RE: Ferrari P4/5C Hits The 'Ring
Discussion
I really hate this car now after watching it's owners and technical team seem totally unenthusiastic about it. Parts bin special in a frock. Somewhat like those old minis that used to be made into oranges but this time they're advertising someones ego....
I know it's just a test but this thing should be massively quick in comparison to the other cars out on the circuit. It's not.
edit: punctuation damn you!
I know it's just a test but this thing should be massively quick in comparison to the other cars out on the circuit. It's not.
edit: punctuation damn you!
Edited by avhbi on Tuesday 29th March 18:44
ts! we ain't dying quietly.
The Race Course is much longer than the Ring Course Road cars are timed on.
On the straights she is is slower than the GT3's because of her mandated air restriction. We're currently restricted to just under GT2. The purpose of these test is to determine how fast we are so we can then ask the Organizers for a touch more air which we may or may not get.
That said in the turns she sticks and we look forward to our 6 Hour Race this weekend.
Unrestricted on the Ring road course she'd run bellow 7 minutes easily. My guess 6:45.
In her street legal configuration she will be unrestricted and a lot faster than in her Race Spec. configuration.
Sadly the Factory supported Ferrari 458 GTC didn't show up.
On the straights she is is slower than the GT3's because of her mandated air restriction. We're currently restricted to just under GT2. The purpose of these test is to determine how fast we are so we can then ask the Organizers for a touch more air which we may or may not get.
That said in the turns she sticks and we look forward to our 6 Hour Race this weekend.
Unrestricted on the Ring road course she'd run bellow 7 minutes easily. My guess 6:45.
In her street legal configuration she will be unrestricted and a lot faster than in her Race Spec. configuration.
Sadly the Factory supported Ferrari 458 GTC didn't show up.
Jonathan Legard said:
Lovely thing, but not massively quick for a racing car. 7:23 RTG measured there - about what Nissan/Porsche would get with a standard GTR/GT2 road car.
That video is the FIRST LAP of one of the drivers during TESTING
7:23 after all that effort? - Nothing outstanding considering the work it seems to have involved. My Skyline 400R is not a long way off the pace, even on an out lap. And guess what? - It's a bog-standard factory spec' road car!
Perhaps I should mention that it's also a proper four seater that occasionally takes the family on picnics as well as tootling around town to the supermarket. It'll sit happily at traffic lights without so much as a murmur…
I used to own a 308GTB. I hate to say it but Ferrari have got no idea about building a realistic compromise for road and track. Nissan absolutely hose them into the weeds (along with Porsche).
Perhaps I should mention that it's also a proper four seater that occasionally takes the family on picnics as well as tootling around town to the supermarket. It'll sit happily at traffic lights without so much as a murmur…
I used to own a 308GTB. I hate to say it but Ferrari have got no idea about building a realistic compromise for road and track. Nissan absolutely hose them into the weeds (along with Porsche).
Edited by cosicave on Wednesday 30th March 00:05
Once again the Ring lap times you are mentioning are on a much shorter course than we Race on which is the entire road course plus the GP track.
As an aside P 4/5 Competizione is not really a 430 with a body kit. It's a fully engineered car with different aerodynamics, suspension geometry, specially developed tires by our sponsor Pirelli which are of quite different sizes than those used on 430 GTC's, different engine management, unique dampers, different diff/gearbox engineering, etc;etc;etc.
While I won't say at what speed she may or may not make her weight in downforce or whether or not she can pull similar G's to an F 16 in a medium turn, I will say we're pleased with how she turned out.
As an further aside does anyone think we'd run flat out at a public test or post a video of our best lap? No one that we noticed seem to have done so either.
As an aside P 4/5 Competizione is not really a 430 with a body kit. It's a fully engineered car with different aerodynamics, suspension geometry, specially developed tires by our sponsor Pirelli which are of quite different sizes than those used on 430 GTC's, different engine management, unique dampers, different diff/gearbox engineering, etc;etc;etc.
While I won't say at what speed she may or may not make her weight in downforce or whether or not she can pull similar G's to an F 16 in a medium turn, I will say we're pleased with how she turned out.
