fast camera free roads?
Discussion
pwig,
Can I suggest that going over 120 on ANY road in the British Isles is a really stupid thing to do, regardless of what you drive.
At those speeds, reaction distances become dangerously long...and brakes will take a LOT of room to slow you down (nearly 3x as far to stop as at 70mph!)
Seriously - go and do some trackdays, and if that's not enough, maybe start going to the 'Pod?!?
Can I suggest that going over 120 on ANY road in the British Isles is a really stupid thing to do, regardless of what you drive.
At those speeds, reaction distances become dangerously long...and brakes will take a LOT of room to slow you down (nearly 3x as far to stop as at 70mph!)
Seriously - go and do some trackdays, and if that's not enough, maybe start going to the 'Pod?!?
I can recommend Europe ... I drove to Portugal and Italy last year and I don't think I saw one speed camera or police speed radar check ... that's not to say I did anything outrageous speed wise, but it was just so much more relaxing feeling that you weren't having to look out for them all the time. Don't know if this helps ...
>> Edited by stevie111s on Thursday 30th September 16:45
>> Edited by stevie111s on Thursday 30th September 16:45
havoc said:GO TO BED MUM.......
pwig,
Can I suggest that going over 120 on ANY road in the British Isles is a really stupid thing to do, regardless of what you drive.
At those speeds, reaction distances become dangerously long...and brakes will take a LOT of room to slow you down (nearly 3x as far to stop as at 70mph!)
Seriously - go and do some trackdays, and if that's not enough, maybe start going to the 'Pod?!?
A car-on-car (or car-on-solid object) accident, at impact speeds in excess of 100mph, will be almost invariably fatal to all occupants. This includes modern cars with airbags and crumple zones. So if you're doing over 100mph, you will kill anyone you hit, stationary or moving. I mention others, as if YOU die it's your own stupid fault.
Still think it's big and clever to do those sort of speeds???
I've done those speeds myself...and realised the reactions needed to keep up with everything happening...it is hard to keep up above ~120. And quite honestly there is no socially acceptable justification for doing it on a public, single-carriageway road. Even if that road is in the Scots highlands and pretty empty - you can never guarantee it'll be fully empty.
I'm not a fan of speed cameras, or the current regime's approach to road enforcement - far from it. But if we're to have ANY credibility when arguing against it, we need to show responsibility for ourselves and our actions. Leave it to the chavs to act like idiots - lets show some maturity here!
Still think it's big and clever to do those sort of speeds???
I've done those speeds myself...and realised the reactions needed to keep up with everything happening...it is hard to keep up above ~120. And quite honestly there is no socially acceptable justification for doing it on a public, single-carriageway road. Even if that road is in the Scots highlands and pretty empty - you can never guarantee it'll be fully empty.
I'm not a fan of speed cameras, or the current regime's approach to road enforcement - far from it. But if we're to have ANY credibility when arguing against it, we need to show responsibility for ourselves and our actions. Leave it to the chavs to act like idiots - lets show some maturity here!
What about a clear dry deserted motorway then? Pretty rare I know. I have done those speeds on French autoroutes for hours at a time and there was never a problem judging hazards. Much lighter traffic than here of course, and one needs to lose a bit of speed when approaching and passing any more than one vehicle in case they pull into your path. In fact, in 1000 miles it happened twice, both times it was an English car.
you just need a sheep to stray from the verge to the road and you've had it, same goes for deer this time of year coming down to the roadside where it's warmer, but it doesn't matter if you're doing 120 or 60, the guy is just looking for good roads. the place to start is scotland, the a82 north is good, then up past inverness and ullapool. there's a guy on here who has a db9 who recently posted about his trip so its worht looking for that. apologies to the guy in question - i can't for the life of me remember his name!
rbryant - note I said "single-carriageway" - there are likely to be less hazards on a motorway, all traffic is headed in the same direction, and you have more manoeuvering room. So clearly the risk is lessened.
You've still gotta take responsibility if something does go wrong, though...
You've still gotta take responsibility if something does go wrong, though...
havoc said:
A car-on-car (or car-on-solid object) accident, at impact speeds in excess of 100mph, will be almost invariably fatal to all occupants. This includes modern cars with airbags and crumple zones.
Factually incorrect.
