Did Ayrton kill himself as Damon Hill suggests?
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
I ALWAYS thought that Senna's crash was caused by the car running too low a ride height. His car can be seen bottoming dramatically on the run through Tamburello and I think he just lost steering input for a fraction of second and speared off the track - as simple as that.
I suspect it was a combination of factors. It is suspected the car was running low because of the laps eing the safety car which meant the tyres were cool, and therefore the pressure in them reduced, hence reducung ride height.
Combine this with Arytons desire to beat Schumacher and its easy to believe he may have tried to go into the corner too fast.
I can't see why Damon should be criticised for saying Ayrton made a mistake.
I dug out my videos of the 1994 season (taped off the BBC at the time) and it is clear that, before the San Marino race, everyone on the BBC team at the time (Walker, Ryder, Palmer etc) was really querying whether Senna had finally met his match. They were expressing extreme surprise that the "Dream Package" of Senna in a Williams (after all, the 1992 and 1993 seasons had been virtual walkovers for Mansell and Prost) did not seem to be up to the "new boy". I felt that there was an air of desperation about the way Senna was driving that week-end.
Despite the horror of that week-end - it was nice to see 26 car grids again! And the cars looked better too.
>> Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 21st April 23:38
Despite the horror of that week-end - it was nice to see 26 car grids again! And the cars looked better too.
>> Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 21st April 23:38
Agent 006 - who are you referring to when you say "the entire series he has written"?
The comments I was referring to were actually based on an interview Steve Ryder did with Jonathan Palmer in the pit lane BEFORE the San Marino race started.
Most people who watched the first two races of 1994 (me included) were more than surprised to see how Senna was struggling - he fell off the road in Brazil trying to keep up with Schumacher. He was slightly unfortunate at Aida, he was shoved off the road by an impatient Hakkinen and then rammed by Larini in the Ferrari.
The comments I was referring to were actually based on an interview Steve Ryder did with Jonathan Palmer in the pit lane BEFORE the San Marino race started.
Most people who watched the first two races of 1994 (me included) were more than surprised to see how Senna was struggling - he fell off the road in Brazil trying to keep up with Schumacher. He was slightly unfortunate at Aida, he was shoved off the road by an impatient Hakkinen and then rammed by Larini in the Ferrari.
Eric Mc said:
Senna made plenty of mistakes - he wasn't infallible. I remember him flipping his McLaren into the gravel trap at the scary Peralta corner in Mexico
I remember that. His explanation? He wanted to see what would happen if he tried taking the corner a gear higher than normal!
What always strikes me as odd is how the death of Ratzenburger didn't trigger a decade of legal (in)action. It was quickly accepted that a bolt failed on his front wing after an off the previous lap and nothing more was done about it.
Good write up on Simtek here.
Andy mac said:
ratzenberger is not Senna..
He's still a racing driver who was killed. It always annoys me that Ratzenberger is forgotten about, whilst Senna is still revered 10 years on. Fair enough, Roland wasn't as well known or as talented, but he still deserves a mention as a very quick driver who gave everything to get to F1.
Isn't there supposed to be some on board from schuy's car that shows the williams bottoming our on some bumps just before the corner entry?
Don't forget there was a fair bit of carbon fibre left on circuit too after the incident that led to the pace car coming out but the biggest factor I believe was that Ayrton was being ursurped by Michael and that he HAD to stay in front to regain some level of phychological(?)advantage.
cheers
MoJo.
>> Edited by mojocvh on Thursday 22 April 02:59
Don't forget there was a fair bit of carbon fibre left on circuit too after the incident that led to the pace car coming out but the biggest factor I believe was that Ayrton was being ursurped by Michael and that he HAD to stay in front to regain some level of phychological(?)advantage.
cheers
MoJo.
>> Edited by mojocvh on Thursday 22 April 02:59
RichB said:
i only feel that with the tenth anniversary of his death round the corner, damon could be a little more respectful... etc.
It's not Damon you want to be aiming your ire at it's the Italian courts who will not let the matter drop.
to be fair Rich, i know that the italian courts were desperate to find someone to blame for the death of ronnie peterson for years so am well aware of the situation re Senna.
pablo said:
It's not about apportioning blame, or at least thats not Damon Hills job
and indeed he's not, he's simply stating his opinion that most likely nothing in the car broke.
I've always found Damon to be a really genuijly nice guy (and yes I know him from his F3 days) this is not how would want his comment to be interpreted. Rich...
Damon does not know 100% that nothing in the car broke. Whilst he may be a lovely bloke, i think he should have just stayed quiet on this one.
