fast camera free roads?
Discussion
Yep, you're spot-on...and sadly, that is the attitude of far too many people nowadays - they don't feel they need to be "good" at anything.
[Cooking is the same - how many people almost BOAST how poor they are at cooking, and just buy ready-meals from the supermarket or M&S.]
Back to cars - there really is NO INCENTIVE to improve, and coppers aren't going to point out errors anymore, because those few trafpol who still exist will clearly focus on the major problems, or speeding!
I remember when I was ~18, driving round Leicester at night (first time in city). I went down a no-entry by mistake (it didn't LOOK like a no-entry, must have missed the sign)...Police van was following me for ~ 1 mile, and i kept hearing this horn beeping - finally realised it must be the copper, pulled over, and just got a talking to about my observation...guess what, it worked!!!
But there aren't the resources to do that nowadays, and no-one on the roads will accept criticism of their driving from a stranger - it's worse than telling someone they've got an ugly baby!!!
[Cooking is the same - how many people almost BOAST how poor they are at cooking, and just buy ready-meals from the supermarket or M&S.]
Back to cars - there really is NO INCENTIVE to improve, and coppers aren't going to point out errors anymore, because those few trafpol who still exist will clearly focus on the major problems, or speeding!
I remember when I was ~18, driving round Leicester at night (first time in city). I went down a no-entry by mistake (it didn't LOOK like a no-entry, must have missed the sign)...Police van was following me for ~ 1 mile, and i kept hearing this horn beeping - finally realised it must be the copper, pulled over, and just got a talking to about my observation...guess what, it worked!!!
But there aren't the resources to do that nowadays, and no-one on the roads will accept criticism of their driving from a stranger - it's worse than telling someone they've got an ugly baby!!!
havoc said:
dcb,
But I personally wouldn't go above 120/130 unless there was NOTHING in sight...
If your driving through thick fog there might not be anything in sight but i wouldnt recommend trying to do 120 there.
Same goes for roads with blind bends.
Sorry, i just felt like saying something daft.
Bernie
Edited to say roads rather than raods.
>> Edited by busta on Tuesday 30th November 12:32
The A70 is a fun road to drive from edinburgh, under the M74 and on to Dumfires, but look out for the tousists, (police if your pushing it), and tractors, there are a lot of accidents, even the speed limit is too fast for a lot of it.
It is possible to do it in an hour, but slitting your wrists is a quicker way to commit suicide!
(If you go off the road at the 'beef tub' for example you have a long time to think before you hit the bottom)
It is possible to do it in an hour, but slitting your wrists is a quicker way to commit suicide!
(If you go off the road at the 'beef tub' for example you have a long time to think before you hit the bottom)
mcerd1 said:
The A70 is a fun road to drive from edinburgh, under the M74 and on to Dumfires
I thought it went the A70 went from Edinburgh to Ayr. Anyway, I normally just go from the M74 to Edinburgh flat. When I'm their the brakes are pretty much shot, but still capable on the return journey. I really do think I should calm down a bit next time, as I've had a few close calls with the back end in a E46 318- sounds hard to believe!
Baz
Just about any road in County Durham will be suitable, one of my favourites though is the A689. The A68 is pretty decent in places too. The A688 looks like it has promise but I've never tried it yet.
The A686 is my favourite road, that one is in Cumbria, but watch out - there can sometimes be a stray talivan on that road - but on the whole, its quite a twisty road anyway, so its still the kind of road you can drive at 60 mph and have great fun
The B6318 (Military Road) coming out of Heddon on the Wall near Newcastle is good for high speeds if thats your bag, some very long straights and some rollercoaster style dips... good fun
As said, Northumberland has some good roads - the A696 is a giggle in places, and if you come off the Military Road and find your way to the B6320 thats a good road as long as you can avoid Sunday driving numpties. That road will take you up to Kielder Resevoir if you follow the signs to it, and is an excellent fun route, good corners to get sideways on. Takes you into Scotland, but watch out for deers especially at sunset - I nearly wrote off my vRS when one ran out from the trees around there!
