big gap to leap. Even the big H have got it wrong a couple of times, with Dani looping it when the launch control failed - and didn't Nicky almost do that earlier this year?
Sausage-boy has got to realise that the new generation has arrived, and more coming next year - his day is over and changing tyres is a move born of desperation. Even without his injury, Michelin weren't going to let him test at Valencia on the Bridgestone, so the team has lost an opportunity for data collection straight away.
My money's on Guintoli!
7.
Sausage-boy has got to realise that the new generation has arrived, and more coming next year - his day is over and changing tyres is a move born of desperation. Even without his injury, Michelin weren't going to let him test at Valencia on the Bridgestone, so the team has lost an opportunity for data collection straight away.
My money's on Guintoli!
7.
Sausage-boy has got to realise that the new generation has arrived, and more coming next year - his day is over
so are you saying he hasn't got it anymore??
one again you are talking shit.
on an under performing bike that is far from the pick of the field and with shit tyres he almost came second again and would have save for not racing today
true ifs and buts count for nothing, but with what he had to ride, he again was the only one to give Stoner a race this season and you know it
you realy are a silly old hector
so are you saying he hasn't got it anymore??
one again you are talking shit.
on an under performing bike that is far from the pick of the field and with shit tyres he almost came second again and would have save for not racing today
true ifs and buts count for nothing, but with what he had to ride, he again was the only one to give Stoner a race this season and you know it
you realy are a silly old hector
Edited by spectatorsam on Sunday 4th November 22:20
Rossi said something in his interview with (the lovely) Suzi P that certainly makes sense from a 4-wheel perspective and is undoubtedly even more relevant on 2 wheels, which was referring to the confidence the tyres give. Even if the ultimate grip isn't there, having some confidence in the consistency of what's beneath you makes a huge difference.
I don't think Rossi has lost it, not at all, but this season really has taken the wind out of his sails. It's like he needs a new challenge and maybe introducing a new element (tyres) into the equation will give him a new focus.
He'll be back, but maybe only for a couple of extra seasons. Then the rallying will begin in earnest.
I don't think Rossi has lost it, not at all, but this season really has taken the wind out of his sails. It's like he needs a new challenge and maybe introducing a new element (tyres) into the equation will give him a new focus.
He'll be back, but maybe only for a couple of extra seasons. Then the rallying will begin in earnest.
Dare2Fail said:
spectatorsam said:
...he almost came second again and would have save for not racing today
But he did race, didn't he???Edited by spectatorsam on Sunday 4th November 22:20
I said watch pedrosa for next season, valencia showed what he can do.
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff