605bhp Per Ton 200SX Powered Kitcar
Discussion
StreetDragster said:
Has its been setup/mapped on the rollers before?
I'd say rebuild it, and then post running in, a thoroughly decent setup. If you sell it broken it'll be worth buttons
Matt
Hi Matt, yes all setup and run in on the rollers.I'd say rebuild it, and then post running in, a thoroughly decent setup. If you sell it broken it'll be worth buttons
Matt
Today has been tear down day. A number of physical issues have been found. The cause, thankfully, does not appear to my mapping or tuner related.
First things first, for those of you that saw the drag-race video on the Officially Gassed channel, here is a behind the scenes look of the day -
Right, on to more pressing matters.
I stripped off the inlet, exhaust and cylinder head and found a number of issues.
1 The timing had jumped
2 An injector seal had split
So the head came off.. There was damage inside -
and on the underside
There were some disconcerting marks on the inside of the cambelt which indicates something was wrong, somewhere.
Things escalated quickly from there -
So what's the damage.. I need new piston rings, cylinder head check over and skim, new head gasket, new bearings...new block.
I've had the injectors cleaned - all OK. Cylinder head checked over - all OK.
I've decided to rebuild, again. I did the math and couldn't make it work fitting a different engine to it. I was going to go boosted k20 but I'd have been at least £2k out of pocket over what it will cost to fix this one.
I've decided to take the rebuild to a performance engine builder, rather than relying on friends to do things for me. The engine builder has seen the old engine and noted a few things.
1 - He didn't think the old engine was run in enough; probably right. I only did c. 250 miles before I went to normal oil
2 - He said the map was too rich during the running in period.
3 - The marks on the head and piston are impact damage. This damage caught the edge of the piston crown which in turn damaged the bore, which then caused the compression issues. I've since checked the inlet pipe behind the filter and it's full of all sorts of dirt. My filter is outside the car so almost understandable but I don't want this to happen again. The filter and pipework is being moved and re-made
If you've watched the last video above, you'll also see that my turbo oil restrictor is too big (1.3mm instead of 0.9mm) and my oil drain is also too small (10mm instead of 13.5mm) so both of those will be changed also.
Effectively I'm at the point now where I need to wait and do nothing for four weeks, such is life. Fingers crossed, I should be on the road again mid-January ready to turn up the boost and get it all remapped in February
Right, on to more pressing matters.
I stripped off the inlet, exhaust and cylinder head and found a number of issues.
1 The timing had jumped
2 An injector seal had split
So the head came off.. There was damage inside -
and on the underside
There were some disconcerting marks on the inside of the cambelt which indicates something was wrong, somewhere.
Things escalated quickly from there -
So what's the damage.. I need new piston rings, cylinder head check over and skim, new head gasket, new bearings...new block.
I've had the injectors cleaned - all OK. Cylinder head checked over - all OK.
I've decided to rebuild, again. I did the math and couldn't make it work fitting a different engine to it. I was going to go boosted k20 but I'd have been at least £2k out of pocket over what it will cost to fix this one.
I've decided to take the rebuild to a performance engine builder, rather than relying on friends to do things for me. The engine builder has seen the old engine and noted a few things.
1 - He didn't think the old engine was run in enough; probably right. I only did c. 250 miles before I went to normal oil
2 - He said the map was too rich during the running in period.
3 - The marks on the head and piston are impact damage. This damage caught the edge of the piston crown which in turn damaged the bore, which then caused the compression issues. I've since checked the inlet pipe behind the filter and it's full of all sorts of dirt. My filter is outside the car so almost understandable but I don't want this to happen again. The filter and pipework is being moved and re-made
If you've watched the last video above, you'll also see that my turbo oil restrictor is too big (1.3mm instead of 0.9mm) and my oil drain is also too small (10mm instead of 13.5mm) so both of those will be changed also.
Effectively I'm at the point now where I need to wait and do nothing for four weeks, such is life. Fingers crossed, I should be on the road again mid-January ready to turn up the boost and get it all remapped in February
5harp3y said:
time for a k20 swap?
As per the video, figures just don't work. Would be a £5-6k outlay minimum plus all the hassle of fitting a new engine, box, prop etc.I know everyone slates the CA but each issue I've had is primarily due to workmanship or specific part failure i.e. injector seal. These aren't CA specific issues.
