3 weeks driving in Italy...suggestions
Discussion
As the title says, me and the wife are planning a driving trip to Italy at the beginning of may in my Mini GP and wondered what you thought of this rough itinerary and where I may be going wrong. I've never been to italy by the way, so any suggestions about there or en route would be great.
I thought it would be nice to head down through Belgium and Luxembourg from Calais simply to tick them off the list of countries visited, then head into Germany to do some of the Black Forest.
Straight down through Switzerland to Lugarno (or would it be more scenic doing the stelvio pass?) across to Lake Como, Bellagio, Lake Garda and then Verona. Would also love to see the cars before the start of the Mille Miglia in Brescia but not sure how this will fit in with our dates.
From there down to Modena to the Ferrari museum, Florence and Siena and then south to the Amalfi coast. We'd then go up the west coast to Portofino. My wife also wants to finish off the trip, if we have time by seeing Monaco and St Tropez before heading up through the French Alps (is there a road called pass de grande alps) and finally Champagne.
I realise it sounds like a lot to pack in. Is it feasible in 3 weeks without feeling rushed? Would it also be stretching it to add Puglia and one of Sicily, Sardinia or Corsica to the mix?
Are there likely to be any roads closed at this time of year?
Any advice greatly appreciated
Cheers
I thought it would be nice to head down through Belgium and Luxembourg from Calais simply to tick them off the list of countries visited, then head into Germany to do some of the Black Forest.
Straight down through Switzerland to Lugarno (or would it be more scenic doing the stelvio pass?) across to Lake Como, Bellagio, Lake Garda and then Verona. Would also love to see the cars before the start of the Mille Miglia in Brescia but not sure how this will fit in with our dates.
From there down to Modena to the Ferrari museum, Florence and Siena and then south to the Amalfi coast. We'd then go up the west coast to Portofino. My wife also wants to finish off the trip, if we have time by seeing Monaco and St Tropez before heading up through the French Alps (is there a road called pass de grande alps) and finally Champagne.
I realise it sounds like a lot to pack in. Is it feasible in 3 weeks without feeling rushed? Would it also be stretching it to add Puglia and one of Sicily, Sardinia or Corsica to the mix?
Are there likely to be any roads closed at this time of year?
Any advice greatly appreciated
Cheers
dI went to Tuscany on honeymoon and loved it. Flew down there though to Pisa. It's got the tower which is surrounded by cheap sales stalls and expensive/not that brilliant eateries so I'd avoid the place.
Florence was an excellent couple of days but very busy. Drove from there to Sienna which had the best bits of Florence without the crowds.
South of Sienna the roads were awesome. We spent a week near Montalcino and Montepulciano - empty, smooth ribbons of tarmac heaven
In a 106 hire car 
As much as I'd recommend the area there's so much to do there you could take 3 or 4 days to get there and back with the rest in Tuscany, Umbria etc. With just 3 weeks I think you'd be better staying further north (alps etc) and getting the most out of what they have to offer
Hope it helps!
Longers
Florence was an excellent couple of days but very busy. Drove from there to Sienna which had the best bits of Florence without the crowds.
South of Sienna the roads were awesome. We spent a week near Montalcino and Montepulciano - empty, smooth ribbons of tarmac heaven
In a 106 hire car As much as I'd recommend the area there's so much to do there you could take 3 or 4 days to get there and back with the rest in Tuscany, Umbria etc. With just 3 weeks I think you'd be better staying further north (alps etc) and getting the most out of what they have to offer
Hope it helps!
Longers
Last time (3 years ago) we went to Italy it was via Austria, and the Tyrolean roads to Italy were still closed in May. The Tyrol is a lovely area for an impromptu stop-off though!
As someone else said, go to the amphitheatre in Verona. And whilst you're in the area, visit Lake Garda and the towns of Lazise, Malcesine, Desenzano, and Limone. Not far from there, you'll find the towns of Vallegio (home of tortellini) and Borghetto (pretty beyond words). The Futa and Raticosa passes are not too far a drive from the Verona area either, and well signposted off the Autostrada.
