1983 Land Rover Series 3

1983 Land Rover Series 3

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bakerstreet

Original Poster:

4,766 posts

166 months

Saturday 10th November 2018
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300bhp/ton said:
Shouldn’t need body mods for a V8. Arguably a 300Tdi is illustrated as much work if not more. A 200Tdi fits straight in.

Lt77 in a Series means very short rear prop. Not impossible but probably not really worth the effort tbh. Plus you’ll lose the character of the 4 speed.
From what I've read, cab side centre tunnel needs to be widened to clear the exhaust manifolds or you can fit one from a stage 1, but most people just add a couple of inches either side of the standard tunnel. Easier than trying to source Stage 1 parts.

Character of the four speed? Forget that. R380/LT77 conversions are become more common now or at least adding a LT230 TX box on the back of the series gearbox.

300tdi just needs new engine mounts and the turbo is better placed for exhaust routing. 300tdi is in more plentiful supply compared to the 200 too. I've read that a 200tdi block with a 300tdi manifold and turbo works quite well as you don't need new engine mounts.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

191 months

Saturday 10th November 2018
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There are lots of options on exhaust routing. Depends where you locate the V8 exactly and what parts you use. I’m not sure I’d really call them body mods exactly.

Foot wells are almost a service item and easily replaced. The transmission tunnel is bolt on and replaceable. Which leaves just the hole in the bulkhead at the start of transmission tunnel. Could probably get away with a whack from a hammer.

As for the 200/300 debate. I have nothing against the 300 at all. It’s a great engine. But remeber it offers 100% the same power, mpg and performance as the 200 does. All the 300 really is, is a better productionised variant. The 200 had several bespoke changes made to it from the old TD model. Which I think some where licenced as well as the development was outsourced. The 300 just incorporated those changes in cheaper to build engine and a way of using the same setup for both the Disco and Defender.

Some of the cost cutting resulted in a few new problems but nothing major. But hay presto you end up with an almost identical performing engine in every metric.

The serpentine belt over the vee belt is probably the best difference between the 200 and 300.

As for availability. Are they really that different? The 300 has been out of production since 1997/8 for the U.K. market. The 200 since 1993/4.

The 200 is an easier drop in conversion. The turbo you just clock and use the exhaust down pipe from Steve Parker. Assuming it’s a Disco 200 engine. Job done.

The 300 of course will fit. But will generally cost more money and time. And the end result is an identically performing vehicle in every regard.

Are you planning on fitting PAS at the same time?


I will say as much as I love the Tdi engines, I have two 88’s with them in. They are noisy and unrefined. Really the only reason to fit one over a V8 is for mpg reasons. If mpg isn’t a concern then the refinement of a V8 would in my opinion be a worthwhile trade off. Alternatively if you are wanting to stick with Rover engines. You might want to try and find a 2.0 litre T-Series from a Discovery MPi. Might need a little more than a V8/Tdi conversion. But again you’ll get a quieter more refined engine setup. The T-Series is a nice engine too. More powerful than a Tdi and would be faster. And more torque everywhere than the old 2.25P.

With regards to the transmission. I think there is a big character difference. There is something different about driving a 4 speed vehicle and the way it “snicks” into gear. Fitting a Defender engine and gearbox will make it feel more Defender than Series.

I admit I’ve not really seen any LT77 to Series transfer box conversions. Not sure if it’s possible or not or even easy. But it doesn’t seem all that common so I guess there must be reasons. LT77 and LT230 is more common. Obviously you’ll have to solve driving the front axle all the time with the LT230. Lots of ways of doing this. I don’t know if the bigger gearboxes will also impact exhaust routing. You’ll be need some kind of body/transmission mods to cater for a 5 speed box.

