FIA raid McLaren HQ
Discussion
So the FIA have sent in "independent legal and technical experts" for the last two days to the McLaren HQ in an attempt to find any incriminating evidence that they have utilised Ferrari designs.They've trawled all the hard drives and design records, and taken away "boxes of data for further analysis".
At what point does Herr Mosley and his Stormtroopers give up?? This seems to getting into a very personal and unpleasant vendetta.
At what point does Herr Mosley and his Stormtroopers give up?? This seems to getting into a very personal and unpleasant vendetta.
What is stopping a few of us going to the FIA offices a doing an independent review of them? I would be quite happy to shadow Mosley over the next few months to ensure he is impartial in his decisions, after all the FIA represent public interest so having the public check on them should be no problem at all.
PJS917 said:
What is stopping a few of us going to the FIA offices a doing an independent review of them? I would be quite happy to shadow Mosley over the next few months to ensure he is impartial in his decisions, after all the FIA represent public interest so having the public check on them should be no problem at all.
But the FIA are answerable to nobody, as they have proved with recent even'ts.Oops, I mean they only answer to Ferrari.
CivicMan said:
So the FIA have sent in "independent legal and technical experts" for the last two days to the McLaren HQ in an attempt to find any incriminating evidence that they have utilised Ferrari designs.They've trawled all the hard drives and design records, and taken away "boxes of data for further analysis".
At what point does Herr Mosley and his Stormtroopers give up?? This seems to getting into a very personal and unpleasant vendetta.
What is more alarming is that they refused an invitation from Mclaren to do this before the "Enquiry" that resulted in the $100,000,000 fine from Mclaren.At what point does Herr Mosley and his Stormtroopers give up?? This seems to getting into a very personal and unpleasant vendetta.
Isn't this just a part of what was agreed, they always said the 08 car would be the one they needed to check rather than the 07.
Lets get this all over n done with, if McLaren got nothing to hide then it can all be dropped and we can get back to the racing.
Did I say racing? hahaha sorry. I meant procession.
mmmmmm no traction control.
Lets get this all over n done with, if McLaren got nothing to hide then it can all be dropped and we can get back to the racing.
Did I say racing? hahaha sorry. I meant procession.
mmmmmm no traction control.
Conian said:
Isn't this just a part of what was agreed, they always said the 08 car would be the one they needed to check rather than the 07.
Lets get this all over n done with, if McLaren got nothing to hide then it can all be dropped and we can get back to the racing.
Did I say racing? hahaha sorry. I meant procession.
mmmmmm no traction control.
It was "part of what was agreed" - agreed by Mosley's World Motor Sport Council.Lets get this all over n done with, if McLaren got nothing to hide then it can all be dropped and we can get back to the racing.
Did I say racing? hahaha sorry. I meant procession.
mmmmmm no traction control.
It would have been easy for them to do their forensic analysis on the '07 car - if they had wanted to do. For goodness sake, right now they could be looking at the '07, with a view to determining whether there should have been a penalty for the 2007 season.
I'd say that they structured it the way they did in order to give themselves the chance to punish McLaren twice for the same Ferrari allegation.
Conian said:
if McLaren got nothing to hide then it can all be dropped and we can get back to the racing.
Of course they've got something to hide. They have their own data. I'm sure they don't want these bureaucrats sifting through sensitive data any more than any other team would. And how secure is the FIA? Especially as all teams have representatives on the FIA. It seems that Ferrari can't keep hold of theirs so there's no hope for the FIA.Mind you, there's no hope for the FIA anyway.
This is nothing more than putting the boot in. Mosely is in the ascendant at the moment and is throwing his weight around.
flemke said:
I'd say that they structured it the way they did in order to give themselves the chance to punish McLaren twice for the same Ferrari allegation.
And of course the closer to the start of the 2008 season they do it the more disruption it will cause to McLaren 
Doing it later rather than sooner also gives Max the ability to cover his own ass if/when nothing significant is found by being able to imply that McLaren had time to remove anything incriminating.
I don't believe McLaren have anything to hide but if the FIA do find something to latch on to there really will be no excuse, McLaren have been given time to cover their tracks & make sure everything is spick & span.