As someone else said, go to the amphitheatre in Verona. And whilst you're in the area, visit Lake Garda and the towns of Lazise, Malcesine, Desenzano, and Limone. Not far from there, you'll find the towns of Vallegio (home of tortellini) and Borghetto (pretty beyond words). The Futa and Raticosa passes are not too far a drive from the Verona area either, and well signposted off the Autostrada.
jonott said:
Straight down through Switzerland to Lugarno (or would it be more scenic doing the stelvio pass?) across to Lake Como, Bellagio, Lake Garda and then Verona. Would also love to see the cars before the start of the Mille Miglia in Brescia but not sure how this will fit in with our dates.
From there down to Modena to the Ferrari museum, Florence and Siena and then south to the Amalfi coast. We'd then go up the west coast to Portofino. My wife also wants to finish off the trip, if we have time by seeing Monaco and St Tropez before heading up through the French Alps (is there a road called pass de grande alps) and finally Champagne.
I realise it sounds like a lot to pack in. Is it feasible in 3 weeks without feeling rushed? Would it also be stretching it to add Puglia and one of Sicily, Sardinia or Corsica to the mix?
Are there likely to be any roads closed at this time of year?
Any advice greatly appreciated
Cheers
Lugano route is great but probably more populated. If you do head towards Lugano, take the St Gotthard pass (Passo San Gottardo). It's a bit busier than Stelvio but if you cross it early morning or late evening it's fine. It's also the best way to see the landscape change quickly and dramatically over quite a short distance. Within a very short time you leave the grey/green shades of northern Europe and enter the silvery blue colours of southern Europe (and crossing a lunar landscape en route). It's the gateway to the mediterranean and I never get tired of seeing it. From there down to Modena to the Ferrari museum, Florence and Siena and then south to the Amalfi coast. We'd then go up the west coast to Portofino. My wife also wants to finish off the trip, if we have time by seeing Monaco and St Tropez before heading up through the French Alps (is there a road called pass de grande alps) and finally Champagne.
I realise it sounds like a lot to pack in. Is it feasible in 3 weeks without feeling rushed? Would it also be stretching it to add Puglia and one of Sicily, Sardinia or Corsica to the mix?
Are there likely to be any roads closed at this time of year?
Any advice greatly appreciated
Cheers
Even though Lugano is inland it has a very mediterranean climate, much more so than say milan, even though milan is further south. It's due to being sheltered to the north by the alps and having a huge volume of water in the lakes. As well as being very attractive there, there is also an amazing trattoria in Porlezza, so that suits if you're going clockwise around the lake to enter Italy via Como. There is even an interesting detour through the Val d'Intelvi to Campione d'Italia, a little tax haven where you can gamble at one of the world's most exclusive casinos by the lake side.
Be careful when looking out for the pass because the signposting is not 100% clear & unambiguous. Don't bother with the tunnel unless you are travelling in the middle of the night.
You could go further east in Switzerland and travel down via St Moritz and then towards Como, which is an amazingly beautiful descent (although the ascent is much more fun to drive, through the hairpins, no need for braking, but maybe some need for overtaking). Another wonderful drive is between Ascona and Zermatt via the Centovalli.
The quality of the air in all these places is so good that it will take years off your age, even if you drive all the good bits on the seat of your pants.
I think you could end up being pretty rushed though, certainly if you try and take in southern Italy as well.
Portofino and the whole Italian Riviera is very attractive but, to me, not quite in the same league as the lakes & alps and will probably be busier.