Anyway good luck with your project. smile

66mpg

651 posts

108 months

Saturday 10th November 2018
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I had a 1979 Series III 88in 2.25 Diesel a few years ago. I would recommend getting the free wheel hubs. Mine had the spare on the bonnet. I was young and fit; it never caused me any problems. Mine smoked, especially on the overrun. Diagnosis was valve stem oil seals gone hard. The old ones were like Bakelite, the new ones were pliable. Oil was being allowed past the old seals. Not a difficult job to change them.

I ran mine on Firestone Super All Tractions: wet roundabouts were fun!

bakerstreet

Original Poster:

4,766 posts

166 months

Thursday 22nd November 2018
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66mpg said:
I had a 1979 Series III 88in 2.25 Diesel a few years ago. I would recommend getting the free wheel hubs. Mine had the spare on the bonnet. I was young and fit; it never caused me any problems. Mine smoked, especially on the overrun. Diagnosis was valve stem oil seals gone hard. The old ones were like Bakelite, the new ones were pliable. Oil was being allowed past the old seals. Not a difficult job to change them.

I ran mine on Firestone Super All Tractions: wet roundabouts were fun!
Mine is pretty smokey, but is fine once its warmed up, which is fairly common. A swap to a 300tdi isn't too bad from what I've read but it would still be mated to current clunky gearbox, so I don't see the point in swapping them out until I have a suitable new box or at least mating an LT230 to current box (post refurb). That combined with RR or Disco diffs should see it right, also it would retain some of the originality.

Hoping to go over and do some work on it tomorrow. The 5th Jan is edging ever closer and I still feel like I have a lot of work to do.

bakerstreet

Original Poster:

4,766 posts

166 months

Thursday 29th November 2018
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Aiming to be back on the road in early Jan, but this shot is quite pleasing.

I re-painted the spare wheel as it was covered in blue overspray (My own stupid fault). Step has also been repainted along with the tow bar. Got a few days off next week, so going to get some more work done then try and get it MOT'd in late December. If it fails on something major, then its back to the drawing board.



Edited by bakerstreet on Thursday 29th November 09:26

hidetheelephants

24,483 posts

194 months

Thursday 29th November 2018
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bakerstreet said:
Long term, I'm going for banded defeder steel weels running 235/85/R16. Buying the 205s was a waste of money as they look rubbish on the car.
You don't need to do this, 235/85/16 will go on standard defender rims.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

191 months

Thursday 29th November 2018
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hidetheelephants said:
bakerstreet said:
Long term, I'm going for banded defeder steel weels running 235/85/R16. Buying the 205s was a waste of money as they look rubbish on the car.
You don't need to do this, 235/85/16 will go on standard defender rims.
Yes standard 6” wide rims from a Defender are fine. Standard 5.5” rims from a Series are below the rates specs for most 235/85 tyres. Although they will physically fit fine.

Shakermaker

11,317 posts

101 months

Friday 30th November 2018
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bakerstreet said:
Aiming to be back on the road in early Jan, but this shot is quite pleasing.

I re-painted the spare wheel as it was covered in blue overspray (My own stupid fault). Step has also been repainted along with the tow bar. Got a few days off next week, so going to get some more work done then try and get it MOT'd in late December. If it fails on something major, then its back to the drawing board.



Edited by bakerstreet on Thursday 29th November 09:26
There's some weird guy in the back! Get him out!!

Rubins4

780 posts

126 months

Friday 30th November 2018
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Do you need reverse lights in an 83 for the MOT?

Nice Landy btw

bakerstreet

Original Poster:

4,766 posts

166 months

Friday 30th November 2018
quotequote all
Rubins4 said:
Do you need reverse lights in an 83 for the MOT?

Nice Landy btw
No, they weren't fitted with a reversing light from the factory, so therefor they don't need one. Fog light is different though. Law dictates I need one of those. Most were fitted with a typical 80s aftermarket square plastic item which is pretty ugly. I went with round fog light from a TD5 Defender as I thought it was a better match to the tail/indicator lights.