None of the findings have indicated that anything broke on that car. Hill HAD to be sure in his own mind that there was no inherent flaw in the car as he had to get into an identical one less than 60 minutes after the crash and drive it flat out for 90 odd minutes.
If anyone is entitled to an opinion on what might have happened, it's Damon Hill.
If anyone is entitled to an opinion on what might have happened, it's Damon Hill.
BBC said:
This resulted in a sudden loss of front-end grip which, in combination with the rear tyres sliding, meant the car suddenly turned right.
So the car turned right despite having no grip whatsoever? It must have been the marshall on the inside of the track huffing and puffing for all he was worth then 
.pablo said:Right, I will say again it is the Italian courts who will not let the man RiP and for all we know Damon may have been asked for his opinion as a legality. The fact is that ludicrously the Italian court still wants to press charges of murder against Frank Williams. Ayrton is dead, fact, and by suggesting that "perhaps" he made an error Damon is i) stating his opinion (like you are) and ii) deflecting any suggestion that the car was responsible and protecting Williams. Nothing more nothing less, he does not have any axe to grind with Senna. Rich...
i only feel that with the tenth anniversary of his death round the corner, damon could be a little more respectful... etc.
It's not Damon you want to be aiming your ire at it's the Italian courts who will not let the matter drop.
to be fair Rich, i know that the italian courts were desperate to find someone to blame for the death of ronnie peterson for years so am well aware of the situation re Senna.
pablo said:
It's not about apportioning blame, or at least thats not Damon Hills job
and indeed he's not, he's simply stating his opinion that most likely nothing in the car broke.
I've always found Damon to be a really genuijly nice guy (and yes I know him from his F3 days) this is not how would want his comment to be interpreted. Rich...
The DJ 27 said:
ratzenberger is not Senna..
He's still a racing driver who was killed. It always annoys me that Ratzenberger is forgotten about, whilst Senna is still revered 10 years on. Fair enough, Roland wasn't as well known or as talented, but he still deserves a mention as a very quick driver who gave everything to get to F1.
Was merely a statement as to why there was a big to-do about Senna, and not ratzenburger.
As to the car turning right, it did not... It had less grip, thus it carried on in a straight line, unfortunately the road was bending to the left.
Yes it does turn right. Remembering what I've read, around 65% of the downforce on an F1 car comes from the underbody, diffuser and all that. If that is ouching the floor, no air is flowing through, so you lose a lot of downforce, and it can pick the tyres up off the floor, leaving you with no grip whatsoever. Now if Senna was doing 190-odd mph though Tamburello, he would be relying on the downforce to keep the car on the track. If that is suddenly removed, the car would (and did) go off. The car turns right because Senna was still applying opposite lock when the downforce and grip returned.
I beleive the impact speed was 134mph, so the car lost about 60mph between the track and the wall
I beleive the impact speed was 134mph, so the car lost about 60mph between the track and the wall
mrmaggit said:
Don't forget that this one crash has ruined more circuits than anything else. Monza is a joke now, as a racing circuit.
Err, the chicanes went in at Monza 20 years earlier, MrMaggit. The only change post-94 has been at the Rettifilo, which neede it anyway.
Also, tens of thousands (it may be over a hundred thousand now) of Europeans are alive because of Imola 1994. Euro NCAP came about directly because of the pressure Max Mosley came under after the accidents.
I'm not having a dig at all, but some very positive things have come out of what was a very bad weekend.
Eric Mc said:
Most people who watched the first two races of 1994 (me included) were more than surprised to see how Senna was struggling - he fell off the road in Brazil trying to keep up with Schumacher. He was slightly unfortunate at Aida, he was shoved off the road by an impatient Hakkinen and then rammed by Larini in the Ferrari.
I think your memory is spot on, I, like many was a huge Senna fan (and close observer), and was very concerned with his start to the 94 season. There was something, disturbingly aberrational about his races. Strange as it sounds, it was as if the darkness had descended and was all around him. It seemed like that from the start of the season, a weird strange resonance about him.I remember after each race sensing that sooner or later something seminal was going to happen, there seemed to be some relentless momentum building, maybe it was his nemesis rising...
HiRich said:
Also, tens of thousands (it may be over a hundred thousand now) of Europeans are alive because of Imola 1994. Euro NCAP came about directly because of the pressure Max Mosley came under after the accidents.
I'm not having a dig at all, but some very positive things have come out of what was a very bad weekend.
Rich,
Can you fill us in on this EuroNCAP stuff, it sounds interesting.
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