Your favourite 'cheats' in motorsport

Your favourite 'cheats' in motorsport

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Discussion

Krikkit

16,594 posts

128 months

Tuesday 15th October
quotequote all
bucksmanuk said:
People underestimate what others are prepared to spend in the most basic clubby championships. These are real values for someone who won a bottom of the league hot hatch championship. Most of the grid had £5-10k cars.
This is what sometimes puts me off putting an entry together for club racing, even the super regulated stuff like C2s/EnduroKa/116 Trophy sounds like a lot of money gets spent against the spirit of the rules.

Have we had the full set of Smokey's mods? I know we've said the huge fuel line trick.

There was also the flat-floor car that he put in - the underside was unregulated, so he went to town smoothing it all out.

Then there was a car with super-soft front springs to induce enormous rake and give downforce - only raced once then quietly banned.

ribiero

421 posts

113 months

Wednesday 16th October
quotequote all
bucksmanuk said:

People underestimate what others are prepared to spend in the most basic clubby championships. These are real values for someone who won a bottom of the league hot hatch championship. Most of the grid had £5-10k cars.
£10k on dampers, and the car being returned to the factory in Germany for setting up on their chassis dyno.
Another £10K on the last word in engine preparation.
A £18K tyre bill – I still can’t believe this….
All the suspension bushes were legal but certainly not in the sprit of the regulations.
Trying out 13 ECUs and finding a good working one with the highest rev limiter, there’s a tolerance on them of just +/- 150 rpm.
The driver having tuition off a BTCC driver and at least one days full testing and tuition on the track in the week prior to the meeting.
The car went back to a professional race preparation team every time for further work/repairs, - usually further work.
A budget of £60k a year – EVERY YEAR.
For one driver in one car….in a bottom of the league hot hatch championship….
Hot Hatch Championships are properly weaponised at the front, i'm surprised how much money is thrown into the Combe championship, let alone a national one like the 750mc!

AllyBassman

620 posts

59 months

Wednesday 16th October
quotequote all
I heard one recently - not sure how true it is though.

A BTCC team caught wind that the person doing the ride-height scrutineering was not recognised as being qualified to do so.

So they sent their cars out with illegal ride heights for the obvious performance advantage.

Once the session ended and their cars were tested and subesquently failed the ride height test - they appealed citing that the scrutineer was not qualified to perform the test. Their appeal was upheld!

bucksmanuk

1,336 posts

117 months

Thursday 17th October
quotequote all
AllyBassman said:
I heard one recently - not sure how true it is though.

A BTCC team caught wind that the person doing the ride-height scrutineering was not recognised as being qualified to do so.

So they sent their cars out with illegal ride heights for the obvious performance advantage.

Once the session ended and their cars were tested and subesquently failed the ride height test - they appealed citing that the scrutineer was not qualified to perform the test. Their appeal was upheld!
There are a number of individuals who are attached to certain championships who call themselves scrutineers, because they do certain checks on the cars. The checks are the basic ones such as ride height, weight etc… They are not qualified scrutineers. They have no licence. The vast majority are a pleasure to deal with and know they are there to police with a light touch and do very basic checks as stated. Almost anyone on the day can be a championship technical assistant as long as they realise where their talents as well as their authorities and responsibilities end. 20% of them don’t and we have problems with these individuals.

If anything “dodgy” should arise, the championship technical assistant should inform the chief or a relevant eligibility scrutineer, and then that licenced person will do the checks, and if appropriate, paperwork is issued and then the fun starts. This paperwork can only come from a chief or a relevant eligibility scrutineer.

If lots of checks have to be done, and time is of the essence then it’s certainly possible that a non-scrutineer could be doing checks. Pit lane marshals can be, and are used, but they would only ever say “this is wrong, over to the eligibility scrutineer to do something about it”. Motorsports UK would hesitate to hand out the relevant forms to a non-eligibility scrutineer and would probably refuse to hand them out to a non-scrutineer.

I must admit it sounds unlikely that at a BTCC meeting there would be such a shortage of scrutineers that non-qualified people would be used and even less likely to be issuing paperwork. These forms require signatures from the eligibility scrutineer, the chief, and get passed in front of the clerk and the stewards. Licence numbers have to be on the paperwork. T’s are crossed and I’s are dotted on these forms and checked by A.N. Other scrutineer. I know the chief who does BTCC meetings. I would be amazed if he let that happen.

We’ll see if there’s anything in the Motorsports UK magazine. Its always good to read the disciplinaries at the back, and the normal “bringing the sport in to disrepute” from karting dads!

Going off topic - but probably of interest to some reading this.

“There are a number of individuals who are attached to certain championships who call themselves scrutineers, because they do certain checks on the cars. “
I’ll explain why this is the case. There are a number of championships which have a track record of a massive turnover of scrutineers, one a year etc.. and sometimes even more. This is for one or more of the following reasons: -
The championship co-ordinator wants it all to run their way and the rules bending to support the championship or their best mate who is doing well in it.
The championship co-ordinator is a "challenge".
A number of the competitors are "challenges" and giving up quality weekend free time to deal with these people isn’t a pleasure any more.
The rule book is so badly written, there isn't a hope in hell of policing the championship properly.
The organising club aren’t covering the scrutineer’s expenses properly.
Other reasons can be added as we go along.

Hence a shortage of younger scrutineers coming through, so an increase in the championship technical assistant. Many times I’m the youngest (or second youngest) scrutineer at a meeting and I’m 54…

MyVTECGoesBwaaah

694 posts

89 months

Thursday 17th October
quotequote all
bucksmanuk said:
AllyBassman said:
I heard one recently - not sure how true it is though.