CAs suffer from spun bearings and oil starvation; not something I've had a problem with and have done the necessary measures to combat it (head return and extended/baffled sump).
Sr20 is also taller and heavier than a CA. Would have exactly the same issues in fitting one as I would a k20.
I should have never forged this, I should have fitted a k20 at that point but alas I didn't. Always difficult to know the point of no return, throwing good money after bad etc.
I can assure PH (and the wife!) this is the last attempt with this engine. If it doesn't work out the parts will be sold and the car will go as a rolling chassis ready for someone else to start their own journey. However I'm very much looking forward to having some garage time over the Winter period so whilst I don't appreciate the cost implications, I am lookin forward to the next stage of ownership, along with joining the 400+ club
Turn7 said:
wormus said:
5harp3y said:
time for a k20 swap?
I suggested a Saab B204. Few hundred quid to buy and easily capable of 400bhp. Bomb proof engines.The OP is invested in the CA and wants a final rebuild as economical as possible I would imagine......
wormus said:
dave2007bc said:
Glad someone is listening. Thought my posts were invisible or something.
Well with respect, it hasn’t worked out well so far so you might want to try something else? Your money I guess.Don’t post stuff on the internet if you don’t want other people to comment.
I do appreciate the feedback and comments, but I did clearly explain the entire reason for the decisions made in the post above to to simply repeating what you've said is a waste of your time.
A Saab engine would need a refresh, few hundred minimum, clutch, gearbox, mounts, exhaust, ECU, loom, new if pipework, steering might need to be modified etc. It would cost way more than it would to fix this one and be a 'normal' engine. It may do 400bhp but this engine at this spec (with a bigger turbo) should do 600bhp safely sadly I've had problems which, as I've already mentioned, are primarily related to workmanship.
Greg_D said:
quite, and if you look at the miles covered/trouble caused the results would probably make pretty sobering viewing. It's basically always broken. I wouldn't say that the OP shouldn't rebuild it, that's his judgment call. but i would personally save up and put in a motor that is less likely to expensively s
t itself every couple of hundred miles!!!
It did 5 years on a 30 year old standard engine. Rings went.t itself every couple of hundred miles!!!It did 4 weeks on a forged engine. Tuner melted it
It did 1 day on a 30 year old engine. Headgasket went.
It did 12 months in a forged engine. Part failure
Certainly annoying but hardly "always broken" or "s
t itself every couple of miles".None of the issues are those that are the common faults of a CA. They're either part failure or workmanship. These things happen. Life goes on and as said by someone else above, if it worked all the time I'd be bored.
Kitcars are like Lego cars, you take bits off, change, improve. It never ends, it's all part of the experience and learning curve.
I've learnt so much from having this car, what to do, what not to, how to choose a tuner etc I don't have the funds to just ship it off to a builder and get a 5 figure bill and the car back so it is what it is. You don't always succeed the first time, or fourth ha.
Edited by dave2007bc on Thursday 26th November 16:43
C70R said:
I'm not one for saying that this engine is "cursed" or "unlucky", but there's something non-coincidental about the way you're approaching this that results in continual failure.
If you're hell-bent on rebuilding this engine rather than replacing (which it seems you are), maybe it's worth stopping and evaluating the root cause and decisions that led to the numerous previous failures.
Are you picking the right people to work on it? If not, what's causing you not to choose those who do?
Are you spending the appropriate amount, or choosing proven parts for longevity at the power level you're running? If not, what's causing the corner cutting?
Ad nauseum.
Engine 1 failed because it was 30 years old and was running twice the power it came from the factory with.If you're hell-bent on rebuilding this engine rather than replacing (which it seems you are), maybe it's worth stopping and evaluating the root cause and decisions that led to the numerous previous failures.
Are you picking the right people to work on it? If not, what's causing you not to choose those who do?
Are you spending the appropriate amount, or choosing proven parts for longevity at the power level you're running? If not, what's causing the corner cutting?
Ad nauseum.
Engine 2 failed because I fitted it in the space of 2 hours without so much as an oil change because I had a trackday the following day.
Engine 3 failed because the mapper was incompetent.
Engine 4 appears to have failed due to the engine having debris going through it as my air filter wasn't doing its job. The timing jumped also- still investigating this.
The new engine will be built by a professional.
Any other engine is going to cost in the region of £500 or a min of £750 for a k20).