The A686 is my favourite road, that one is in Cumbria, but watch out - there can sometimes be a stray talivan on that road - but on the whole, its quite a twisty road anyway, so its still the kind of road you can drive at 60 mph and have great fun
The B6318 (Military Road) coming out of Heddon on the Wall near Newcastle is good for high speeds if thats your bag, some very long straights and some rollercoaster style dips... good fun
As said, Northumberland has some good roads - the A696 is a giggle in places, and if you come off the Military Road and find your way to the B6320 thats a good road as long as you can avoid Sunday driving numpties. That road will take you up to Kielder Resevoir if you follow the signs to it, and is an excellent fun route, good corners to get sideways on. Takes you into Scotland, but watch out for deers especially at sunset - I nearly wrote off my vRS when one ran out from the trees around there!
havoc said:
Can I suggest that going over 120 on ANY road in the British Isles is a really stupid thing to do, regardless of what you drive.
You can offer that as an opinion, but that is all it is, and IMHO it is not a rational one at that. To categorically rule out any safe prospect of driving faster than 120 mph on any road in the UK is simply not reasonable. That speed could safely be exceeded in a great many places in suitable conditions, though I accept that traffic conditions may prevent you from maintaining it for long.
havoc said:
At those speeds, reaction distances become dangerously long...and brakes will take a LOT of room to slow you down (nearly 3x as far to stop as at 70mph!)
I would suggest that if you place yourself in situations where fast reactions are likely to be called into play, then high speed driving is perhaps not appropriate in those cases. For my own purposes I always try to avoid the need to take urgent action, and it appears to work.
It has long been my conclusion that high speed driving can be enjoyed with very little risk of trouble, if you confine it to suitable circumstances and apply the right techniques. HTH.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
Can I suggest that going over 120 on ANY road in the British Isles is a really stupid thing to do, regardless of what you drive.
You can offer that as an opinion, but that is all it is, and IMHO it is not a rational one at that. To categorically rule out any safe prospect of driving faster than 120 mph on any road in the UK is simply not reasonable. That speed could safely be exceeded in a great many places in suitable conditions, though I accept that traffic conditions may prevent you from maintaining it for long.
I agree...
If anybody needs a demonstration, just gimme a camcorder!
Traffic conditions...hmm, maybe you just hit on the nub of my argument there!!!
I'm not saying the road/car combination won't be safe on a motorway at 120mph. But how often, aside from the hours of say midnight to 5am, will ANY UK road (where the road itself is safe enough) be quiet enough??? It's just not sensible, IMHO.
At 120mph you and your car have 4 times the Kinetic Energy as at 60mph, or twice the Energy as at 85mph. This needs to be dissipated by the brakes. Makes stopping distances rather long.
And in case you were going to talk about derestricted Autobahns, the German insurers void cover if the insured was exceeding 200kph (about 124mph). Wonder why...?
I'm not saying the road/car combination won't be safe on a motorway at 120mph. But how often, aside from the hours of say midnight to 5am, will ANY UK road (where the road itself is safe enough) be quiet enough??? It's just not sensible, IMHO.
At 120mph you and your car have 4 times the Kinetic Energy as at 60mph, or twice the Energy as at 85mph. This needs to be dissipated by the brakes. Makes stopping distances rather long.
And in case you were going to talk about derestricted Autobahns, the German insurers void cover if the insured was exceeding 200kph (about 124mph). Wonder why...?
havoc said:
But how often, aside from the hours of say midnight to 5am, will ANY UK road (where the road itself is safe enough) be quiet enough??? It's just not sensible, IMHO.
Every time I go on the 4 lane each way section of the A1 south of Peterborough it seems very quiet.
It's a wide road, and it can absorb a lot of traffic. 120 mph would be no problem. 150 mph would be achievable.
I am reminded of the German 911 driver travelling up the A1 to Newcastle. He got an 800 quid fine for driving at what he considered a reasonable and prudent 150 mph - and the A1 was only two lanes each way then.