You might be in bother if you shut your eyes and have a direct impact into a brick wall at 100 mph, but in reality most car crashes aren't like that.
Most folks brake or swerve or both.
havoc said:
So if you're doing over 100mph, you will kill anyone you hit, stationary or moving. I mention others, as if YOU die it's your own stupid fault.
Also not true in practice.
havoc said:
Still think it's big and clever to do those sort of speeds???
My default cruise speed on the German autobahn is
130 mph. I get overtaken quite a bit.
It's not just a few loonies doing those sort of speeds.
The time before last I was in Bavaria, and a middle aged bloke and his wife were sitting in a VW diesel Passat estate at 120 mph, with a full load of logs in the back.
Lots of folks drive their V6 three litre people carriers at 110-120 mph, too.
havoc said:
I've done those speeds myself...and realised the reactions needed to keep up with everything happening...it is hard to keep up above ~120.
I agree that above 120 mph I am usually watching
what I am doing - but it doesn't take superman reaction
times to drive at that speed - 80 million Germans do it
all day every day.
havoc said:
And quite honestly there is no socially acceptable justification for doing it on a public, single-carriageway road.
Now that I can agree on.
havoc said:
I'm not a fan of speed cameras, or the current regime's approach to road enforcement - far from it. But if we're to have ANY credibility when arguing against it, we need to show responsibility for ourselves and our actions. Leave it to the chavs to act like idiots - lets show some maturity here!
I'ts interesting to note that the UK motorway speed limit hasn't changed for over 35 years, even though it is widely ignored.
havoc said:
pwig,
Can I suggest that going over 120 on ANY road in the British Isles is a really stupid thing to do, regardless of what you drive.
At those speeds, reaction distances become dangerously long...and brakes will take a LOT of room to slow you down (nearly 3x as far to stop as at 70mph!)
Seriously - go and do some trackdays, and if that's not enough, maybe start going to the 'Pod?!?
No, there are places where 150 is fine
miniandy said:
there's a guy on here who has a db9 who recently posted about his trip so its worht looking for that. apologies to the guy in question - i can't for the life of me remember his name!
That will undoubtedly have been Shadytree (Stuart). Contact him via the photo forum where he has just posted some shots... or the EuroHoon forum, where we all act very sensibly and drive in a likewise manner
.... ish. 
dcb,
some fair points - in my original post I was referring to single-carriageways (which is what PWIG seemed to be talking about). On a single-carriageway, even a glancing impact is likely to lead to a car/scenery interface at far too fast, while if some dozy *** ends up on the wrong side of the road heading towards you, where do you go???
"Most folks brake or swerve or both"
At 100mph, I don't think I'd be making any violent steering inputs - the results could be worse than doing nothing!?! Braking...there are a sizeable proportion (no stats to hand) of UK RTAs where at least one party didn't brake AT ALL.
But, being honest, you ARE right, in theory. I just wouldn't want to put it into practice!!!
We seem to agree that autobahns/M-ways are completely different, you'll usually be safer keeping up with the traffic (within reason and conditions allowing, obviously). But I personally wouldn't go above 120/130 unless there was NOTHING in sight...it only takes one numpty doing 70 to pull out without looking in his mirror...
I'm deliberately playing devils advocate here, and pointing out realistic "worst-cases".
My general point is that you need to apply judgement in what speed you travel at...that judgement will be completely different on a dual-carriageway to a single-carriageway, and on either, you need to think about visibility, braking distances, etc.
I just don't think that a couple of members have been displaying any real judgement at all, going by their posts here.
some fair points - in my original post I was referring to single-carriageways (which is what PWIG seemed to be talking about). On a single-carriageway, even a glancing impact is likely to lead to a car/scenery interface at far too fast, while if some dozy *** ends up on the wrong side of the road heading towards you, where do you go???
"Most folks brake or swerve or both"
At 100mph, I don't think I'd be making any violent steering inputs - the results could be worse than doing nothing!?! Braking...there are a sizeable proportion (no stats to hand) of UK RTAs where at least one party didn't brake AT ALL.
But, being honest, you ARE right, in theory. I just wouldn't want to put it into practice!!!
We seem to agree that autobahns/M-ways are completely different, you'll usually be safer keeping up with the traffic (within reason and conditions allowing, obviously). But I personally wouldn't go above 120/130 unless there was NOTHING in sight...it only takes one numpty doing 70 to pull out without looking in his mirror...