Don't bother with Belgium and Luxembourg, which are extremely flat and characterless. You are fortunate to have missed them out in your life so far. Try Bruges for a city weekend break by plane, or even Brussells but they do not belong on a road trip. Best way down through France is to go via the Alsace / Vosges passing near Colmar, where there is a fair bit of twisting stuff through smallish mountains in a national park, then depending what you want to do you are well placed for southern Germany or northern Switerland from there.
hello jonathan,
there's an awful lot of nice people here offerring good advice.
i would suggest you determine dates, mileage and destinations before "casting a net" over the whole of the civilised world.
.... then the nice people here can go down to the pub and not possess the undying need to write chapter & verse re The Grand Tour.
our plan last year plymouth > santander > pau > spain coast > millau > gorges du tarn > mt ventoux > french alps > col du torini > italian riviera > lake como > stelvio > davos > brienze > black forest > champagne > home.
no women, no passengers, two weeks, a day off each 2/3 days, very fast, 4-5 hours per day driving ... believe me, the girls would hate it !
this year we ... fly to naples > hire minis > ferry to sardinia > ferry to corsica > ferry to genoa > dolomites x 3 days > brescia > mille miglia x 50% (to rome) > amalfi coast x 3 days, then return remains of hire cars.
too much driving will naker up your trip.
kind regards,
david
there's an awful lot of nice people here offerring good advice.
i would suggest you determine dates, mileage and destinations before "casting a net" over the whole of the civilised world.
.... then the nice people here can go down to the pub and not possess the undying need to write chapter & verse re The Grand Tour.
our plan last year plymouth > santander > pau > spain coast > millau > gorges du tarn > mt ventoux > french alps > col du torini > italian riviera > lake como > stelvio > davos > brienze > black forest > champagne > home.
no women, no passengers, two weeks, a day off each 2/3 days, very fast, 4-5 hours per day driving ... believe me, the girls would hate it !
this year we ... fly to naples > hire minis > ferry to sardinia > ferry to corsica > ferry to genoa > dolomites x 3 days > brescia > mille miglia x 50% (to rome) > amalfi coast x 3 days, then return remains of hire cars.
too much driving will naker up your trip.
kind regards,
david
Wow. Thanks for all your help guys. Fabulous advice.
Not a problem the two of us in a Mini for three weeks. Used to driving 3,000 miles every year in the States together in small cars. In fact, the GP feels quite spacious with no rear seats
I just hope the passes are open when we go. I understand they've had a lot of snow this winter. Which makes planning the trip none to easy. I guess we could do the route in reverse so the passes would be at the end, leaving an extra couple of weeks for snow to clear.
Once again, many thanks
Jono
Not a problem the two of us in a Mini for three weeks. Used to driving 3,000 miles every year in the States together in small cars. In fact, the GP feels quite spacious with no rear seats
I just hope the passes are open when we go. I understand they've had a lot of snow this winter. Which makes planning the trip none to easy. I guess we could do the route in reverse so the passes would be at the end, leaving an extra couple of weeks for snow to clear.
Once again, many thanks
Jono
You want to do too much in too little time, which is a waste because Italy is all about 'dolce far niente' or 'taking it slow'.
If you want to drive to Switzerland from the north to Lugano, I can recommend the Grimsel and the Furka instead of Stelvio. The latter is very crowded, the former are closer to Lugano, fantastic to drive and much quieter. The Ferrari museum is commercialised crap, not a single interesting car on display (recent F1 cars that are covered to death in press), very small and the souvenirs are priced outrageously high. The test track is charming if testing is done, and near the circuit entrance there is a specialised body shop that build the prototypes for Ferrari and do factory restaurations. Look for a sign "Carrozzeria ?? (solo Ferrari)" and wrecked protos in the yard. Really nice guys and if you ask nicely, behave and don't take pics you sometimes can have a look around. Some years I saw the F430 Spider car being prepped for the worldwide press release, some 275's being restored, etc...! The Amalfi coast is great, but a loooooong drive down. For a short vacation I prefer Porto Santa Stefano, which not as beautiful but really charming (the Agnelli's have a house there and so does Montezemolo). It's also 100kms from Rome. Cinque Terre and Portofino are also great. For you return, St Tropez is a big detour, do Monaco and/or Nice and Cannes. If you want to avoid being sick, take the route Napoleon and visit the Gorge du Verdon instead of the Grande route des Alpes. I tried to do the latter last year and I almost threw up after a couple of hours: only 2nd and 1st gear hairpins, no straights and no progress if you're stuck behind a logging truck doing 10mph. I took a shortcut to a main road and drove back to Nice!!! Route Napoleon is nicer to drive, you can overtake that farmer and make some progress. If you must visit the Champagne, make sure to visit the (now restored) pit complex of the former Reims GP track.
