Villeneuve's return
Discussion
mg511 said:
JV failed at BAR 'cos he was lazy; too lazy to test, too lazy to go to the factory and enthuse the staff, too lazy to work with sponsors, he just sulked and cashed his big checks. I hope he doesn't get the Williams drive 'cos he doesn't deserve it.
Yes, but what do you really think? Stop sitting on the fence!
manek said:
Er - he was World Champion in 1997. 'Never performed well in F1'??
Correct, he never performed well in F1. I have seen reports that the Williams team thought he was making very hard work of winning the championship that year, apparently he should have been able to win with ease given the superiority of the Williams at the time.
kevinday said:
The Williams team thought he was making very hard work of winning the championship that year, apparently he should have been able to win with ease given the superiority of the Williams at the time.
That explains why Villeneuve only won 7 races whereas his Williams team mate won 1 race. And he only scored double the number of points as his team mate after all.
Yeah, he was a rubbish driver, just like Mansell. It was pure luck the pair of them managed to win championships on both sides of the Atlantic. Now Damon Hill, there's real quality. The way he put that Arrows round the track in '97 was the sign of a real racer. Shame he's not driving the 2004 Williams this weekend and showing Montoya what the car is really capable of achieving.
mg511 said:
In a great car JV is okay, in anything else he is found wanting, and most importantly of all, he can't help make an avarage car good 'cos he's a useless & lazy tester.
Glad to see I am not alone
I find it most telling that BAR has come good this year, with JB rather than JV.....
kevinday said:I'm not a great JV fan - and point to how MS turned round an abismal team into invincibility at the same time JV was spending his cash.
I find it most telling that BAR has come good this year, with JB rather than JV.....
However, a certain Ron Dennis used to have an incredibly expensive driver, who left and went to Williams. Ron was seriously p1ssed off, as Williams had been spending their money on the car, whilst Ron had been paying his driver.
Driver name - certain Mr Senna.
I think that mismanagement was the reason that BAR did sooooo badly, but JV's lack of drive is why they would never have challenged the red cars.
I think JV is a dickhead that thinks far too much of himself and has had his day in F1.
Yes he did well in 1997 but look at the car. The class of the field. I mean even Hill won in 1996!
Yes he had a bad car for a long time at BAR but then he didnt do anything for the team and I think it speaks for itself that Button and Sato are getting great results this year, and that the team are happy and motivated and working better. (Oh how i laughed when the minute he left the team came on ten fold).
I doubt he will be back and even if he is I cant see him beating the new boys and schumi.
Lets get some more Brits in F1, someone sack Squartards sorry arse...Please!
Si
Yes he did well in 1997 but look at the car. The class of the field. I mean even Hill won in 1996!
Yes he had a bad car for a long time at BAR but then he didnt do anything for the team and I think it speaks for itself that Button and Sato are getting great results this year, and that the team are happy and motivated and working better. (Oh how i laughed when the minute he left the team came on ten fold).
I doubt he will be back and even if he is I cant see him beating the new boys and schumi.
Lets get some more Brits in F1, someone sack Squartards sorry arse...Please!
Si
I think JV cos of his name is just one of those drivers that attracts a lot of attention both good and bad as can be seen here. I'll admit here that I'm a JV supporter but I will add these points.
CART had fairly equal cars where drivers could make a difference. He won a great race in his first season and had a great drive at Indy. In the next year he won the CART championship and the Indy 500 from a lap down in the early stages.
Williams appoint good drivers and recognise talent even if 'watchers' can't. His first F1 race, a new track so no advantages to previous years drivers and JV is on pole, Ok didn't win race but for a small mistake and possible resultant problems with the car but hey no-ones perfect. Damon was a fairly handy driver, by the end of the season JV was on equal terms and possibly on ascendancy.
HHF was/is a good driver, highly rated by many. Cos JV beat him of course excuses have to flow so JV psyched him out, had better equipment blah blah. World champ results and some mega moves on Mr MS.
Team-mate to Panis. Damn good driver, never had right car but for those who like F1 one of the best drives I've seen in recent years was his to win Monaco in definitely not the best car. Only the best drivers win there in sub-standard cars. Also he was as quick as the 2 McClaren drivers in testing.
BAR was a big mistake so I think if JV is guilty of anythings it's perhaps some of the career decisions he's made. BAR was a load of false promises and a dream which didn't materialise. As for DR I personally think he's a t**ser. Obviously a personality clash there but he should have made it clear much earlier that JV wasn't going to get a deal. He knew as soon as he took charge of BAR with this bo**oks about JV having a year off to help budgets. JV should have known and taken the Renault offer but I think the Villeneuve motto is trust (father and Pironi)and he still felt that the BAR dream could come true even with DR. I think DR's sole purpose last year was to embarass and undermine JV, contracts are contracts, wages are not for discussion in public, the whole thing was ridiculous and un-proffessional.
I hope he does come back with a proper team that can give him a decent car, not necessarily the best but a decent one. I think he still has the passion and skill to win again. One thing is for certain, F1 has become incredibly boring this year and he at least stood up and openly criticised the new rules which were supposed to make racing more interesting. As we can all see the F1 bosses were absolutely right as usual and JV was completely wrong.
Rant over, back to work.
CART had fairly equal cars where drivers could make a difference. He won a great race in his first season and had a great drive at Indy. In the next year he won the CART championship and the Indy 500 from a lap down in the early stages.