As an further aside does anyone think we'd run flat out at a public test or post a video of our best lap? No one that we noticed seem to have done so either.
Edited by Napolis on Wednesday 30th March 00:47
Edited by Napolis on Wednesday 30th March 00:48
marktul said:
LukeBird said:
Stunning! 
That will make quite a sight when it's back on the road in New York!
As I understand it this one will never be a road car. The first one Glickenhaus had built is Enzo based and is road legal, this one is an out and out racer with a F430 GT2 as it's base.That will make quite a sight when it's back on the road in New York!
Napolis said:
The Race Course is much longer than the Ring Course Road cars are timed on.
On the straights she is is slower than the GT3's because of her mandated air restriction. We're currently restricted to just under GT2. The purpose of these test is to determine how fast we are so we can then ask the Organizers for a touch more air which we may or may not get.
That said in the turns she sticks and we look forward to our 6 Hour Race this weekend.
Unrestricted on the Ring road course she'd run bellow 7 minutes easily. My guess 6:45.
In her street legal configuration she will be unrestricted and a lot faster than in her Race Spec. configuration.
Sadly the Factory supported Ferrari 458 GTC didn't show up.
Although the few folks on here who have denigrated the video's lap-time are not on very solid ground, on the other hand I'd be surprised if you could get to a 6:45 equivalent, unless the organiser is being very supportive (which has certainly been known to happen - witness the blatant favouritism shown to the R8s).On the straights she is is slower than the GT3's because of her mandated air restriction. We're currently restricted to just under GT2. The purpose of these test is to determine how fast we are so we can then ask the Organizers for a touch more air which we may or may not get.
That said in the turns she sticks and we look forward to our 6 Hour Race this weekend.
Unrestricted on the Ring road course she'd run bellow 7 minutes easily. My guess 6:45.
In her street legal configuration she will be unrestricted and a lot faster than in her Race Spec. configuration.
Sadly the Factory supported Ferrari 458 GTC didn't show up.
The VLN lap record is something like 8:07, IIRC. I think it would have been in the big Manthey car, although it's possible it would have been in something else. The top Manthey car, intentionally, does not always show its hand.
Let's say it's 8:05 in effect, even if not officially.
The GP portion of the VLN circuit, in the fastest cars, is 'round about 1:25, leaving 6:40 on the NS during that fastest lap.
If anybody could get to within 5 secs of that, in a one-off car on which there has not been the opportunity to do a lot of tunnel testing or suspension development (that is to say, through no fault of the team's), and with drivers who, although very good, are not in the Lieb/Alzen/Mamerow league specific to the NS, one would be very surprised.
If you were to have some special tyres, and, as you say, a papal dispensation on air restrictors, maybe you'd have a chance, but I'd expect it to be tough. If you were to do an 8:15 on the full VLN, that would be something to be proud of. In fact, anything in the teens would be darn good.
One thing to keep in mind is how difficult it is to get even one clean lap out there. You've got 14.5 mi of circuit, and as many as 200 other cars on it, so it's actually quite rare to get a lap when there are no yellows, no slower cars that have to be got 'round, and, oh yes - when the circuit is dry.
This is why, at the start of any qualifying session, the fastest cars will be stacked up at the pit exit line, jockeying to be the first on the track. That could be their only chance all weekend to get a clean lap.
flemke said:
Although the few folks on here who have denigrated the video's lap-time are not on very solid ground, on the other hand I'd be surprised if you could get to a 6:45 equivalent, unless the organiser is being very supportive (which has certainly been known to happen - witness the blatant favouritism shown to the R8s).
The VLN lap record is something like 8:07, IIRC. I think it would have been in the big Manthey car, although it's possible it would have been in something else. The top Manthey car, intentionally, does not always show its hand.
Let's say it's 8:05 in effect, even if not officially.
The GP portion of the VLN circuit, in the fastest cars, is 'round about 1:25, leaving 6:40 on the NS during that fastest lap.