This has reminded me that I need to put a bulb in the fog light!

Shakermaker

11,317 posts

101 months

Friday 30th November 2018
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Anyway as ever, I've spent the last half hour in the classifieds looking at old Land Rovers, wishing I had the money.

I really like the Marine Blue colour of yours with the cream. It is "right" for that. As cool as LRs are in any colour, I would not want to go down the route of having it dressed up in full Olive Drab with camo netting all over, so a proper colour is needed. I think though my perfect LR is closer to Muddles - a 109/110 with a removable hard top, so that I could actually put my shoulders somewhere even if I still couldn't fit my legs in properly. A compromise, as all LRs have to be.

Colour wise though... for some reason a nice soft yellow (not Camel Trophy yellow) appeals.. or of course Marine Blue!

bakerstreet

Original Poster:

4,766 posts

166 months

Friday 30th November 2018
quotequote all
Shakermaker said:
Anyway as ever, I've spent the last half hour in the classifieds looking at old Land Rovers, wishing I had the money.

I really like the Marine Blue colour of yours with the cream. It is "right" for that. As cool as LRs are in any colour, I would not want to go down the route of having it dressed up in full Olive Drab with camo netting all over, so a proper colour is needed. I think though my perfect LR is closer to Muddles - a 109/110 with a removable hard top, so that I could actually put my shoulders somewhere even if I still couldn't fit my legs in properly. A compromise, as all LRs have to be.

Colour wise though... for some reason a nice soft yellow (not Camel Trophy yellow) appeals.. or of course Marine Blue!
I don't ever really want to sell this as I know I will never be able to afford another. Prices for series 3 are on the up too.

I did consider a colour change to to HUE 166 olive green as I really like that as a colour, but I decided to stick to Marine blue, but its much darker than what people are used to which is the faded lighter shade of un-restored cars.

Don't really like the army replicas unless they are actually army vehicles, so agree with you on that. Its also a style that I just don't like.

Ordered some more bits for it today including some seat belt bolts and anti burst lock and latch kit for the front doors. Later is all for safety really. Series doors flying open as you go round the corner is not a fun past time!

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

191 months

Friday 30th November 2018
quotequote all
Shakermaker said:
An I think though my perfect LR is closer to Muddles - a 109/110 with a removable hard top, so that I could actually put my shoulders somewhere even if I still couldn't fit my legs in properly.
Land Rover never offered removable hard tops, also a LWB won't have any additional driver space in it I'm afraid. Pickups will have slightly less as the seat may not go back as far.

90/110 also have slightly more space than an 88/109 for the driver due to a different seatbox and centre bulkhead design. But they have a bigger dash and bigger seats, so overall is quite similar. The doors are the same and interchangeable on all of them.

Shakermaker

11,317 posts

101 months

Friday 30th November 2018
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300bhp/ton said:
Shakermaker said:
An I think though my perfect LR is closer to Muddles - a 109/110 with a removable hard top, so that I could actually put my shoulders somewhere even if I still couldn't fit my legs in properly.
Land Rover never offered removable hard tops, also a LWB won't have any additional driver space in it I'm afraid. Pickups will have slightly less as the seat may not go back as far.

90/110 also have slightly more space than an 88/109 for the driver due to a different seatbox and centre bulkhead design. But they have a bigger dash and bigger seats, so overall is quite similar. The doors are the same and interchangeable on all of them.
So all the hard tops which come with canvas backs as well are modified from standard or bolt-on parts?

I know what you're saying though. My mate's got a Series 3 and I can't fit in the damn thing in any comfortable way. But I still want one

warch

2,941 posts

155 months

Friday 30th November 2018
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300bhp/ton said:
Land Rover never offered removable hard tops, also a LWB won't have any additional driver space in it I'm afraid. Pickups will have slightly less as the seat may not go back as far.
Depends how you mean removable. The hardtop on my IIA takes about 20 minutes to remove, although I've expedited the process by removing some of the bolts.