He really didn't see what the fuss was all about - bet he hasn't visited UK again.
havoc said:
At 120mph you and your car have 4 times the Kinetic Energy as at 60mph, or twice the Energy as at 85mph. This needs to be dissipated by the brakes. Makes stopping distances rather long.
I think most of us have at least a basic grasp of GCSE physics.
havoc said:
And in case you were going to talk about derestricted Autobahns, the German insurers void cover if the insured was exceeding 200kph (about 124mph). Wonder why...?
I'm not sure this is true. Lots of folks on the German autobahn do more than 200 kph, some of them I have seen in the rain going faster than this.
If insurance were invalid merely for going fast, I think a lot fewer autobahn drivers would be going fast.
Driving fast *and* badly - now in that case I can believe insurance might be invalid.
But if you have an accident at those speeds, it could be very easy to suggest you were driving badly!
After all, if you feel competent and confident enough to drive at those speeds, then you should be able to avoid accidents at those speeds too.
[Note: I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's what an insurance co. would say.]
My main point, which I seem to be being dragged away from, was that at over say ~120mph (unless the road is empty), the differential between you and another car on the road (assuming dual-carriageway here) is so great that it becomes quite dangerous...and be honest, do you trust the average UK driver to:-
a) drive capably;
b) look in their mirrors; and
c) not do anything stupid?
>> Edited by havoc on Sunday 16th January 10:49
After all, if you feel competent and confident enough to drive at those speeds, then you should be able to avoid accidents at those speeds too.
[Note: I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's what an insurance co. would say.]
My main point, which I seem to be being dragged away from, was that at over say ~120mph (unless the road is empty), the differential between you and another car on the road (assuming dual-carriageway here) is so great that it becomes quite dangerous...and be honest, do you trust the average UK driver to:-
a) drive capably;
b) look in their mirrors; and
c) not do anything stupid?
>> Edited by havoc on Sunday 16th January 10:49
All this braking talk is nonsense anyway.
OK, 60mph, 1 unit of energy.
120mph, 4 units of energy.
When I normally drive around, I can honestly say I have probably only ever slammed on about 3 or 4 times in 8 years of driving. OK, I did a few times on my driving lessons
Now, in everyday driving, even when I'm making swift progress, I ALWAYS brake at a given level. If I'm trundling through traffic at 40mph, I brake for corners at maybe 0.2g decelleration. When I'm braking down from 85mph say, I do it at the same amount. I just start braking ALOT sooner.
Imagine someone looking ahead a long way going 80mph. Sheep jumps out 100m ahead. By the time I hit it, since I saw it jump out, I can be braking so I am aiming for a full stop at the point the sheep is.
Someone who you tend to follow on Sundays, looking at the 1m of tarmac that lies infront of them only, will likely see the sheep by the time it's 10m infront of them. Since they are going a "safe" 40mph, they end up hitting the sheep as they paniked and locked up their tyres.
OK, maybe a bit biased there, as slow drivers can be observant too, but I know, in general, the "I'm going slow so I'm safe" brigade see bugger all ahead, and I'm braking for trouble ahead 10 seconds before they slam on at the last minute...
When I used to commute a long way to work, some of it over moor roads near Beckwithshaw and Harrogate, I could see perfectly well a whole km ahead in areas, and was keeping a good eye open, and managed a calm and in my opinion collected 100mph in areas on my way to work everyday. Maybe if it was for just 3 seconds before lifting off to go to 70mph for a corner or rise in the road before accelerating again, it WAS possible and safe for me.
If people can't judge what is safe themselves, and need to be nannied around, then driving skills really are on the way out, and we'll start needing 40, 35,30,25,20,15,10,5mph signs as we approach roundabouts, just to remind us that we need to slow down. Maybe even put big concrete grooves at corners so we don't need to steer?
People have brains, some people can crash and kill at 40mph simply because they don't pay attention. Others can kill at 80mph because they use speed inappropriately.
In both cases, it's the drivers inappropriate driving attitude at that given time.
