Potholes

[CoolHands]

I was on a bus today (the horror) (London), one road was like the boneshaker they use at vehicle testing grounds

Hope the chassis is well made, it was a new electric one so god knows how much it weighs
Edit apparently 12.6 tonnes

Edited by CoolHands on Tuesday 2nd April 09:21

[RazerSauber]

I saw a video yesterday of pothole repair which appeared to be some sort of large spray gun attached to a truck that filled the potholes in pretty quickly. The video was awful though. There were still loose chunks in the pothole and the chippings left on the surface were awful. You can just tell it's going to be a bodge and last about 10 minutes, with many of the comments stating the same. Unfortunately, it was a Facebook short/reel/whatever so I can't find it again now.

The local cowboys near me managed to fill a series of potholes in Jan and they failed that quickly that they ended up resurfacing the road in March. They're literally throwing money away. I know companies get greedy when it comes to Gov work but surely they'd have to include something about the quality and longevity of repairs?

A new one has opened up not far from me. A good 2 inches deep and a good 2 feet long by a foot wide. I've reported it, let's see how many years that takes to fix. It's right next to a school so probably this decade..

[TimmyMallett]

swisstoni said:

I suppose it’d depend on how long they’ve had that ‘plan’ and failed to act on it.
These things take a while to organise but you’d expect something dangerous to be dealt with promptly.

If it hasn’t, there might be an argument to be had?

Devils advocate would counter with the fact that in this case, its an unlit fairly busy DC, with no pedestrian access, so to repair it safely would be no quick patch and go. It would appear that it's been patched a few times previously, and, unsurprisingly, they never hold. Having 35 profile tyres doesn't help my case

[CoolHands]

RazerSauber said:

I know companies get greedy when it comes to Gov work but surely they'd have to include something about the quality and longevity of repairs?

Don’t think so. As I’ve posted before I looked at Brent’s contract. It’s an initial 7 year contract with O’Hara (for lot 1), and same deal for lot 2 with GW Highways; both with option to extend to 10 years. So we get what we get for at least the next 7 years. Ain’t nobody checking nothing.

[Riley Blue]

CoolHands said:

RazerSauber said:

I know companies get greedy when it comes to Gov work but surely they'd have to include something about the quality and longevity of repairs?

Don’t think so. As I’ve posted before I looked at Brent’s contract. It’s an initial 7 year contract with O’Hara (for lot 1), and same deal for lot 2 with GW Highways; both with option to extend to 10 years. So we get what we get for at least the next 7 years. Ain’t nobody checking nothing.

My local highways authority (Derbyshire County Council) has a manual for road repairs showing the standard to which they should be done. I've no idea if or how repairs are checked but here's the link to it:
https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/site-elements/docume...

[swisstoni]

Riley Blue said:

CoolHands said:

RazerSauber said:

I know companies get greedy when it comes to Gov work but surely they'd have to include something about the quality and longevity of repairs?

Don’t think so. As I’ve posted before I looked at Brent’s contract. It’s an initial 7 year contract with O’Hara (for lot 1), and same deal for lot 2 with GW Highways; both with option to extend to 10 years. So we get what we get for at least the next 7 years. Ain’t nobody checking nothing.

My local highways authority (Derbyshire County Council) has a manual for road repairs showing the standard to which they should be done. I've no idea if or how repairs are checked but here's the link to it:
https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/site-elements/docume...

Probably get a contractor in to inspect. Otherwise it would require a council employee to put some clothes on and actually visit the site.

[Pentino191]

swisstoni said:

Probably get a contractor in to inspect. Otherwise it would require a council employee to put some clothes on and actually visit the site.

That's their damn job, they better do it at least once a year but they better do it!

[MB140]

This was parked up on my mother’s estate. Doing about 30 mph when it hit this pothole. Both tyres and wheels damaged (wheels buckled on the inner rim.

[chemistry]

I must say that I the roads are falling apart at an exponential rate; not just country roads but even the M4 has some massive potholes. In addition, roads seem to be crumbling at the edges, with long/continuous 'potholes'/gaps where the road meets the verge. In a car with low profile tyres, driving is becoming like Mariokart, having to constantly look for and dodge around these hazards.

I've reported serval locally that I see when out walking (which to be fair, have been patched within a week - thank you Wiltshire council) but it's just not possible to do when driving. As other have noted, Waze is pretty good at logging the worst ones so in an ideal world councils could use that data...

More I really hope folks are managing to make successful claims for wheel/tyre against the relevant councils, to encourage them to fix these hazards!!!

[Tigerj]

Not defending them at all. But I know of one council which gets more complaints about any road closures to fix potholes than about potholes themselves.

This plays into some of the reason why patching is done.

[Swervin_Mervin]

chemistry said:

I must say that I the roads are falling apart at an exponential rate; not just country roads but even the M4 has some massive potholes. In addition, roads seem to be crumbling at the edges, with long/continuous 'potholes'/gaps where the road meets the verge. In a car with low profile tyres, driving is becoming like Mariokart, having to constantly look for and dodge around these hazards.

I've reported serval locally that I see when out walking (which to be fair, have been patched within a week - thank you Wiltshire council) but it's just not possible to do when driving. As other have noted, Waze is pretty good at logging the worst ones so in an ideal world councils could use that data...

More I really hope folks are managing to make successful claims for wheel/tyre against the relevant councils, to encourage them to fix these hazards!!!

A lot of it is simply down to the awful weather. Prolonged wet periods, especially this year, are causing havoc. I've been through several areas of the country where, in rural areas in particular, the fields/surrounding land is so waterlogged that it's just washing around the edges of the roads. This then starts to wash away the sub-surface materials and lead to failures. The only places I've been where this isn't so prevalent are those with roadside drainage ditches, but they tend to be in the historically wetter areas of the country.