A minor refresh is 500, a standard factory rebuild is over 1k, a forged rebuild is 2-2.5k and that's before wiring, exhaust, manifold, mounts, wiring, turbo, mapping etc.
Figures just don't work out.
The other consideration was time, a new engine install would likely take 4 or 5 months in current climate. This should take less than 2 months all being well.
A minor refresh is 500, a standard factory rebuild is over 1k, a forged rebuild is 2-2.5k and that's before wiring, exhaust, manifold, mounts, wiring, turbo, mapping etc.
Figures just don't work out.
The other consideration was time, a new engine install would likely take 4 or 5 months in current climate. This should take less than 2 months all being well.
To solve the issue of "foreign object damage" I have replaced my HKS mushroom (foam-style) filter with a proper gauze filter. I've also moved the filter inside the passenger footwell. This will mean no more road dirt, grime and moisture trying to make its way into the engine/turbo. It should also sound quite good
There could be a small trade-off here with slightly higher inlet temperatures as this pipe has to run underneath the downpipes, however to compensate this I have gold-tape wrapped the inlet pipe itself, covered it in a gold heat-shrink wrap thing and twice wrapped the downpipes in exhaust wrap. I can't see it making a huge difference in terms of temperatures - the footwell location is still hugely better than being in an engine bay.
In terms of the engine rebuild, I'm still waiting on it coming back from the builders
They're waiting on some mains-bearings from the States that are stuck somewhere between here and there. Fingers crossed for it coming back this week though as I want to make sure it's all ready to be run-in when lockdown v3 ends.
For now, the bottom end as it sits. Re-bored, decked and ultra-sonically cleaned.
Fingers crossed my next update will be a long one :-)
There could be a small trade-off here with slightly higher inlet temperatures as this pipe has to run underneath the downpipes, however to compensate this I have gold-tape wrapped the inlet pipe itself, covered it in a gold heat-shrink wrap thing and twice wrapped the downpipes in exhaust wrap. I can't see it making a huge difference in terms of temperatures - the footwell location is still hugely better than being in an engine bay.
In terms of the engine rebuild, I'm still waiting on it coming back from the builders
They're waiting on some mains-bearings from the States that are stuck somewhere between here and there. Fingers crossed for it coming back this week though as I want to make sure it's all ready to be run-in when lockdown v3 ends.For now, the bottom end as it sits. Re-bored, decked and ultra-sonically cleaned.
Fingers crossed my next update will be a long one :-)
Still waiting on my engine...
So tried a new project to save some more weight and increase performance.
The process worked, but it wasn't worthwhile for my car sadly.
Worth a watch if you have a rwd car as there is the potential to make some good performance increases with fairly minimal effort.
So tried a new project to save some more weight and increase performance.
The process worked, but it wasn't worthwhile for my car sadly.
Worth a watch if you have a rwd car as there is the potential to make some good performance increases with fairly minimal effort.
fuzzyyo said:
Seen this is for sale on eBay. Strong money without a drivetrain. Whats the next project?
Forgot all about this thread! I'll summarise 2021.
Engine got built and fitted. Run-in, no issues.
Took it to be mapped in Somerset and the turbo oil seals went (turbo had done less than 800 miles). About par for the course with this car.
Came home, turbo replaced under warranty. Mapper then broke his ankle when a winch snapped from a customers car and crushed it. He was expected to be out of action for 4 months.
I plodded round in the car till September on a severely wound down map.
Come Winter, I decided to have a general refresh of the car, engine bay, chassis etc.
Whilst the engine was out I sent the gearbox off for a refurb. This should have been 2 weeks but ended up being 2 months.
I got itchy feet in that time, and decided I could probably make the same money in bits as selling as a whole car.
I found a buyer for the car off eBay for apparently "strong" money. He plans to fit a 500bhp+ zetec turbo and sequential box.
The turbo, management and engine had all been sold separately. I've just got a pile of random spares to work through.
I don't regret it in the slightest, everyone said I would but the 8 year journey had run its course.
My YouTube channel has some videos showing the 2021 escapades but I don't have the time for it anymore, so that has also been shelved.
I've since bought a mk2 astra shell and built a 230bhp forged xe engine and built f20 box. It all just needs putting together.
Thanks for al the feedback over this thread. I'll leave all the photos and pics in place, unless photobucker decides to clear them out itself
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