I'm deliberately playing devils advocate here, and pointing out realistic "worst-cases".
My general point is that you need to apply judgement in what speed you travel at...that judgement will be completely different on a dual-carriageway to a single-carriageway, and on either, you need to think about visibility, braking distances, etc.
I just don't think that a couple of members have been displaying any real judgement at all, going by their posts here.
havoc said:
dcb,
some fair points - in my original post I was referring to single-carriageways (which is what PWIG seemed to be talking about).
Fair enough - I missed that bit. I do tend to go off the deep end when folks start suggesting that high speed ON ITS OWN is trouble.
I've done tens of thousands of miles at over 120 mph, and only had a couple of small adventures.
havoc said:
"Most folks brake or swerve or both"
At 100mph, I don't think I'd be making any violent steering inputs
So you make the claim that you wouldn't do something that is instinctive and intuitive in a panic situation ?
havoc said:
But I personally wouldn't go above 120/130 unless there was NOTHING in sight...it only takes one numpty doing 70 to pull out without looking in his mirror...
This is where Germany and UK differ. UK always wants to accomodate the most stupid driver, ignoring the average or good driver. Mrs Miggins doing the knitting while driving I call it.
Germany recognises that on average, most folks on the autobahn don't want to be flattened by a couple of tons of car at 150+ mph, and so do look before they change lanes.
It occurs to me that driving standards may be higher in Germany too.
Plus - most folks who venture onto the Autobahns KNOW there're going to be some real fast-movers, as they've seen them for years...whereas in the UK, no-one really goes over the ton anymore, and (possibly as a result) there're a lot more people who don't use their mirrors. So doing those speeds in the UK IS actually higher risk.
I don't like that fact, and I believe that driving is a privilege, not a right, to the extent that if you can't be bothered to look around you when driving, you shouldn't be on the road. But the fact remains we have too many "white van men", who think that the mirrors on the side are only used to help you judge a tight gap when driving through it.
Add to which - everyone moves like sheep on UK m-ways, and anyone doing even 20mph above the average is probably privately "tutted" at by the flat-cap brigade.
Plus - most folks who venture onto the Autobahns KNOW there're going to be some real fast-movers, as they've seen them for years...whereas in the UK, no-one really goes over the ton anymore, and (possibly as a result) there're a lot more people who don't use their mirrors. So doing those speeds in the UK IS actually higher risk.
I don't like that fact, and I believe that driving is a privilege, not a right, to the extent that if you can't be bothered to look around you when driving, you shouldn't be on the road. But the fact remains we have too many "white van men", who think that the mirrors on the side are only used to help you judge a tight gap when driving through it.
Add to which - everyone moves like sheep on UK m-ways, and anyone doing even 20mph above the average is probably privately "tutted" at by the flat-cap brigade.
havoc said:
It occurs to me that driving standards may be higher in Germany too.
True, they are higher, but not by much.
havoc said:
Plus - most folks who venture onto the Autobahns KNOW there're going to be some real fast-movers, as they've seen them for years...
Home of Porsche, BMW and Mercedes Benz.
havoc said:
whereas in the UK, no-one really goes over the ton anymore, and (possibly as a result) there're a lot more people who don't use their mirrors.
I wouldn't say they don't use their mirrors, but a lot of folks do seem to take one look, decide I'm miles away, and then pull out.
A better driver would have two or three looks (to judge my speed) then decide to pull out or not.
havoc said:
if you can't be bothered to look around you when driving, you shouldn't be on the road.
Then 70% of UK drivers would not be on the road.
The trouble is, once you have reached a level of skill sufficient to pass the minimum Government standard to drive, then there is no incentive to be a better driver.
There's a whole lot more to good driving than merely passing the driving test.
havoc said:
Add to which - everyone moves like sheep on UK m-ways,
Don't they just. A couple of hours on the M1 is tedium.
Saw a lovely silver 911 the other day on the M1 - being driven with appaling lane discipline by a young lady. She didn't like it when I flashed her a few times, after she'd been in lane 3 with lane 2 empty, for 10+ miles.
Nice car, crap driving - no point being a better driver. You won't get there any faster.
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