If anybody could get to within 5 secs of that, in a one-off car on which there has not been the opportunity to do a lot of tunnel testing or suspension development (that is to say, through no fault of the team's), and with drivers who, although very good, are not in the Lieb/Alzen/Mamerow league specific to the NS, one would be very surprised.
If you were to have some special tyres, and, as you say, a papal dispensation on air restrictors, maybe you'd have a chance, but I'd expect it to be tough. If you were to do an 8:15 on the full VLN, that would be something to be proud of. In fact, anything in the teens would be darn good.
One thing to keep in mind is how difficult it is to get even one clean lap out there. You've got 14.5 mi of circuit, and as many as 200 other cars on it, so it's actually quite rare to get a lap when there are no yellows, no slower cars that have to be got 'round, and, oh yes - when the circuit is dry.
This is why, at the start of any qualifying session, the fastest cars will be stacked up at the pit exit line, jockeying to be the first on the track. That could be their only chance all weekend to get a clean lap.
Not on the VLN course on the ROAD course, which as I've said is a lot shorter than the VLN course we race on where the 599FXX broke 7 minutes.The VLN lap record is something like 8:07, IIRC. I think it would have been in the big Manthey car, although it's possible it would have been in something else. The top Manthey car, intentionally, does not always show its hand.
Let's say it's 8:05 in effect, even if not officially.
The GP portion of the VLN circuit, in the fastest cars, is 'round about 1:25, leaving 6:40 on the NS during that fastest lap.
If anybody could get to within 5 secs of that, in a one-off car on which there has not been the opportunity to do a lot of tunnel testing or suspension development (that is to say, through no fault of the team's), and with drivers who, although very good, are not in the Lieb/Alzen/Mamerow league specific to the NS, one would be very surprised.
If you were to have some special tyres, and, as you say, a papal dispensation on air restrictors, maybe you'd have a chance, but I'd expect it to be tough. If you were to do an 8:15 on the full VLN, that would be something to be proud of. In fact, anything in the teens would be darn good.
One thing to keep in mind is how difficult it is to get even one clean lap out there. You've got 14.5 mi of circuit, and as many as 200 other cars on it, so it's actually quite rare to get a lap when there are no yellows, no slower cars that have to be got 'round, and, oh yes - when the circuit is dry.
This is why, at the start of any qualifying session, the fastest cars will be stacked up at the pit exit line, jockeying to be the first on the track. That could be their only chance all weekend to get a clean lap.
(6:50 I think)
I'm talking without any restriction or ballast as the 599FXX ran. In race form we run at 2750 lbs and 420HP. Without ballast we'd be bellow that and easily make 600+ hp. One day we may take a run at the Road course without ballast or restriction for fun but on the Race course all we're hoping for is to finish and have a good time.
Cheers
Edited by Napolis on Wednesday 30th March 01:58
Napolis said:
Once again the Ring lap times you are mentioning are on a much shorter course than we Race on which is the entire road course plus the GP track.
I think you're getting a little confused. Most people ARE talking about Nordschleife touristenfahrten times, which from your video shows a time of around 7.23 and 9 mins for the full VLN configuration. I'm sure you will agree that neither time is particularly impressive, although its understandable when you learn you are looking to sandbag in the hope of being given less restriction for the 24hr race.Napolis said:
As an aside P 4/5 Competizione is not really a 430 with a body kit. It's a fully engineered car with different aerodynamics, suspension geometry, specially developed tires by our sponsor Pirelli which are of quite different sizes than those used on 430 GTC's, different engine management, unique dampers, different diff/gearbox engineering, etc;etc;etc.
GT cars will all have their own damper and geo settings and the aero comes from the "body kit". So essentially its a 430 with a body kit and after market wheels, that's been re-mapped! 
Napolis said:
As an further aside does anyone think we'd run flat out at a public test or post a video of our best lap?
Doesn't look much like a "public" test day, and as the whole exercise seems to be a huge ego trip, it wouldn't surprise me if you did run flat out and post in on Youtube.Flemke is right regarding the 6.45 target time. I'd be surprised if you could get anywhere near that time without a massive amount of testing. The 599FXX is one of less than half a dozen production based car to break 7 mins.
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