A BTCC team caught wind that the person doing the ride-height scrutineering was not recognised as being qualified to do so.

So they sent their cars out with illegal ride heights for the obvious performance advantage.

Once the session ended and their cars were tested and subesquently failed the ride height test - they appealed citing that the scrutineer was not qualified to perform the test. Their appeal was upheld!
There are a number of individuals who are attached to certain championships who call themselves scrutineers, because they do certain checks on the cars. The checks are the basic ones such as ride height, weight etc… They are not qualified scrutineers. They have no licence. The vast majority are a pleasure to deal with and know they are there to police with a light touch and do very basic checks as stated. Almost anyone on the day can be a championship technical assistant as long as they realise where their talents as well as their authorities and responsibilities end. 20% of them don’t and we have problems with these individuals.

If anything “dodgy” should arise, the championship technical assistant should inform the chief or a relevant eligibility scrutineer, and then that licenced person will do the checks, and if appropriate, paperwork is issued and then the fun starts. This paperwork can only come from a chief or a relevant eligibility scrutineer.

If lots of checks have to be done, and time is of the essence then it’s certainly possible that a non-scrutineer could be doing checks. Pit lane marshals can be, and are used, but they would only ever say “this is wrong, over to the eligibility scrutineer to do something about it”. Motorsports UK would hesitate to hand out the relevant forms to a non-eligibility scrutineer and would probably refuse to hand them out to a non-scrutineer.

I must admit it sounds unlikely that at a BTCC meeting there would be such a shortage of scrutineers that non-qualified people would be used and even less likely to be issuing paperwork. These forms require signatures from the eligibility scrutineer, the chief, and get passed in front of the clerk and the stewards. Licence numbers have to be on the paperwork. T’s are crossed and I’s are dotted on these forms and checked by A.N. Other scrutineer. I know the chief who does BTCC meetings. I would be amazed if he let that happen.

We’ll see if there’s anything in the Motorsports UK magazine. Its always good to read the disciplinaries at the back, and the normal “bringing the sport in to disrepute” from karting dads!

Going off topic - but probably of interest to some reading this.

“There are a number of individuals who are attached to certain championships who call themselves scrutineers, because they do certain checks on the cars. “
I’ll explain why this is the case. There are a number of championships which have a track record of a massive turnover of scrutineers, one a year etc.. and sometimes even more. This is for one or more of the following reasons: -
The championship co-ordinator wants it all to run their way and the rules bending to support the championship or their best mate who is doing well in it.
The championship co-ordinator is a "challenge".
A number of the competitors are "challenges" and giving up quality weekend free time to deal with these people isn’t a pleasure any more.
The rule book is so badly written, there isn't a hope in hell of policing the championship properly.
The organising club aren’t covering the scrutineer’s expenses properly.
Other reasons can be added as we go along.

Hence a shortage of younger scrutineers coming through, so an increase in the championship technical assistant. Many times I’m the youngest (or second youngest) scrutineer at a meeting and I’m 54…
I believe this may be the incident in question:

https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/131017/neal-ga...

AllyBassman

620 posts

59 months

Thursday 17th October
quotequote all
MyVTECGoesBwaaah said:
I believe this may be the incident in question:

https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/131017/neal-ga...
haha it sure is! I didn't realise it was public knowledge..... I can now shed the weight of the secret... biggrin

I was told they sent the car near enough scraping along the ground, the other teams could clrearly see that the car was too low and would fail the ride height test!


Edited by AllyBassman on Thursday 17th October 10:44

shirt

19,153 posts

148 months

Thursday 17th October
quotequote all
Also surprised that was allowed to happen. I’m a scrutineer and we don’t make decisions, just observe. If anything is found out of spec or untoward it gets reported to the chief scrutineer/fia tech delegate who would recheck and act accordingly.

clubracing

278 posts

153 months

Thursday 17th October
quotequote all
bucksmanuk said:
The championship co-ordinator wants it all to run their way and the rules bending to support the championship or their best mate who is doing well in it.
The championship co-ordinator is a "challenge".
A number of the competitors are "challenges" and giving up quality weekend free time to deal with these people isn’t a pleasure any more.
The rule book is so badly written, there isn't a hope in hell of policing the championship properly.
There's no denying that there are difficult coordinators and competitors, but equally there are difficult championship eligibility scrutineers. Some scrutineers who for obvious reasons don't have the same level of knowledge about technical aspects of the cars as the people who build and work them all the time, but still think they know better about how to write and police specific technical details in the regulations. They ignore advice and their checks don't cover all the ways people try to circumvent the regulations.

shirt said:
Also surprised that was allowed to happen. I’m a scrutineer and we don’t make decisions, just observe. If anything is found out of spec or untoward it gets reported to the chief scrutineer/fia tech delegate who would recheck and act accordingly.
From the Autosport article;

"A non-official had assisted with weighing and ride height checking process. BTCC rules stipulate that only registered officials and scrutineers can enter the weighing area."

Sounds like a 'non-official' was helping out in the wighing area who shouldn't have been, making all of the eligibility checks invalid regardless of who did them. Procedural mistakes by scrutineers seem a fairly common reason for appeals to be upheld judging by the MSUK national court reports.

shirt

19,153 posts

148 months

Thursday 17th October
quotequote all
I guess someone’s mate or similar.

I’ve got a day’s scrutineering training tomorrow actually. Then the exam in November. Should be FIA silver level if my previous experience is all counted and hoping to make the cut for F1 duty.

FourWheelDrift

78,425 posts

231 months

Saturday 19th October
quotequote all
Have we had the Penske Camaro - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkWEmfNmXiE