605bhp Per Ton 200SX Powered Kitcar
Discussion
I think we are forgetting that the newest CA18s are about 30 years old (S13 Silvia?)
SR20s aren't exactly amazing. I've got a buddy who's on his third N/A engine, and unless you do a ground-up rebuild (and huge budget) they're always going to have a compromise with longevity, ability to handle power, and heat cycles. The OP has already said that he doesn't have the cash to throw at a big-wedge motor (and I reckon 10k is pocket change as most of this stuff comes from Japan) so if he blows up a few engines here and there, who cares. I'd say turbocharging an XE/EcoTec or Zetec would cost, as would slapping in a YB Cosworth. Interesting one OP, what about a VW 1781cc 20v, something like an AEB or BFB (A4/Passat), longitudinal mounting, and readily available adapter plates for RX8 gearbox. Capacity there for an easy to get bits for, a relatively easy engine to make ~400bhp. vRS Northampton had a MK1 Octavia with 600bhp through the front wheels
SR20s aren't exactly amazing. I've got a buddy who's on his third N/A engine, and unless you do a ground-up rebuild (and huge budget) they're always going to have a compromise with longevity, ability to handle power, and heat cycles. The OP has already said that he doesn't have the cash to throw at a big-wedge motor (and I reckon 10k is pocket change as most of this stuff comes from Japan) so if he blows up a few engines here and there, who cares. I'd say turbocharging an XE/EcoTec or Zetec would cost, as would slapping in a YB Cosworth. Interesting one OP, what about a VW 1781cc 20v, something like an AEB or BFB (A4/Passat), longitudinal mounting, and readily available adapter plates for RX8 gearbox. Capacity there for an easy to get bits for, a relatively easy engine to make ~400bhp. vRS Northampton had a MK1 Octavia with 600bhp through the front wheels
Any other engine is going to cost in the region of £500 or a min of £750 for a k20).
A minor refresh is 500, a standard factory rebuild is over 1k, a forged rebuild is 2-2.5k and that's before wiring, exhaust, manifold, mounts, wiring, turbo, mapping etc.
Figures just don't work out.
The other consideration was time, a new engine install would likely take 4 or 5 months in current climate. This should take less than 2 months all being well.
A minor refresh is 500, a standard factory rebuild is over 1k, a forged rebuild is 2-2.5k and that's before wiring, exhaust, manifold, mounts, wiring, turbo, mapping etc.
Figures just don't work out.
The other consideration was time, a new engine install would likely take 4 or 5 months in current climate. This should take less than 2 months all being well.
dave2007bc said:
Any other engine is going to cost in the region of £500 or a min of £750 for a k20).
A minor refresh is 500, a standard factory rebuild is over 1k, a forged rebuild is 2-2.5k and that's before wiring, exhaust, manifold, mounts, wiring, turbo, mapping etc.
Figures just don't work out.
The other consideration was time, a new engine install would likely take 4 or 5 months in current climate. This should take less than 2 months all being well.
Didn't we establish earlier that rushing and cutting costs had contributed to two of the previous failures?A minor refresh is 500, a standard factory rebuild is over 1k, a forged rebuild is 2-2.5k and that's before wiring, exhaust, manifold, mounts, wiring, turbo, mapping etc.
Figures just don't work out.
The other consideration was time, a new engine install would likely take 4 or 5 months in current climate. This should take less than 2 months all being well.
Might it be worth at least exploring alternatives?
C70R said:
dave2007bc said:
Any other engine is going to cost in the region of £500 or a min of £750 for a k20).
A minor refresh is 500, a standard factory rebuild is over 1k, a forged rebuild is 2-2.5k and that's before wiring, exhaust, manifold, mounts, wiring, turbo, mapping etc.
Figures just don't work out.
The other consideration was time, a new engine install would likely take 4 or 5 months in current climate. This should take less than 2 months all being well.
Didn't we establish earlier that rushing and cutting costs had contributed to two of the previous failures?A minor refresh is 500, a standard factory rebuild is over 1k, a forged rebuild is 2-2.5k and that's before wiring, exhaust, manifold, mounts, wiring, turbo, mapping etc.
Figures just don't work out.
The other consideration was time, a new engine install would likely take 4 or 5 months in current climate. This should take less than 2 months all being well.
Might it be worth at least exploring alternatives?
wormus said:
C70R said:
dave2007bc said:
Any other engine is going to cost in the region of £500 or a min of £750 for a k20).
A minor refresh is 500, a standard factory rebuild is over 1k, a forged rebuild is 2-2.5k and that's before wiring, exhaust, manifold, mounts, wiring, turbo, mapping etc.
Figures just don't work out.
The other consideration was time, a new engine install would likely take 4 or 5 months in current climate. This should take less than 2 months all being well.
Didn't we establish earlier that rushing and cutting costs had contributed to two of the previous failures?A minor refresh is 500, a standard factory rebuild is over 1k, a forged rebuild is 2-2.5k and that's before wiring, exhaust, manifold, mounts, wiring, turbo, mapping etc.
Figures just don't work out.
The other consideration was time, a new engine install would likely take 4 or 5 months in current climate. This should take less than 2 months all being well.
Might it be worth at least exploring alternatives?