Williams appoint good drivers and recognise talent even if 'watchers' can't. His first F1 race, a new track so no advantages to previous years drivers and JV is on pole, Ok didn't win race but for a small mistake and possible resultant problems with the car but hey no-ones perfect. Damon was a fairly handy driver, by the end of the season JV was on equal terms and possibly on ascendancy.
HHF was/is a good driver, highly rated by many. Cos JV beat him of course excuses have to flow so JV psyched him out, had better equipment blah blah. World champ results and some mega moves on Mr MS.
Team-mate to Panis. Damn good driver, never had right car but for those who like F1 one of the best drives I've seen in recent years was his to win Monaco in definitely not the best car. Only the best drivers win there in sub-standard cars. Also he was as quick as the 2 McClaren drivers in testing.
BAR was a big mistake so I think if JV is guilty of anythings it's perhaps some of the career decisions he's made. BAR was a load of false promises and a dream which didn't materialise. As for DR I personally think he's a t**ser. Obviously a personality clash there but he should have made it clear much earlier that JV wasn't going to get a deal. He knew as soon as he took charge of BAR with this bo**oks about JV having a year off to help budgets. JV should have known and taken the Renault offer but I think the Villeneuve motto is trust (father and Pironi)and he still felt that the BAR dream could come true even with DR. I think DR's sole purpose last year was to embarass and undermine JV, contracts are contracts, wages are not for discussion in public, the whole thing was ridiculous and un-proffessional.
I hope he does come back with a proper team that can give him a decent car, not necessarily the best but a decent one. I think he still has the passion and skill to win again. One thing is for certain, F1 has become incredibly boring this year and he at least stood up and openly criticised the new rules which were supposed to make racing more interesting. As we can all see the F1 bosses were absolutely right as usual and JV was completely wrong.
Rant over, back to work.
Rich...4 drivers being considered apparantly for the Williams drives, including Villenevue
www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=27198&s=5
www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=27198&s=5
Autosport said:
Ralf's imminent departure to Toyota leaves two race seats begging
Williams has identified a hit-list of four drivers – Mark Webber, David Coulthard, Giancarlo Fisichella and Jacques Villeneuve – to join its 2005 Formula 1 line-up to replace Toyota-bound Ralf Schumacher and McLaren signing Juan Pablo Montoya, according to an exclusive report in this week's Autosport magazine.
Autosport sources have revealed Schumacher's contract with Toyota is subject only to final approval in Japan, which would mean two vacancies in Williams' 2005 race team. With Jenson Button out of the frame due to his watertight BAR contract, insiders have indicated that Coulthard, Fisichella and Villeneuve are the three favoured options to join Webber – understood to be at the very top of its shopping list.
Villeneuve and Coulthard are known to have discussions with Williams, and the Canadian – who won the world championship with the team in 1997 – has begun a new programme with long-time fitness trainer Erwin Gollner. His manager, Craig Pollock, has said that Villeneuve was in fact training in Monaco when reports of him attending a test at Paul Ricard spread like wildfire earlier this week.
If it cannot secure the services of two of it's 'A-list' drivers, another four – Scott Dixon, Marc Gene, Nick Heidfeld and Antonio Pizzonia – would be considered for race seats.
RichB,
Hmmmm on the face of it you're right Jenson did have a better season than JV last year but DR absolutely made sure of that with all of the pre-season stuff that went on. The last thing you need is to doubt the support of your team. I've only just started racing and there's loads of stuff to think about, the last thing you need is to feel that the team isn't 100% behind you and your new boss is trying to devalue you, advertise your wages and generally create an environment in which it is impossible to flourish.
Then again I'm sure that you talk from experience, correct me if I'm wrong.
Ceejay
Hmmmm on the face of it you're right Jenson did have a better season than JV last year but DR absolutely made sure of that with all of the pre-season stuff that went on. The last thing you need is to doubt the support of your team. I've only just started racing and there's loads of stuff to think about, the last thing you need is to feel that the team isn't 100% behind you and your new boss is trying to devalue you, advertise your wages and generally create an environment in which it is impossible to flourish.
Then again I'm sure that you talk from experience, correct me if I'm wrong.
Ceejay
Kevin,
Opinion is purely based on the way he behaved when he took over the reins at BAR. I'm just one of those old fashioned people who thinks that doing the right thing in the right way is important. Could have been done so much better for both parties and left JV with the number one slot at Renault.
Sure he got the job done at Subaru but getting JV into the BAR team in the first place was a big part of the plan to attract backers. DR didn't seem to care that JV had put his name to a fledgling team and possibly sacrificed his career for very little reward. Also lets not be under any illusions here, there is one guy who really has turned BAR around this year and he was appointed under CP. A bean counter he isn't, a very talented engineer he most certainly is.
Opinion is purely based on the way he behaved when he took over the reins at BAR. I'm just one of those old fashioned people who thinks that doing the right thing in the right way is important. Could have been done so much better for both parties and left JV with the number one slot at Renault.
Sure he got the job done at Subaru but getting JV into the BAR team in the first place was a big part of the plan to attract backers. DR didn't seem to care that JV had put his name to a fledgling team and possibly sacrificed his career for very little reward. Also lets not be under any illusions here, there is one guy who really has turned BAR around this year and he was appointed under CP. A bean counter he isn't, a very talented engineer he most certainly is.
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