All of this is of course very personal and open for comments. Have fun and relax!!!
If you want to drive to Switzerland from the north to Lugano, I can recommend the Grimsel and the Furka instead of Stelvio. The latter is very crowded, the former are closer to Lugano, fantastic to drive and much quieter. The Ferrari museum is commercialised crap, not a single interesting car on display (recent F1 cars that are covered to death in press), very small and the souvenirs are priced outrageously high. The test track is charming if testing is done, and near the circuit entrance there is a specialised body shop that build the prototypes for Ferrari and do factory restaurations. Look for a sign "Carrozzeria ?? (solo Ferrari)" and wrecked protos in the yard. Really nice guys and if you ask nicely, behave and don't take pics you sometimes can have a look around. Some years I saw the F430 Spider car being prepped for the worldwide press release, some 275's being restored, etc...! The Amalfi coast is great, but a loooooong drive down. For a short vacation I prefer Porto Santa Stefano, which not as beautiful but really charming (the Agnelli's have a house there and so does Montezemolo). It's also 100kms from Rome. Cinque Terre and Portofino are also great. For you return, St Tropez is a big detour, do Monaco and/or Nice and Cannes. If you want to avoid being sick, take the route Napoleon and visit the Gorge du Verdon instead of the Grande route des Alpes. I tried to do the latter last year and I almost threw up after a couple of hours: only 2nd and 1st gear hairpins, no straights and no progress if you're stuck behind a logging truck doing 10mph. I took a shortcut to a main road and drove back to Nice!!! Route Napoleon is nicer to drive, you can overtake that farmer and make some progress. If you must visit the Champagne, make sure to visit the (now restored) pit complex of the former Reims GP track.
All of this is of course very personal and open for comments. Have fun and relax!!!
If you want some really intense driving, try the A1 between Bologna and Firenze in evening rush hour preferably when dark. Stick with the locals in lane two and hold on tight. If you can stay with them at >130kph skipping over the metal expansion joints as you round 90 degree bends with head height armco on your left and a train of artics doing 60kph on your right and make it out alive at the bottom you truly are a hero! I suspect your Mini may be a little better behavied than the Lancia Epsilon hire car I tried it in last but the short wheelbase will make it exciting.
I doubt many of the passes mentioned like the Furka, Grimsel or Stelvio will be open in May.
http://www.alpineroads.com/passes.php?sort=alt&...
The Dolomites would be worth a punt though - most of the main passes should be open - stunning roads and scenary although if you leave it much later than May, it seems the whole of Europe go on vacation there and clogs up the roads.
http://www.alpineroads.com/dolomites.php
http://www.alpineroads.com/passes.php?sort=alt&...
The Dolomites would be worth a punt though - most of the main passes should be open - stunning roads and scenary although if you leave it much later than May, it seems the whole of Europe go on vacation there and clogs up the roads.
http://www.alpineroads.com/dolomites.php
You lucky, lucky devil. How wonderful to spend 3 weeks touring that beautiful, magnificent country. If your OH gets fed up with you and rather fancies a bald middle aged man to get drunk on cheap vino with, I'm that man.
Do remember to post a trip report with photo's, so we can all share your trip.
Do remember to post a trip report with photo's, so we can all share your trip.