[Digga]

Tigerj said:

Not defending them at all. But I know of one council which gets more complaints about any road closures to fix potholes than about potholes themselves.

This plays into some of the reason why patching is done.

Whilse the local council fks about re-patching the already re-patched bits of rice crispies and treacle, the good folks at the Nurburgrung have completely re-surfaced the whole Aremberg to Adaneaur 'Foxholes' section. Properly.

[PaulD86]

Digga said:

Whilse the local council fks about re-patching the already re-patched bits of rice crispies and treacle, the good folks at the Nurburgrung have completely re-surfaced the whole Aremberg to Adaneaur 'Foxholes' section. Properly.

I haven't dug for exact figures but a quick look suggests 225,000 tourist laps/a year recently. 30-35 Euros per lap. Going with the lower that is 6.75M Euros, £5.79M or around £340,000/mile. My local authority is funded to the tune of around £8,900/mile of carriageway.

A mile of average width single carriageway (6m width) costs around £336,000 assuming planing off the top 40mm and relaying in HRA (hot rolled asphalt) and allowing for traffic management, resetting ironworks etc. That's assuming work done in house and many contractors would be a lot more - there is some regional variation in costs.

These are very rough figures, but it shows the difference.

[Digga]

PaulD86 said:

I haven't dug for exact figures but a quick look suggests 225,000 tourist laps/a year recently. 30-35 Euros per lap. Going with the lower that is 6.75M Euros, £5.79M or around £340,000/mile. My local authority is funded to the tune of around £8,900/mile of carriageway.

A mile of average width single carriageway (6m width) costs around £336,000 assuming planing off the top 40mm and relaying in HRA (hot rolled asphalt) and allowing for traffic management, resetting ironworks etc. That's assuming work done in house and many contractors would be a lot more - there is some regional variation in costs.

These are very rough figures, but it shows the difference.

TF money pays for a whole lot more than just blacktop. There's the barriers, track marshalls, the new camera surveillance system, etc. etc. etc.

[Forester1965]

Swervin_Mervin said:

A lot of it is simply down to the awful weather. Prolonged wet periods, especially this year, are causing havoc. I've been through several areas of the country where, in rural areas in particular, the fields/surrounding land is so waterlogged that it's just washing around the edges of the roads. This then starts to wash away the sub-surface materials and lead to failures. The only places I've been where this isn't so prevalent are those with roadside drainage ditches, but they tend to be in the historically wetter areas of the country.

We're incredibly lucky it's been a mild winter. If we'd had heavy freezes following prolonged wet weather the roads in their current state would become toast.

I think we're storing up big problems that are only just beginning to show.

[PaulD86]

Digga said:

PaulD86 said:

I haven't dug for exact figures but a quick look suggests 225,000 tourist laps/a year recently. 30-35 Euros per lap. Going with the lower that is 6.75M Euros, £5.79M or around £340,000/mile. My local authority is funded to the tune of around £8,900/mile of carriageway.

A mile of average width single carriageway (6m width) costs around £336,000 assuming planing off the top 40mm and relaying in HRA (hot rolled asphalt) and allowing for traffic management, resetting ironworks etc. That's assuming work done in house and many contractors would be a lot more - there is some regional variation in costs.

These are very rough figures, but it shows the difference.

TF money pays for a whole lot more than just blacktop. There's the barriers, track marshalls, the new camera surveillance system, etc. etc. etc.

Carriageway funding pays for a lot more than blacktop. There's draingage, traffic signals, street lighting, vehicle restrain systems, pedestrian restraint systems, line marking, scoot loops etc. The Nordschleife also has other income streams. My point is that you're comparing apples and oranges, but even at a very basic level there is an ovbiously enormous difference in funding - using my crude figures, near 40 times the funding per mile.

[Pit Pony]

sxmwht said:

Councils allegedly receives a pothole complaint every 40-odd seconds on average. I think they're getting enough!

In 2018, they also patched (probably poorly) a pothole every 17 seconds.

If those mathematics are right, they should have fixed every pothole by now.

[dinkel]

chemistry said:

I must say that the roads are falling apart at an exponential rate; not just country roads but even the M4 has some massive potholes. (…)
More I really hope folks are managing to make successful claims for wheel/tyre against the relevant councils, to encourage them to fix these hazards!!!

Swervin_Mervin said:

A lot of it is simply down to the awful weather. Prolonged wet periods, especially this year, are causing havoc.

I think there are more factors which help to desintegrate tarmac:

- cars are getting heavier
- more trucks, lorries and vans driving the roads
- EV...
- road materials need to be produced with less energy and less CO2
- bigger tyres and high power and chauffeurs are not getting better

[Digga]

dinkel said:

chemistry said:

I must say that the roads are falling apart at an exponential rate; not just country roads but even the M4 has some massive potholes. (…)
More I really hope folks are managing to make successful claims for wheel/tyre against the relevant councils, to encourage them to fix these hazards!!!

Swervin_Mervin said:

A lot of it is simply down to the awful weather. Prolonged wet periods, especially this year, are causing havoc.

I think there are more factors which help to desintegrate tarmac:

- cars are getting heavier
- more trucks, lorries and vans driving the roads
- EV...
- road materials need to be produced with less energy and less CO2
- bigger tyres and high power and chauffeurs are not getting better

In the UK, on many A and B roads, a significant change has been the advent of the large, 4x4 farm tractor and its use as a defacto heavy hauler. The combination of axle weight, torque, speed and percussive impact from the tyre treads is hugely damaging.

[dinkel]

Also, these vehicles are so freaking wide it's uneasy to pass!