Ralf penalised 10 grid spots for Hungarian GP
Discussion
autosport said:
Ralf Schumacher has been held responsible for the accident on the opening lap of the German Grand Prix that eliminated himself, the Ferrari or Rubens Barrichello and Kimi Raikkonen's McLaren, and has been penalised 10 places on the grid for the next race, the Hungarian Grand Prix.
The penalty effectively kills any slim championship hopes he might still have harboured after the German non-finish.
A bulletin from the race stewards stated: "The stewards received a report from the Race Director which stated that Ralf Schumacher caused an avoidable collision, contrary to Article 53 of the FIA Formula 1 Sporting Regulations and the drivers of car numbers 2, 4 and 6 [Rubens Barrichello, Schumacher and Kimi Raikkonen] and respective team manages, were summoned.
"Having heard the explanation of each driver and having seen the different camera views of the incident, the Stewards conclude that Ralf Schumacher began to move left to obtain a better racing line for the first corner. Ralf Schumacher admitted paying no attention to the position of the other cars during this manoeuvre.
"The stewards note that it is absolutely clear that Ralf Schumacher car made contact with Barrichello's car, which in turn made contact with Raikkonen. Both drivers were caught in a set of circumstances over which they had no control."
Team principal Frank Williams has confirmed that the team will appeal the decision. With the Hungaroring one of the most difficult circuits on which to overtake, Schumacher's penalty could barely come at a worse venue.
Ralf was getting to the outside of the track in order to be in the ideal line into the following right hander. What's wrong with that ? If Barrichello and Raikkonen (who came from behind !) don't realise that and still put the pedal down then it's their fault. The race organisers have drawn two wrong conclusions from the accident: Firstly, they penalised the wrong one. Secondly, they didn't restart the race after the incident. Will they ever learn ?
>> Edited by Hansgerd on Tuesday 5th August 12:29
>> Edited by Hansgerd on Tuesday 5th August 12:29
overtaking Hansgerd said:
Ralf was getting to the outside of the track in order to be in the ideal line into the following right hander. What's wrong with that ?
Because someone else was occupying that part of the track?
I thought it was Ralf's fault. He moved over straight into another car which had nowhere to go.
I'm sure there are a few racers here who can clarify how far ahead you have to be of a car you have passed before they have to make way for you - Ralf came from behind Barrichello, but was only 1/2 car length in front before he squeezed him against Raikonen. Are you entitled to pass someone by half a car length and then squeeze them off the circuit?
Graham said:
The general rule in a corner is if the front of your car is less than half way up the car in front you should yield to the car in front....
so on that basis it was rubinos fault?
Asside that, the over-riding rule is that you DO NOT drive into the side of somebody else!
The FIA got it spot on, he should have known who was where, that's his job.
All the bollocks about taking the right line is complete tosh, if you look at where he was releative to the corner, it was already too late (in terms of track position) to be going for the racing line.
What hewas trying to do was intimidate Rubens into backing off, but the stupid pillock did not take account of Kimi and over-did it.
I think they they should have fined him WC points...
i think this topic is very interesting. I am a HUGE BMW-williams fan and its brilliant, them being at the top. I also think JPM is the most talented driver in the current F1 field. I no, everyone think micheal schumacher, but come one! The whole Scuderia ferrari F1 team is moulded around Micheal and is given the very best compared to rubens.
Back to the incident, i really dont like Ralf Schumacher, it was his move over to the left of the track that cause the accident, but it was only the smallest of turn/steering input and he unfortunately hit rubens. It was a racing accident, but i must admit had JPM been invloved/taken out by a rival team i would be very pi$$ed off, maybe im just biassedm but it wasnt a mallicious move, racing incident.
Back to the incident, i really dont like Ralf Schumacher, it was his move over to the left of the track that cause the accident, but it was only the smallest of turn/steering input and he unfortunately hit rubens. It was a racing accident, but i must admit had JPM been invloved/taken out by a rival team i would be very pi$$ed off, maybe im just biassedm but it wasnt a mallicious move, racing incident.
Not sure whether it was a racing incident or not, I'm pretty sure RS does not deserve blame...
1. He was half way in front and gentle direction change is no big deal.
2. Both Ferraris were abysmal off the line and were beaten
3. The amount of times MS has swerved across the noses of other cars and nothing has happened because of it???
3. Slow RB trapped between 2 cars.." I know I'll keep going into both of them"
4.KR darting down the outside on the grass, with perfect vision of RS and RB moves...
I'm not aportioning blame....but 10 grid spots??!!! what a F'ing joke. All 3 should be on suspended sentences and the race should've been re-started although the result was spot on.
1. He was half way in front and gentle direction change is no big deal.
2. Both Ferraris were abysmal off the line and were beaten
3. The amount of times MS has swerved across the noses of other cars and nothing has happened because of it???
3. Slow RB trapped between 2 cars.." I know I'll keep going into both of them"
4.KR darting down the outside on the grass, with perfect vision of RS and RB moves...
I'm not aportioning blame....but 10 grid spots??!!! what a F'ing joke. All 3 should be on suspended sentences and the race should've been re-started although the result was spot on.
Thing is I dont really think that at the end of the day it dosent matter wheather Ralf is guilty of causing the incident or not.
I think the big issue here is the punnishment. Surely taking himself out of the race is punnishment enough. 10 grip spots, at this time in the season, you might as well dock him ALL his championship points so far.
I think the big issue here is the punnishment. Surely taking himself out of the race is punnishment enough. 10 grip spots, at this time in the season, you might as well dock him ALL his championship points so far.
agent006 said:
[quote=Hansgerd]Secondly, they didn't restart the race after the incident.
It's because they didn't need to. The marshals could clear the track safely under the safety car. No point giving a second chance to the losers who can't get round the first corner.
I'd put money on the race being restarted if MS was involved........
Sparks
McNab said:
Although I think the penalty was unfair, I'm sick of races being ruined by first-corner multiple shunts!
Surely a rolling start would reduce the problem - or at least reduce the number of cars involved. What do you all think?
They work on big circuits and Indy oval where there is lots of space (wide space), but every street circuit CART race I see only the first 2-3 rows line up properly the rest are all over the place and out of order. Althought CART are used to this situation I think some of the more vocal F1 managers might not like their cars being passed or dropped out of order so soon when the green flag waves.
Nice idea though if they could get the discipline on the starts.
Perhaps they could do an old Le Mans style start and run across to their cars, now that would be fun to watch
>> Edited by FourWheelDrift (moderator) on Tuesday 19th August 23:11
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