I'm planning a mega european road trip to, a bit longer though, going through Monaco, Italy (Dolomites, etc), Switzerland, Germany to the Nurburgring, Belgian (Spa) coming back through Le Mans. OK, I'll admit I haven't read the whole thread so this may be a repeat, but:
As people have mentioned, skip Belgium and Lux. A26 to Reims and A4 to Germany is the best way through that part of the world. You still end up in the Saarland, which is horrible, but you would've done that anyway going via Lux.
My specialist subject is Modena. Eating first:
In the main square, in the corner opposite the Cathedral is the covered market. If you want a picnic, go there. All amazing stuff. If you don't want a picnic, go there anyway, just to look.
Opposite the main entrance at the market square on the first floor is a place called Trattoria Aldina. Go there for lunch. Turn up at twelve, or you won't get a table. Take the phrase book - menu is strictly oral. Very good value for the standard of food. You'll be the only non-native there. I'm 92% sure it's lunchtimes only.
On the corner of the main market room, right next to the main entrance is the best sandwich shop in the world. Only 3 choices, but you'll want them all.
Failing all that, Caffe Concerto on the same corner of the square is also top notch.
Bars around Via dei Gallucci are worth a look.
Fiorano:
Not much to say. If you don't mind standing on the roof of your car, you can look over the fence at any testing that may be happening. I found a spot at the end of Via Marsala, off Via Gilles Villeneuve which leads to the circuit entrance. Some other lads were hanging off the fence next to me and they were swiftly moved on. Me and my mate stayed on the roof of the trusty 106 and got what appeared to be a congratulatory glance from the security guard. We stayed for about an hour and a half watching an FXX and a Scaglietti being punished.
Roads:
Modena is mental, just like the rest of Italy. Parking is free in Parco Novi Sad, but not on Mondays(?????). There is a market which takes over the whole place. Don't get stuck in the one way system.
For my money, look for the Passo dei (delle???) Radici out of Maranello up into the mountains. Maranello -> Pavullo nel Frigano -> Sestola -> Pievepelago -> Passo d. Radici -> Castelnuovo di Garfagnana. Where you go from there is frankly irrelevant. You'll have exploded with joy...or your passenger will have killed you.
Enjoy. Take some spare brake pads.
ETA Five pounds if you get me the reg. no. of the LHD British registered Exige parked in the back streets of Modena.
And the motorway from Parma to La Spezia is like a roller coaster. Highly recommended. Similarly the E 62 from Tortona to Genova.
Oh and May is the perfect time to go to Modena. Something involving cars will be happening every weekend. Mille Miglia is pretty cool. Also there is a rallye that finishes in the Piazza del Duomo (I forget its name), and there was a collection of very rare exotica on another weekend. If there's nothing on, take a look at the Panini collection. Google Hombre Parmesan. It's basically all the historic Maseratis that were sold off on one of the occasions when the company went bust. Very cool, and free to visit.
Oh and there's a food festival. Look for the Porchetta stall. It's like a sausage, but it's actually the whole pig.
As people have mentioned, skip Belgium and Lux. A26 to Reims and A4 to Germany is the best way through that part of the world. You still end up in the Saarland, which is horrible, but you would've done that anyway going via Lux.
My specialist subject is Modena. Eating first:
In the main square, in the corner opposite the Cathedral is the covered market. If you want a picnic, go there. All amazing stuff. If you don't want a picnic, go there anyway, just to look.
Opposite the main entrance at the market square on the first floor is a place called Trattoria Aldina. Go there for lunch. Turn up at twelve, or you won't get a table. Take the phrase book - menu is strictly oral. Very good value for the standard of food. You'll be the only non-native there. I'm 92% sure it's lunchtimes only.
On the corner of the main market room, right next to the main entrance is the best sandwich shop in the world. Only 3 choices, but you'll want them all.
Failing all that, Caffe Concerto on the same corner of the square is also top notch.