Why whine on about speed so much when we see people doing just as dangerous things like overtaking in top gear over about 500m, straddling double whites round blind corners, going through the lights on yellow or even red, not indicating anywhere, driving at 40mph in a national, and then staying at 40mph trhough the 30mph zones (oh so safe and aware i must say)...
But still, lets just focus on people who judge they can go a little faster now and again, who are actually bothering to judge for themselves and make decisions. Lets ignore all those people who don't actually know how to drive, and can't judge bugger all, and don't understand how them roundabouts work!
As for fast roads, erm, well North Yorkshire has no camera's, and there aren't that many police around. Keep a good eye out ahead and behind and of course on the road ahead, and you can't go far wrong!
And as always remember to slow down when other drivers are around, makes it safer if anything does happen when another party is involved!
Dave
OK, 60mph, 1 unit of energy.
120mph, 4 units of energy.
When I normally drive around, I can honestly say I have probably only ever slammed on about 3 or 4 times in 8 years of driving. OK, I did a few times on my driving lessons
Now, in everyday driving, even when I'm making swift progress, I ALWAYS brake at a given level. If I'm trundling through traffic at 40mph, I brake for corners at maybe 0.2g decelleration. When I'm braking down from 85mph say, I do it at the same amount. I just start braking ALOT sooner.
Imagine someone looking ahead a long way going 80mph. Sheep jumps out 100m ahead. By the time I hit it, since I saw it jump out, I can be braking so I am aiming for a full stop at the point the sheep is.
Someone who you tend to follow on Sundays, looking at the 1m of tarmac that lies infront of them only, will likely see the sheep by the time it's 10m infront of them. Since they are going a "safe" 40mph, they end up hitting the sheep as they paniked and locked up their tyres.
OK, maybe a bit biased there, as slow drivers can be observant too, but I know, in general, the "I'm going slow so I'm safe" brigade see bugger all ahead, and I'm braking for trouble ahead 10 seconds before they slam on at the last minute...
When I used to commute a long way to work, some of it over moor roads near Beckwithshaw and Harrogate, I could see perfectly well a whole km ahead in areas, and was keeping a good eye open, and managed a calm and in my opinion collected 100mph in areas on my way to work everyday. Maybe if it was for just 3 seconds before lifting off to go to 70mph for a corner or rise in the road before accelerating again, it WAS possible and safe for me.
If people can't judge what is safe themselves, and need to be nannied around, then driving skills really are on the way out, and we'll start needing 40, 35,30,25,20,15,10,5mph signs as we approach roundabouts, just to remind us that we need to slow down. Maybe even put big concrete grooves at corners so we don't need to steer?
People have brains, some people can crash and kill at 40mph simply because they don't pay attention. Others can kill at 80mph because they use speed inappropriately.
In both cases, it's the drivers inappropriate driving attitude at that given time.
Why whine on about speed so much when we see people doing just as dangerous things like overtaking in top gear over about 500m, straddling double whites round blind corners, going through the lights on yellow or even red, not indicating anywhere, driving at 40mph in a national, and then staying at 40mph trhough the 30mph zones (oh so safe and aware i must say)...
But still, lets just focus on people who judge they can go a little faster now and again, who are actually bothering to judge for themselves and make decisions. Lets ignore all those people who don't actually know how to drive, and can't judge bugger all, and don't understand how them roundabouts work!
As for fast roads, erm, well North Yorkshire has no camera's, and there aren't that many police around. Keep a good eye out ahead and behind and of course on the road ahead, and you can't go far wrong!
And as always remember to slow down when other drivers are around, makes it safer if anything does happen when another party is involved!
