F1 Tyre profiles ?

Author
Discussion

Harry H

Original Poster:

3,398 posts

157 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
Why is it that with road cars the more sporty the car the lower the profile of the tyres whereas in F1 they appear to be running on tyre profiles more likely to be found on a tractor.

A question that bugged me all the way through a rather epic Chinese GP

trickywoo

11,843 posts

231 months

Monday 18th April 2011
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More space for advertising.

pacificf1

92 posts

180 months

Monday 18th April 2011
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i have a f1 pacific team wheel and goodyear eagle tyre, size markings are 25.5*9.5-13.

hairykrishna

13,185 posts

204 months

Monday 18th April 2011
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They have effectively no give in the suspension I think - it's all in the tyres. I'm not sure why this is better...

Aizletree

12,429 posts

176 months

Monday 18th April 2011
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I think it's to do with being able to have more options for suspension setup. Make use of the natural spring of a larger profile tyre.

JR

12,722 posts

259 months

Monday 18th April 2011
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hairykrishna said:
They have effectively no give in the suspension I think - it's all in the tyres. I'm not sure why this is better...
It's not. History, politics and regulations.

GroundEffect

13,844 posts

157 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
They use this for their suspension to travel. Some open-wheel race cars (Indycars) have low profile tyres. I've never really heard an appropriate reason for it though...

RobM77

35,349 posts

235 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
F1 regs limit the wheel size to 13". The high profile is a way of enlarging (by lengthening) the contact patch whilst retaining the regulation wheel size. Road cars, by contrast, aren't limited by a fixed wheel size regulation and go for the larger wheel solution. Larger wheels are employed in other forms of racing where wheel size isn't limited, and because of sidewall flex, it's better to achieve the larger contact patch by maximising wheel size instead, whilst keeping the tyre profile small.

Silent1

19,761 posts

236 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
It's the rules, if the could run low profile tyres they would.

Tango13

8,455 posts

177 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
F1 teams are limited to quite a small rim size 13" IIRC. I think this is to force them to use small brakes to keep the braking distances realativly large. Also I'd imagine the much larger side wall helps provide some "give" in the rock hard suspension.

I'm probably talking bks and someone who knows what they are talking about will be along shortly


AbarthChris

2,259 posts

216 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
I think it is due to limiting brake sizes and contact patches.

It absolutely isn't about getting more 'give' as tyre flex isn't as controllable nor predictable as suspension travel. Designers would prefer larger wheels / lower profiles.

Harry H

Original Poster:

3,398 posts

157 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
Just seems a bit of a strange rule then to only have 13" rims.

If it's to keep the brake size down and therefore lengthen stopping distances it doesn't work very well as they seem to be able to lock up wheels relatively easily.

Why not have bigger wheels and make them use drum brakes

Tyre Smoke

23,018 posts

262 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
Harry H said:
Just seems a bit of a strange rule then to only have 13" rims.

If it's to keep the brake size down and therefore lengthen stopping distances it doesn't work very well as they seem to be able to lock up wheels relatively easily.

Why not have bigger wheels and make them use drum brakes
As stated before, it probably goes back to the start of F1 and limits the size of brake disc and caliper and therefore stopping ability. F1, whether you like it or not is all about development. Lots of F1 stuff over the years has filtered down to your Eurobox. There is absolutely no way that F1 would take a backward step in terms of technology and fit drum brakes.

JR

12,722 posts

259 months

Monday 18th April 2011
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Harry H said:
Just seems a bit of a strange rule then to only have 13" rims.
See my earlier reply. When the rule was introduced 13" was the standard wheel size for many cars: road and race; still is for small light weight cars like Caterhams. As the years went on and the tyre manufactuers dropped out no tyre manufacturer wanted to ditch all of their development technology so that a new guy would be competitive. The last decade or so though the rule could go with only one tyre manufacturer.

JR

12,722 posts

259 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
There is absolutely no way that F1 would take a backward step in terms of technology and fit drum brakes.
Although they did do away with full ground effect technology, active suspension, slick tyres...

Tyre Smoke

23,018 posts

262 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
JR said:
Although they did do away with full ground effect technology, active suspension, slick tyres...
Slicks are back and along with ground effect and active suspension were introduced to slow the cars down. They have decided to slow the cars with aero restrictions.

McSam

6,753 posts

176 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
JR said:
Tyre Smoke said:
There is absolutely no way that F1 would take a backward step in terms of technology and fit drum brakes.
Although they did do away with full ground effect technology, active suspension, slick tyres...
hehe

It wouldn't be about the technology, it would just be the sheer impossibility of keeping drum brakes cool for that sort of use - it would be incredibly hard to do. I'd heard about the 13" restriction too, I knew it had been around for a very long time, but does anyone know how long?

JR

12,722 posts

259 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
JR said:
Although they did do away with full ground effect technology, active suspension, slick tyres...
Slicks are back and along with ground effect and active suspension were introduced to slow the cars down. They have decided to slow the cars with aero restrictions.
Have they not still got the rear of the front wheels to the front of the rear wheels requirement? + skirts etc? My point was that they're not adverse to retro steps in the regulations.

paranoid airbag

2,679 posts

160 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
JR said:
It's not. History, politics and regulations.
yump - although it's been mentioned that there's a safety aspect as well with modern carbon brakes - much bigger callipers (in conjunction with grippier wheels) and drivers would be blacking out or losing retinas under the braking forces (I think - haven't seen reliable figures in a while, but they were close to 5G last time I checked, which is getting on for the limit for what humans can sustainably stand - higher braking forces have been survived, but not 5 times a minute). I can't be the only one who suspects that, had turbo's not been banned in F1 in the 80s/90s, you wouldn't be able to buy a n/a car now.

vrooom

3,763 posts

268 months

Monday 18th April 2011
quotequote all
big sidewall gives the car handling to be more "progressive" than snappy when it began to oversteer etc