Bars around Via dei Gallucci are worth a look.
Fiorano:
Not much to say. If you don't mind standing on the roof of your car, you can look over the fence at any testing that may be happening. I found a spot at the end of Via Marsala, off Via Gilles Villeneuve which leads to the circuit entrance. Some other lads were hanging off the fence next to me and they were swiftly moved on. Me and my mate stayed on the roof of the trusty 106 and got what appeared to be a congratulatory glance from the security guard. We stayed for about an hour and a half watching an FXX and a Scaglietti being punished.
Roads:
Modena is mental, just like the rest of Italy. Parking is free in Parco Novi Sad, but not on Mondays(?????). There is a market which takes over the whole place. Don't get stuck in the one way system.
For my money, look for the Passo dei (delle???) Radici out of Maranello up into the mountains. Maranello -> Pavullo nel Frigano -> Sestola -> Pievepelago -> Passo d. Radici -> Castelnuovo di Garfagnana. Where you go from there is frankly irrelevant. You'll have exploded with joy...or your passenger will have killed you.
Enjoy. Take some spare brake pads.
ETA Five pounds if you get me the reg. no. of the LHD British registered Exige parked in the back streets of Modena.
And the motorway from Parma to La Spezia is like a roller coaster. Highly recommended. Similarly the E 62 from Tortona to Genova.
Oh and May is the perfect time to go to Modena. Something involving cars will be happening every weekend. Mille Miglia is pretty cool. Also there is a rallye that finishes in the Piazza del Duomo (I forget its name), and there was a collection of very rare exotica on another weekend. If there's nothing on, take a look at the Panini collection. Google Hombre Parmesan. It's basically all the historic Maseratis that were sold off on one of the occasions when the company went bust. Very cool, and free to visit.
Oh and there's a food festival. Look for the Porchetta stall. It's like a sausage, but it's actually the whole pig.
Edited by bitwrx on Thursday 26th March 20:40
Edited by bitwrx on Thursday 26th March 20:47
Three weeks is too long will cost you big £'s, worse still if the £ does not creep up against the Euro. The petrol costs quickly mount up. I love driving but after 2 days tearing up and down the passes it gets a tad boring espeacilly for the girl, Garda is quite commercialised some fab roads to try out though. If you do Modena book your tour of Pagani, Lambo and Ducati. All excellent walking past the ferrari factory is quite cool espeacilly if you have a yellow Elise, it attracted some attention! Florence is gorgeous as is Tuscany some really nice chill out villages.
Outside the Museam
I did over 8 days - Sandwich - St Gervais - Bormio - Lake Garda - Modena - Florence (For the girls) - Monaco - Reims - home. Cost 2.5K + Wifey spent 0.5K. 3K in total! Around £350 in petrol.
What ever you do you will have a great time just allow some non driving days.
Outside the MuseamI did over 8 days - Sandwich - St Gervais - Bormio - Lake Garda - Modena - Florence (For the girls) - Monaco - Reims - home. Cost 2.5K + Wifey spent 0.5K. 3K in total! Around £350 in petrol.
What ever you do you will have a great time just allow some non driving days.
Elise looks good in yellow there, how easy is it to visit pagani, lovely roads around there, I remember chasing a 575 with a hired mini 5 years ago up a very windy road, one of those "no one will ever believe me" moments.
Great stuff!
Great stuff!
VTECMatt said:
Three weeks is too long will cost you big £'s, worse still if the £ does not creep up against the Euro. The petrol costs quickly mount up. I love driving but after 2 days tearing up and down the passes it gets a tad boring espeacilly for the girl, Garda is quite commercialised some fab roads to try out though. If you do Modena book your tour of Pagani, Lambo and Ducati. All excellent walking past the ferrari factory is quite cool espeacilly if you have a yellow Elise, it attracted some attention! Florence is gorgeous as is Tuscany some really nice chill out villages.
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