I think Max has done it this way to make sure Ron can't come out smelling of roses. There will always be room for lingering doubt about McLaren's integrity that an immediate surprise audit could have removed (which is undoubtely why Ron asked for it).
Derek Smith said:
Conian said:
if McLaren got nothing to hide then it can all be dropped and we can get back to the racing.
Of course they've got something to hide. They have their own data. I'm sure they don't want these bureaucrats sifting through sensitive data any more than any other team would. And how secure is the FIA? Especially as all teams have representatives on the FIA. It seems that Ferrari can't keep hold of theirs so there's no hope for the FIA.Derek Smith said:
This is nothing more than putting the boot in. Mosely is in the ascendant at the moment and is throwing his weight around.
Totally agree.There surely must come a time when McLaren have got to dig their heels in and stand up for themselves. It's just getting ridiculous.
How is a team supposed to function properly and prepare a title challenging car for next season with the FIA poking round every five minutes, demanding data and samples and taking up the time of already extremely busy key personnel.
It could almost be said that the FIA are operating a restraint of trade.
How is a team supposed to function properly and prepare a title challenging car for next season with the FIA poking round every five minutes, demanding data and samples and taking up the time of already extremely busy key personnel.
It could almost be said that the FIA are operating a restraint of trade.
Riverside said:
I don't believe McLaren have anything to hide but if the FIA do find something to latch on to there really will be no excuse, McLaren have been given time to cover their tracks & make sure everything is spick & span.
The problem will be if McLaren are, once again, asked to prove the negative.The F1 teams have numerous common suppliers. The players move from team to team. The engineers read the same technical articles.
The cars go at pretty much the same speeds, they look rather alike. It would be astounding if they did not have things in common. To the extent that they do, how does one prove that one didn't get the idea from another team? Any one of these cars comprises thousands of ideas, so the FIA and Ferrari will have thousands of opportunites to cry "Foul" and shed their copious crocodile tears.
What if Ferrari had got some McLaren IP? (And it is a virtual certainty that they did, less than two years ago when Tombazis moved from M. to F., and that is not to mention whatever odds and ends Raikkonen might have brought with him.) If there is a similarity, how do M. prove that they had the idea before F. did?
This is why this whole thing is a charade and a travesty. It is not for nothing that, in civilised societies, one is considered innocent unless and until the prosecution can prove one's guilt.
Then again, whoever said that the FIA are a civilised society?
flemke said:
The problem will be if McLaren are, once again, asked to prove the negative.
What is more, it won't be that they have to prove they have no Ferrari technology, but also no Ferrari 'ideas' on their car. That term is so loose that it could mean practically anything. Being that F1 employs some of the best engineering minds, it would hardly be surprising if two top teams turn out to have some common, independantly thought of 'ideas' for what are likely to be similar problems.tank slapper said:
flemke said:
The problem will be if McLaren are, once again, asked to prove the negative.
What is more, it won't be that they have to prove they have no Ferrari technology, but also no Ferrari 'ideas' on their car. That term is so loose that it could mean practically anything. Being that F1 employs some of the best engineering minds, it would hardly be surprising if two top teams turn out to have some common, independantly thought of 'ideas' for what are likely to be similar problems.Therefore, for any idea that appears to be common between the two cars, McLaren can show their own internal history of that idea. As long as it predates the date of the dossier exchange, they should be exonerated.
As the McLaren engineers do not know what the dossier contained, the main danger would be if they have come up with something akin to Ferrari's work since the dossier exchange. They would have, slightly later, paralleled the Ferrari work, but not been aware of the coincidence.
In that case, it would be difficult to prove one's genuine innocence, which is precisely why the burden of proof should be on the accusers.
oobster said:
CivicMan - the title of this thread is rather misleading. The FIA haven't raided McLaren. This was a pre-planned visit, McLaren knew they were coming.
Sorry to upset your day oobster, but I was quoting directly from Yahoo Sports news.http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/08112007/58/mclaren-...
So, without resorting to shock headlines a la The Sun, I felt it was quite fitting.
I guarantee they will find something - simply because it suits some silly little agenda of Max's.. they will either find something and come down like a ton of bricks or they will find something and claim that its source is 'probably' Ferrari IP but they cannot prove it definetly, with a view to just cast a shadow over McLarens season again.....
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