My Landie also has none adjustable seat bases so the roof configuration makes absolutely sod all difference to the seat position.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

191 months

Friday 30th November 2018
quotequote all
Shakermaker said:
So all the hard tops which come with canvas backs as well are modified from standard or bolt-on parts?

I know what you're saying though. My mate's got a Series 3 and I can't fit in the damn thing in any comfortable way. But I still want one
Many body configurations have been offered.

They are essentially:

-full canvas
-pickup (truck cab)
-hard top (van sides)
-Station wagon (has windows in the sides, 109 would also gain an extra row of seats and doors)


Due to the construction of the Land Rovers, the roof (apart from the full canvas) are all bolt in place. So you can remove them. But it's not exactly a 5 min job for 1 person. More like several hours and a couple of people. Something you might do once or twice a year if you want to run about with no roof on.

The full canvas is fairly easy to remove on your own and depending on how often you do it, will take 5-20 mins to complete.


The pickup model could be optioned with a canvas rear, but it is still a truck cab. The canvas doesn't make it any bigger inside.



full canvas (canvas above the driver)




A Defender 90 or 110 will have the more space due to the bulkhead and seatbox design. The NAS (N. American Spec) had the centre bulkhead replaced with a bar. Latter UK models also received this. This does allow the seat back further and will give slightly more room again.




Standard:




There are kits you can get to trim the standard bulkhead down. It won't remove it completely, but should allow the seat to go a bit further back.

Shakermaker

11,317 posts

101 months

Friday 30th November 2018
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Many body configurations have been offered.

They are essentially:

-full canvas
-pickup (truck cab)
-hard top (van sides)
-Station wagon (has windows in the sides, 109 would also gain an extra row of seats and doors)


Due to the construction of the Land Rovers, the roof (apart from the full canvas) are all bolt in place. So you can remove them. But it's not exactly a 5 min job for 1 person. More like several hours and a couple of people. Something you might do once or twice a year if you want to run about with no roof on.

The full canvas is fairly easy to remove on your own and depending on how often you do it, will take 5-20 mins to complete.


The pickup model could be optioned with a canvas rear, but it is still a truck cab. The canvas doesn't make it any bigger inside.



full canvas (canvas above the driver)




A Defender 90 or 110 will have the more space due to the bulkhead and seatbox design. The NAS (N. American Spec) had the centre bulkhead replaced with a bar. Latter UK models also received this. This does allow the seat back further and will give slightly more room again.




Standard:




There are kits you can get to trim the standard bulkhead down. It won't remove it completely, but should allow the seat to go a bit further back.
good insight, thanks. Will hopefully be useful info one day

That's enough thread drift for now though. the OP's done a great job

warch

2,941 posts

155 months

Saturday 1st December 2018
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Back OT, regarding fitment of Tdi/V8 engines in Series Land Rovers, I'm distinctly ambivalent about the Tdi conversion, these engines are very unrefined, due to the direct injection system, think 90s non turbo transit van unrefined. IIRC they had to fit massive engine mounts to reduce the vibration. They are very strong engines however, drop straight in with an adaptor plate and a few other parts and are amazingly efficient. However some of the other parts to complete the conversion are bespoke or were fitted to long obsolete vehicles like the old Sherpa van.


I didn't fancy a V8 because of the amount of fabrication required to fit one, especially to the bulkhead. It would be more straightforward if you had a pre stripped vehicle to start with, but the thought of having to alter the footwells put me off. They do sound heavenly though.


I stuck with my 2.25 petrol in the end, it is a standard vehicle for insurance purposes, parts are all easy to come by and it is right for the vehicle, you really need upgraded parts to safely increase the power of one of these, especially the brakes.

bakerstreet

Original Poster:

4,766 posts

166 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
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Shakermaker said:
good insight, thanks. Will hopefully be useful info one day

That's enough thread drift for now though. the OP's done a great job
Thanks. The compliments actually mean quite a lot. Sadly most of my friends don't really get classic cars and the work that goes into them. Especially as this hasn't been done by another company. All me.