There have been several durable big bhp CA18 builds, but they've all cost big money and been done by specialists.
https://www.norrisdesigns.com/demo-s13.asp
C70R said:
That's unfair, and unnecessarily provocative. No need for that.
I missed off the smiley. My comment was of course meant in jest. Of course the best plan for the OP is to fix what he has whilst factoring in limitations of what constitutes ‘reliable’. I also know when it comes to tuning beyond what a manufacturer intended, it can take several attempts to make things work.Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 29th November 09:50
wormus said:
C70R said:
That's unfair, and unnecessarily provocative. No need for that.
I missed off the smiley. My comment was of course meant in jest. Of course the best plan for the OP is to fix what he has whilst factoring in limitations of what constitutes ‘reliable’.Ultimately a reliable track build at the power levels that the OP is looking for on a CA18 requires a specialist who knows these engines well and can source good quality upgraded parts.
It's the iron triangle of cost/quality/time. Usually one or more need to give.
To solve the issue of "foreign object damage" I have replaced my HKS mushroom (foam-style) filter with a proper gauze filter. I've also moved the filter inside the passenger footwell. This will mean no more road dirt, grime and moisture trying to make its way into the engine/turbo. It should also sound quite good 
There could be a small trade-off here with slightly higher inlet temperatures as this pipe has to run underneath the downpipes, however to compensate this I have gold-tape wrapped the inlet pipe itself, covered it in a gold heat-shrink wrap thing and twice wrapped the downpipes in exhaust wrap. I can't see it making a huge difference in terms of temperatures - the footwell location is still hugely better than being in an engine bay.
In terms of the engine rebuild, I'm still waiting on it coming back from the builders
They're waiting on some mains-bearings from the States that are stuck somewhere between here and there. Fingers crossed for it coming back this week though as I want to make sure it's all ready to be run-in when lockdown v3 ends.
For now, the bottom end as it sits. Re-bored, decked and ultra-sonically cleaned.
Fingers crossed my next update will be a long one :-)
There could be a small trade-off here with slightly higher inlet temperatures as this pipe has to run underneath the downpipes, however to compensate this I have gold-tape wrapped the inlet pipe itself, covered it in a gold heat-shrink wrap thing and twice wrapped the downpipes in exhaust wrap. I can't see it making a huge difference in terms of temperatures - the footwell location is still hugely better than being in an engine bay.
In terms of the engine rebuild, I'm still waiting on it coming back from the builders
They're waiting on some mains-bearings from the States that are stuck somewhere between here and there. Fingers crossed for it coming back this week though as I want to make sure it's all ready to be run-in when lockdown v3 ends.For now, the bottom end as it sits. Re-bored, decked and ultra-sonically cleaned.
Fingers crossed my next update will be a long one :-)
dave2007bc said:
To solve the issue of "foreign object damage" I have replaced my HKS mushroom (foam-style) filter with a proper gauze filter. I've also moved the filter inside the passenger footwell. This will mean no more road dirt, grime and moisture trying to make its way into the engine/turbo. It should also sound quite good
There could be a small trade-off here with slightly higher inlet temperatures as this pipe has to run underneath the downpipes, however to compensate this I have gold-tape wrapped the inlet pipe itself, covered it in a gold heat-shrink wrap thing and twice wrapped the downpipes in exhaust wrap. I can't see it making a huge difference in terms of temperatures - the footwell location is still hugely better than being in an engine bay.
Hmm.There could be a small trade-off here with slightly higher inlet temperatures as this pipe has to run underneath the downpipes, however to compensate this I have gold-tape wrapped the inlet pipe itself, covered it in a gold heat-shrink wrap thing and twice wrapped the downpipes in exhaust wrap. I can't see it making a huge difference in terms of temperatures - the footwell location is still hugely better than being in an engine bay.
Dubious, to say the least!
Still waiting on my engine...
So tried a new project to save some more weight and increase performance.
The process worked, but it wasn't worthwhile for my car sadly.
Worth a watch if you have a rwd car as there is the potential to make some good performance increases with fairly minimal effort.
So tried a new project to save some more weight and increase performance.
The process worked, but it wasn't worthwhile for my car sadly.
Worth a watch if you have a rwd car as there is the potential to make some good performance increases with fairly minimal effort.
This thread has been an interesting read, having built a kit car and gone through a few headaches along the way. Doing things "cheap" or rushed always bites ya. I built a Gardner Douglas T70 and used a 2nd hand £1200 quid LS1 5.7l that made 440bhp on a 500 quid carb. Totally untouched engine, lasted 6 trackdays then spun a bearing.
Doing it right 2nd time around I got 480bhp from a new professionally built 6litre bottom end and it's still going strong 8yrs later (with a new owner now) having done dozens of sprints and numerous trackdays.
One thing I will say is it's a lot easier making "giggle inducing " power/torque with an unstressed modern V8 than a turbo home brew, albeit you need the right chassis of course but the LS engines aren't heavy.
Good luck with your plans whatever you do, hope it works out.
Doing it right 2nd time around I got 480bhp from a new professionally built 6litre bottom end and it's still going strong 8yrs later (with a new owner now) having done dozens of sprints and numerous trackdays.
One thing I will say is it's a lot easier making "giggle inducing " power/torque with an unstressed modern V8 than a turbo home brew, albeit you need the right chassis of course but the LS engines aren't heavy.
Good luck with your plans whatever you do, hope it works out.
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