Dave
Had an awesome drive a few months back, from Inverness across to Kyle of Lochalsh (only in a Pug 406 hire car though). Late night, perfect conditions, fantastic road. Only saw three other cars and one lorry the whole way. What nearly did for me, though, was the suicidal deer - they really did seem to be waiting for a car before they jumped onto the tarmac. Mind you, fair enough, I wouldn't want to live in a Scottish forest either - especially if I couldn't drive........
havoc said:
My main point, which I seem to be being dragged away from, was that at over say ~120mph (unless the road is empty), the differential between you and another car on the road (assuming dual-carriageway here) is so great that it becomes quite dangerous...and be honest, do you trust the average UK driver to:-
a) drive capably;
b) look in their mirrors; and
c) not do anything stupid?
a) Most or all drivers have passed their test. In the UK it's a crap test, but it's a test.
b) most Brit drivers only seem to look once. They reasonably assume that other traffic isn't doing much more than the speed limit. Change the limit, they will learn to look more.
c) They have their own self preservation to help them. People are capable of thinking for themselves, although if you listen to UK Gov you may form a different opinion.
You seem to be advocating the idea that folks need to drive slowly for the protection of idiots and other poor drivers.
As I see it the only real problem is #2. A bit of education, and a few years of 80 mph limit, should get all of them looking twice.
And in the meantime we get a fair few fatal crashes caused by people doing 40+mph greater than the middle-lane traffic and some numpty pulling out WITHOUT looking (and I've seen that happen too often by far) in front of them...cue big pile up!
You can't say "it'll be OK in a few years" - just not realistic. And what has 80mph got to do with 120mph plus anyway???
You can't say "it'll be OK in a few years" - just not realistic. And what has 80mph got to do with 120mph plus anyway???
havoc said:
And in the meantime we get a fair few fatal crashes caused by people doing 40+mph greater than the middle-lane traffic and some numpty pulling out WITHOUT looking (and I've seen that happen too often by far) in front of them...cue big pile up!
Maybe. But it doesn't exactly happen a lot now does it ?
About 200 folks a year die on UK motorways. All the scientific evidence suggests that upping the limit to 80 mph will reduce those 200 a year substantially, mostly because fewer folks will fall asleep at the wheel.
Even if the scientific evidence is wrong, and your emotive argument is correct, how many do you think the deaths will go up by ? 20 %, 50 % 100 % ?
Even at 50%, that's only another 100 dying on the roads, out of 3,500 deaths per year on all types of roads.
While it is clear that every death is a tradegy, it is also clear there is a trade off of most folks' time versus the deaths of a very few.
havoc said:
You can't say "it'll be OK in a few years" - just not realistic.
Sounds very realistic to me. Lots of traffic already goes faster than that anyway. It's more about legalising what's already happening than allowing folks to go faster.
I suggest an interval of a few years because most Brits don't seem to like change. Got to allow the Daily Moron and other "newspapers" their chance to fill their front pages with "Death Horror High Speed Crash" headlines.
havoc said:
And what has 80mph got to do with 120mph plus anyway???
An 80 mph limit for a few years is a stepping stone to no limits.
I am NOT arguing against an increase to 80mph...which negates a lot of the arguments you put forward. I am arguing against 120mph, which is completely different.
Please put forward arguments in favour of 120mph, NOT put forward arguments for 80mph and then imply I'm against them.
Are you sure you're not a politician?!?
As for the stepping-stone argument...it doesn't hold water, because:-
1) Many cars are unsafe at 100mph, let alone 120mph...yet the owners will see the speed limit as a target, not as a maximum, or the owners won't know their cars limits, or won't care because they're a young lad/lass out to prove something.
2) Reaction times, stopping distances, speed differentials to HGVs - none of these change at 120mph regardless of how gradually you approach it.
3) Increasing limits gradually will only serve to confuse people, and will substantially increase costs - resigning, reprinting publications like the Highway Code, etc...
Please put forward arguments in favour of 120mph, NOT put forward arguments for 80mph and then imply I'm against them.
Are you sure you're not a politician?!?
As for the stepping-stone argument...it doesn't hold water, because:-
1) Many cars are unsafe at 100mph, let alone 120mph...yet the owners will see the speed limit as a target, not as a maximum, or the owners won't know their cars limits, or won't care because they're a young lad/lass out to prove something.
2) Reaction times, stopping distances, speed differentials to HGVs - none of these change at 120mph regardless of how gradually you approach it.
3) Increasing limits gradually will only serve to confuse people, and will substantially increase costs - resigning, reprinting publications like the Highway Code, etc...
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