Bought my self some internal pull handles for the door trims last night. Replica ones are quite expensive at £22 each and the car is drifting further and further from original state, so I have gone for a pair of black kitchen handles. Look similar to ones Land Rover offered in County trim and being black means I don't have to paint them smile

Got a few days off this week, so will hopefully be able to fit the Defender mirrors and re-connect all the lighting. After that, I've got try and get the MOT booked before the Christmas break. MOTs are always a worry for old Land Rovers even though I know mine is structurally sound smile

bakerstreet

Original Poster:

4,766 posts

166 months

Sunday 23rd December 2018
quotequote all
Had a week off in December so I managed to do a few bits.

Under seat storage on my series has always been filthy and what ever goes in there always rattles around as its just painted ali in there. When I cleaned it out prior to painting there was a lot of mud and sticks in there.

Even with a clean it still looked quite grotty. Original plan was to re-paint in marine blue, but that wouldn't offer much in the way of sound deadening nor would it stop any rattling.

In the end I cleaned it using a hoover and some de-greaser and then painted it with two coats of red oxide and a single coat of Whicks Black Gloss. I've used this for a few bits on tor the Landy nd I really wish I'd used something like Hammerite. Finish would have been much better. However, finish wasn't crucial here as once the gloss was touch dry, I applied 2.5mm Silent Coat sound deadening to all the surfaces.

You think applying sound deadening would be quick, but there is always a lot of cutting to fit and that storage area probably took me over an an hour. Its a single garage, so I have to walk back every time to cut the sheets.

Carpet was then applied. It's not perfect, but I'm fairly happy with the finished article. Same plastic backed stuff that has been used on the arches. Managed to get a couple of big Rolls from the original supplier and I will doing the bulkhead in the upcoming weeks.

Underseat storage cover were filthy, so that had a sand down with some wet and dry and I used etch Primer and alloy wheel paint from AutoTek.

Few pics form the process. Long term, I will eventually brush paint the top of the seat box.















|https://thumbsnap.com/QfdPMGdQ[/url]









The bigger news is I managed to start the car and get it out the garage so I could fit the Defender door mirrors. Series Mirrors are rubbish and I'm giving up on the authentic look because I actually want to see what is behind me! Passenger side was fine, but drivers side was a bit more involved.

Had to grind off the screw heads and knock the bolts out. We then fitted the arm, but the mounting mechanism for the actual mirror head is quite poor and I have left my dad to put in a nut for the clamp bolt and the mirror will be fixed on there and the only way you'll be able to remove it is to take the glass out. Not got any pics of the mirror fitting, but here are both Land Rovers on the drive.

|https://thumbsnap.com/sf7On1Kc[/url]

Unfortunately, I made a rather unpleasant discovery whilst driving it out the garage. Brakes are not working at all. Looking at the garage floor, you can see where the brake cylinders have clearly perished. My original plan was to drive it to the garage for the MOT, but time and sace means that it will now have to go on a flat bed. Quite upset about that, but I have a deadline to hit and a single garage won't be a comfortable place for me to try and get the drums off (They will be a pig). I ave ordered new drums and re-build kits for box axels. Garage will be doing that work. I'm determined to make the cars to stop better.

Also, I need some better braking, as I have Gout and even pressing the brake pedal in my D3 is slightly uncomfortable so I have no ope of stopping the series with a dodgy foot/tow.

I'm currently making up some Seat belt top trim panels in ply along with lower door trim panels. Should look pretty good when they are finished. Will post some pics when they are fitted.

Land Rover bade will have to be fitted before it heads off to the garage and I am desperately trying to sort out the indicators, tail lights and side lights. Think I will switch to LED replacements next year.